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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    The only thing about the loss, well other than the fact that it is a loss, is that the Nets & Bulls keep winning. We have such a small margin of error for home court playoff positioning that almost any loss is devastating.

    However we have to balance that with the fact that early on in the season we were just happy to even be talking about the playoffs.

    Like I said hardly the end of the world, they had lost 6 in a row and I’m certain they didn’t want to lose a 7th. They got big games from their stars and their role players showed up and even their bench scored 3 more points this game than they average.

    They had some help though, I thought Lance had a pretty pedestrian game and seemed to let fouls take him mentally out of the game. Paul also got into foul trouble early and I don’t think he had his best game of the season either. Don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining about him because he’s had a great year to date but I just didn’t feel this was one of his better games.

    I think we made a mistake in not trying to go to Roy more often in the post, 10 shot attempts just didn’t feel right tonight. I’m not always in favor of going there but it just seemed that when he was able to establish post position good things happened.

    Tonight is just going to be bullet point style:

    • Too many three point shots. 23 attempts were just too many. There is a reason why that shot is almost always open, its low % and often leads to transition baskets by the opposition.
    • Too few free throw attempts which just tells me we were shooting too many three point shots and perimeter jumpers. Only Mahinmi & West drew fouls going to the basket on more than one occasion tonight.
    • What in the name of God made Frank think that DJ Augustin could guard Lillard for any length of time? I’m all for benching Green but not at the expense of seeing DJ on the floor for nearly 20 min. While his shooting is improved his defense is still abysmal.
    • In fairness to DJ tonight Hill’s on ball defense appeared to best be described as “man with swivel on neck” as he watched Lillard advance to wherever he wanted to on the floor.
    • J.J. Hickson could have been gotten for a song and a dance last year, now you couldn’t get him without giving up at least a mid first round pick and a decent player. I was screaming last year to do anything we could to get him but that ship has sailed now.
    • I love Mahinmi but man he fouls a lot.
    • I really need to go back and look at all of those charging fouls that were called on us because either we are both the dumbest/strongest team in the league or there were a couple of flops. I mean the Portland players would routinely fly 4-5’ back after contact, I’m not sure if they weren’t fouled but that just seems fishy.
    • At the end of the day the problem was they had a big man who could routinely hit that outside jumper thus taking Roy away from the basket yet Roy couldn’t get out there fast enough. I’m not that worried because in the long term scheme of things most players will miss more than they make of those and he was just on fire tonight.
    • The Jazz will be out for blood but I don’t think they have anyone like Aldridge to take us out of our game. It will be tough though.
    • We need Danny


    I hate this song but I think we all need to suffer together as a bonding measure.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • J.J. Hickson could have been gotten for a song and a dance last year, now you couldn’t get him without giving up at least a mid first round pick and a decent player. I was screaming last year to do anything we could to get him but that ship has sailed now.
    He blew up countless offensive rebounding opportunities for us tonight. He has a combination of hand dexterity and strength that is rare in the NBA. He was very good at moving our bigs out of rebounding position, which normally doesn't happen routinely without fouling us. And when the ball came down and he was near it, he caught and secured it very well. A lot of our offensive rebounds come from Hibbert or Hansbrough blowing up the middle of the lane or having one of our many long armed players get hands on balls that aren't caught securely. Those weren't available for us tonight.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Batum flopped on 2 of the charges he got on Paul

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    I was there tonight for my first pacer game! Portland just killed us with the mid range jumper they were shooting nearly 60% the whole game.. sometimes it goes that way but it sure did feel like we were getting all the ticky tack fouls for sure.. our team just doesnt know how to hit an open shot to save our lives! All in all it was a fun game even tho we lost i got to high five just about all our guys even tho they all looked hella pissed lol

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    George Hill's fastbreak wasn't a charge either. Quite a few bad charges called.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Child Of Scorn MnvrChvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    I was there tonight for my first pacer game! Portland just killed us with the mid range jumper they were shooting nearly 60% the whole game.. sometimes it goes that way but it sure did feel like we were getting all the ticky tack fouls for sure.. our team just doesnt know how to hit an open shot to save our lives! All in all it was a fun game even tho we lost i got to high five just about all our guys even tho they all looked hella pissed lol
    Was that you that they showed on TV? They said the guy was a lifelong Pacer fan, but this was his first game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I hate this song but I think we all need to suffer together as a bonding measure.
    Watching the game was enough suffering. No need for the further punishment.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Worst Odd Thoughts post ever Peck. I have that stupid song running through my head all day now. And I didn't even listen to it and it still is ringing around in there
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-24-2013 at 10:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    I didn't watch the game; I honestly thought it would be a loss. The are multiple teams we do not matchup well with, and Portland is among the worst. I'd love to have J.J. Hickson, I too hoped the Pacers might trade for him during his miserable run with the Kings. What a shame. Portland has something special developing.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Worst Add Thoughts post ever Peck. I have that stupid song running through my head all day now. And I didn't even listen to it and it still is ringing around in there
    Whoap Whoap Whoap
    Opa GANGNAM STYLE

    Fixed?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    They had some help though, I thought Lance had a pretty pedestrian game and seemed to let fouls take him mentally out of the game.

    I think we made a mistake in not trying to go to Roy more often in the post, 10 shot attempts just didn’t feel right tonight.

    Too many three point shots. 23 attempts were just too many. There is a reason why that shot is almost always open, its low % and often leads to transition baskets by the opposition.

