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Thread: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

  1. #101
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    Paul George is even worse than JJ is.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    If we make a trade with Orlando, I want E.Moore coming back our way. Whenever Orlando gives him playing time he has played very good.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yeah but if he was as garbage as many of you think shouldn't anybody on the Pacers be able to stop this garbage player? I mean if Hibbert ever averages 20 and 10 against anybody on a series many here would be ready to name him the best center to ever play in a Pacers uniform right? hell Roy Hibbert was not even able to average 20 and 10 against this "garbage defender" called Glen Davis.

    And if Roy averages 20 and 10 and some coach comes up and tell us that that was the strategy how many here are going to listen to that? by the way is not like Big Baby is averaging way below 20/10 for the year, his average so far is 15 and 7.
    First off, I'll agree with you that Davis is not a garbage defender. But Orlando's entire defensive gameplan was built around packing the middle and letting us shoot from range (which we did). Davis wasn't defending Hibbert 1-on-1, he had a lot of help.

    Hibbert defended Davis with minimal, if any, help. And most of what Davis did to us was long jumpshots that we were willing to give him.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    Paul George is even worse than JJ is.
    You kidding? That was awesome defense by Paul George. Look how badly that shot was off! That's classic Paul George intimidation. And by the way, he put himself in position to get the easy rebound. #PAULSTAR.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Redick makes 6mil. If Orlando will trade him for Green and Tyler, then we've got a deal. Other than that, there's no trades to be had between the two teams.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Look, this discussion of trading Danny is simply not worth continuing before the summer. Until summer, Danny is untradable.

    If I'm another team, I wouldn't look at Danny unless he's healthy the rest of the season. Too much risk. If you trade for a guy that's injured, you're an idiot. End of story.

    If I'm the Pacers, you don't trade Danny unless you're positive that he won't come back from the injury. Until then, he's more valuable to you than to anyone else. And if he's not going to come back from his injury, then nobody's gonna want to trade for him anyway.

    So any trade that includes Danny is gonna be disagreeable to both sides. There's not a fair trade to be had at this point.
    About time I agree with you, that's why I posted the conversation I had with the Orlando guy but it looks like some people didn't see it.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    About time I agree with you, that's why I posted the conversation I had with the Orlando guy but it looks like some people didn't see it.
    Well, we agree that Danny's untradeable. Right now he's a pig in a poke.

    We disagree that Danny for Redick/Davis would be a good trade for the Pacers.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Well, we agree that Danny's untradeable. Right now he's a pig in a poke.

    We disagree that Danny for Redick/Davis would be a good trade for the Pacers.
    A healthy 2006-10 Danny Granger? probably no, an injured untradeable Danny Granger that nobody would trade for(as you said) for that package is an steal for the Pacers and of course Orlando would say hell no!

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A healthy 2006-10 Danny Granger? probably no, an injured untradeable Danny Granger that nobody would trade for(as you said) for that package is an steal for the Pacers and of course Orlando would say hell no!
    But the risk is asymetrical. There's no reason to expect Danny not to recover (plenty of other players have), so the Pacers would be making a bad trade (since they expect him to recover). But if worst comes to worst, Orlando's management would be crucified for trading two core players for a guy with no knees.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A healthy 2006-10 Danny Granger? probably no, an injured untradeable Danny Granger that nobody would trade for(as you said) for that package is an steal for the Pacers and of course Orlando would say hell no!
    I agree that any combo of healthy players is not worth an injured player. Bogut/Ellis is the exception that proves the rule.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    But the risk is asymetrical. There's no reason to expect Danny not to recover (plenty of other players have), so the Pacers would be making a bad trade (since they expect him to recover). But if worst comes to worst, Orlando's management would be crucified for trading two core players for a guy with no knees.
    That's why I think Orlando would be crazy to offer that kind of package for Danny, they have other injured players that would have to be included on a deal for Orlando to even think about it, like I said before I thought I was a homer for even suggesting that kind of deal for an injured Danny I guess I'm not enough of a homer

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    I know race/stereotypes has already been brought up in that Granger hatred thread and I hate to bring it up again, but it really is amazing to see how immediately some people are to assume a white shooting specialist is a defensive liability. People would be amazed to see how much Reddick's game has improved since he came out of college. Much improved passer, and has really expanded his game as a whole.

    Not saying I would necessarily take vznla's trade, but it wasn't nearly as awful as some made it out to be.

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  21. #113
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That's why I think Orlando would be crazy to offer that kind of package for Danny, they have other injured players that would have to be included on a deal for Orlando to even think about it, like I said before I thought I was a homer for even suggesting that kind of deal for an injured Danny I guess I'm not enough of a homer
    When you say "other injured Players" in your post, are you suggesting that Granger himself is still injured and therefore would yield a lower trade value in any trade scenario?
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    I know race/stereotypes has already been brought up in that Granger hatred thread and I hate to bring it up again, but it really is amazing to see how immediately some people are to assume a white shooting specialist is a defensive liability. People would be amazed to see how much Reddick's game has improved since he came out of college. Much improved passer, and has really expanded his game as a whole.

    Not saying I would necessarily take vznla's trade, but it wasn't nearly as awful as some made it out to be.
    I don't think that's it. I think it has more to do with the fact that Reddick was a really awful defender for quite a while. His defensive effort is a recent improvement.
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  23. #115
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    like I said before I thought I was a homer for even suggesting that kind of deal for an injured Danny I guess I'm not enough of a homer
    But you're still not getting my point, I think. You continue to assume what you have since the summer, which is that if Danny comes back at all, it will be as a shell of his former self, and even that former self you've wanted to ship out for years. My point is that the risk of Danny not coming back is much greater for Orlando than it is for us. Any trade will be FAR more dangerous for them than for us.

    Let's say everybody involved agrees that Danny has an 80% chance of coming back at 100%. In that scenario, if you're the Pacers, you're going to hold onto him unless an amazing deal comes along, because he's a known quantity and you know you'll like him if he comes back 100%. If not, you're no worse off than you already are. If you're Orlando, though, that 20% chance of failure on an unknown quantity is prohibitive.

    The trade you proposed is bad for both sides. It's not enough coming to Indiana to make it worthwhile, and there's not enough going to Orlando to mitigate their risk.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Danny+Tyler+Green for Redick+Big Baby+Mcbob works, Redick can replace some of Danny's scoring and he can also bring that ball movement and passing we have been asking for in a long time, Big Baby can replace Tyler(he is averaging 15 and 7).

    Pacers starting unit: Hill, Redick, Paul George, West and Hibbert.
    To do this, Paul George will have to prove that he can handle the offensive burden on road games. 'Till he proves it, we desperately need Danny.

    PS: Big Baby is a much better player than Tyler. Actually, I'd say that Glen is better than Redick at the moment.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    To do this, Paul George will have to prove that he can handle the offensive burden on road games. 'Till he proves it, we desperately need Danny.

    PS: Big Baby is a much better player than Tyler. Actually, I'd say that Glen is better than Redick at the moment.
    You could make the case Davis and Redick are both more efficient scorers of the basketball than the Granger we've seen over the last 3 years. Davis has played very well since being named a starter last year, and I think people forget how important of a piece he was in several of Boston's runs through the playoffs.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Remind me who is the all star again? the time of Danny as the best player has passed, it's time to let it go.
    Wasn't he our best player last year? Wasn't he the one that would take over when we needed him on road games? I love Paul George but he cannot do this on road games yet.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    You could make the case Davis and Redick are both more efficient scorers of the basketball than the Granger we've seen over the last 3 years. Davis has played very well since being named a starter last year, and I think people forget how important of a piece he was in several of Boston's runs through the playoffs.
    Davis is an excellent player. I'd love him here. And Redick is good too. They are both decent starters / excellent bench players. But Granger is more than that. He is the one that would take over and will us to win in road games. He's the player that we're sorely lacking this year on the road. He's the difference between our offense being #29 and #10.

    We need Danny.

    PS: Also, Danny is a much more efficient scorer than Davis. Redick is more efficient in the regular season but Danny is more efficient in the playoffs.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    You could make the case Davis and Redick are both more efficient scorers of the basketball than the Granger we've seen over the last 3 years. Davis has played very well since being named a starter last year, and I think people forget how important of a piece he was in several of Boston's runs through the playoffs.
    People are not forgetting they are just ignoring it.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Yes Big Baby is averaging 15 & 7, guess what Troy Murphy avg. 14 & 12 one year for us to but that doesn't mean I want him back on the team either. Neither play a lick of defense and I'm not sure that Davis is much more physical even though he has the tools to be.
    I agree with the overall meaning of your post but I disagree here. I believe you're selling Davis way short. He plays defense. He is quick enough to cover the PnR and he can use his weight and lower gravity base to defend taller players in the post. He is not a rim protector by any means but he can defend.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I agree with the overall meaning of your post but I disagree here. I believe you're selling Davis way short. He plays defense. He is quick enough to cover the PnR and he can use his weight and lower gravity base to defend taller players in the post. He is not a rim protector by any means but he can defend.
    Would definitely take him over Tyler, that's for sure. But he's definitely more a backup than a starter. In fact, he might be a pretty ideal backup if it wasn't for his salary.

    But he's always been one of those guys with a few screws loose:



    Hungry?

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So Redick is Dunleavy and Big Baby is Troy Murphy, man some people really need to watch other teams ASAP.
    You need to watch other teams closer as well. You're only looking at what things other teams do right and ignore what they do wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I remember getting s*** for suggesting to bring Diaw here, I also remember a poster that rhymes with "tech" telling me that he sucked and was bad on D, I guess I was wrong because the best coach in the NBA is not only playing him but starting him in one of the best teams in the league, yep that horrible player...
    He is not starting him per se. He started him 5 games as a Forward due to injuries and he started him as a Center 7 times when he was resting Duncan or searching for the right fit next to him (and he eventually found it on Splitter). He is not seen as a starter there. He is seen as a bench player and he is averaging 5.8 PPG (on 57.6 FG% and 41.7 3p%), 3.8 RPG and 2.7 APG. He is also part of the Spurs' rebounding problem along with DeJuan Blair. The Spurs brought in Aron Baynes to help alleviate this problem.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Would definitely take him over Tyler, that's for sure. But he's definitely more a backup than a starter. In fact, he might be a pretty ideal backup if it wasn't for his salary.
    I consider him a borderline starter. He can play, he hustles and he has heart. But I agree that his contract is prohibitive for a player coming off the bench.
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Dude averages as many assists as our starting point guard in similar minutes.
    But he also plays in a system in which the SG facilitates a lot on set plays (remember, they run the Spurs playbook) and in a team that is very happy to shoot the moment they receive the ball.

    He does not play with post players nor is he supposed to make an entry pass and go sit in a corner.
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