    Too few free throw attempts

    In fairness to DJ tonight Hill’s on ball defense appeared to best be described as “man with swivel on neck” as he watched Lillard advance to wherever he wanted to on the floor.

    J.J. Hickson could have been gotten for a song and a dance last year, now you couldn’t get him without giving up at least a mid first round pick and a decent player. I was screaming last year to do anything we could to get him but that ship has sailed now.

    40 min of Lance was ridiculous. That's Vogel's fault. To me Lance was never in this game from the git go. I kept saying to play OJ more. There game end stats weren't that much difference when OJ played 29 min less than Lance.

    Hibbert should have been more of the focal point of the scoring. Vogel to blame.

    You live by the 3 and die by the 3. I've said all year the Pacers shoot too many 3's and as a team have poor mid-range shooting

    The Pacers aren't doing the things necessary to get to the line. They haven't been all year.

    I have never seen where Hill's "D" is as great as so many posters think it is. He's average at best.

    On JJ, you are preaching to the choir here. I was livid when Wells said the Pacers weren't interested in JJ last year. What the hell was Bird thinking? Blunder personified!!!!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    He blew up countless offensive rebounding opportunities for us tonight. He has a combination of hand dexterity and strength that is rare in the NBA. He was very good at moving our bigs out of rebounding position, which normally doesn't happen routinely without fouling us. And when the ball came down and he was near it, he caught and secured it very well. A lot of our offensive rebounds come from Hibbert or Hansbrough blowing up the middle of the lane or having one of our many long armed players get hands on balls that aren't caught securely. Those weren't available for us tonight.
    The problem Hickson had in the past was he didnt like that type of role. It wasn't until he was cut by the Kings that he finally bought in to being a garbage man who doesn't need a play called for him. That is always an issue for guys who are use to being the man in college and HS a lot of them refuse there NBA roles because they think they are better than just being a rebounder. His game truly changed last year after he was cut. Dude was awful in Sacramento I am really happy for the guy that he has found his niche. I love Tony Mitchell out of NT but I fear he may be like Hickson early in his career may refuse to be that garbage man even though he has the skill set to be an elite garbage guy. However he is more skilled than Hickson off the bounce but Tont Mitchell can really board if he buys in at the NBA level he will be special. That is why pre draft interviews are so important to really figure out if the kid wants to win. Guys like Lance Stephenson and Kenny Faried who said pre draft felt they would be all stars is fine because at the end of the day they both play team basketball and really want to win above all.


    About Kenny Faried he thoutgh he had a promise from Portland pre draft. Got me thinking how scary would Portland be with a Big rotation of Aldridge, Faried ,Hickson. Talk about a front line no body wants to play that team would be a scary team in the playoffs

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    I don't like the idea of force feeding Hibbert, to start the game. I thought the other 5 guys stood around and watched. They just always seem to really struggle when Roy is featured early on.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Some things I noticed from last nights game...

    We are WAYYYYY too content to settle for the first available open 3. I lost count of how many times we threw it up after a single pass and sometimes even less. Hill and Augustin are the worst offenders, but PG was doing it too....Luckily for us, PG was hitting some of those quick triggered shots...

    When the team started getting fouls called against them, our "smash mouth" style turned more into a game of "grab-a$$". Guys were too timid, and understandably so, because they were scared of taking on more fouls, but you still have to play your game....You've gotta stick with what you do best.

    Roy and West were having issues rebounding....I don't remember who the culprit was, but one of the Blazers seemed to be headhunting rebounds. We would get our hands on it, in a lackadaisical sense almost like we were playing at the Boys and Girls club and once your team touches the ball the other team must retreat....I seem to remember countless times that we had a rebound that was stripped away from our bigs....Just gotta control and protect that ball better....

    All in all, there was a lot of frustration on the court last night. Players weren't getting into their grooves, didn't show up to play, got intimidated by all the foul calls....I'm not sure, but it looked like a totally different team out there. Maybe you can argue about the time zone or the jet lag coming into play, but bottom line is that they showed up to play, and we didn't....Not to mention the Blazers couldn't miss a damn shot....They were hitting some of the most ridiculous shots I have seen in a while...Even with Roy's big ole hand in their face....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Bad game last night. Only watched the first half due to the late start, but it was enough. I feel tat Portland is a bit like Atlanta, just not a team we match up well with for some reason.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    Was that you that they showed on TV? They said the guy was a lifelong Pacer fan, but this was his first game.
    I think so, i was sitting right next to brooke olzendam and we talked for a sec then the next time she reported something she cam back and said i was on air... anyone know where i could view this at?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hibbert should have been more of the focal point of the scoring. Vogel to blame.

    Hard to blame Vogel for all of the passes that our wing players threw at his and West's ankles. West and Hibbert made some great catches and the play went down as a missed shot instead of a turnover. But the breakdown occurred with some awful passing by Lance and Paul. Hibbert was in good position quite a bit and this team regressed to its in ability to make an appropriate post-entry pass. That was uglier than even the bad block-charge calls, so no point in blaming the officials for being bad when our perimter players were even worse.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Every Rose (Garden) has it thorns

    I think Portland just ran circles around us with their speed. The quick three attempts by our guys didn't do our transition defense any favors. We didn't shoot very well, and any would be easy baskets we were going to get, Portland baited us into offensive fouls/flops. This game was over pretty early by the tempo and how we were playing.

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