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Thread: Pacers Blazers post game

  1. #51

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    To be fair, Hill isn't exactly a point guard.

    Bird thought differently.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    But it's 3 hours difference from here, and it doesn't change the fact that they have to flip their daily routine 9 hours in a span of 2 days.

    I didn't say it was a schedule loss, I was saying it provided a fatigue difficulty that resulted in slow reactions most of the game on defense. There are no such things as schedule losses.

    Does your explaination mean I should expect losses the next 2 games due to player fatigue and their daily rountines messed up as well?

    Why don't we call it what it was... a poorly played game and quit looking for excuses to justify the loss.

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  4. #53

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    This team has no clue how to run a fast break. Hill had the ball on a 3-4 to 1 fastbreak, and I knew he wouldn't give it up. This is the 8 mil PG who is suppose to be spreading the ball around and helping others be better players. Sorry, but 4 asts a game doesn't cut it for me from a starting PG. There are reserve PG's averaging more asts than Hill in less PT. I watch games where Paul gets more asts than Hill does. I want more at PG than a scoring PG who likes to shoot 3's and plays average "D". I like Hill's toughness, but it doesn't make up for his liabilites as a PG. I'm not saying I don't like him as a player for the Pacers, but not as the starting PG for the Pacers..

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  6. #54

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Bird thought differently.
    And Bird was flat out wrong, IMO. Hill struggles to run an offense, and just lacks the understanding, decision making, and passing ability to be a starting point guard, and our offense has been at the bottom of the league in efficiency as a result.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Bird thought differently.
    Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how you want to phrase the question, really. I highly doubt he would insist Hill is a traditional/natural point guard, but I'm sure he did feel like Hill could successfully be play at the position (as a player who is more of a general guard or a combo guard) for reasons other than being a traditional/natural point guard.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Blazers are a young and quick team while the Pacers are slow on the front court, teams like the Blazers would always be the Pacers weakness, the bad news is that they are playing two similar teams in the next two games.
    This. Portland's speed gave us fits, particularly in the frontcourt. They changed the tempo of the game and got a lot of easy baskets because of it.

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    My main thought on the game have to do with our supporting players scoring. How can guys like Lance play 40 minutes and only have two points? I understand what he does for ball movement and such but that is beyond ridiculous. West and PG put up adequate pt totals to win put Lance and most of the bench did not imo.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Personally I don't think Vogels wing system is dependent on a strong facilitating PG. All your wing plays need to have a mix of passing, shooting and driving. Bird did not bring Hill in to run an offense, he brought him in, and I quote, "..for his incredible length." Go watch his press conference after the trade. He was brought in to lock down opposing PGs, which he hasn't done lately, but I have seen him hassle them on a consistent bases.

    Quick point guards and quick forwards that can shoot the mid range jumper is a real weakness in this team. Dwest struggles keeping up with them on defense but it really causes him to start gasping on offense. Personally I would put Ian on him, hopefully his quickness and length bothers them (something Quinn and I agree on).
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Lance played 40mins in a 20pt loss, and had a -4 +/-. I'm not sure why he's the focus here.

    EDIT: Yes, I understand the limitations of the stat.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-24-2013 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Lance played 40mins in a 20pt loss, and had a -4 +/-. I'm not sure why he's the focus here.
    I feel like the other 8 minutes was probably DJ with Hill lineups.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I feel like that's happening more and more often. If he's not getting a lot of pass deflections, Hill has kind of turned into a lazy defensive player this year. He is routinely getting beaten on the defensive end, which is far different than his game last year.
    I wonder about his hip. Is it actually healed? Has he really gotten lazy or is he having trouble changing directions and dealing with his hips being constantly banged into by screens?
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    I wonder about his hip. Is it actually healed? Has he really gotten lazy or is he having trouble changing directions and dealing with his hips being constantly banged into by screens?
    He was playing for a contract last year, plus he wasn't playing good defense until later in the season. He was getting owned by Nelson and DC bailed us out the rest of that series. Hill doesn't have the lateral quickness to deal with quick guards. I do expect him to step it up when it starts to matter, at least he better.
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Did you intend to post this in green?

    I am often the first one to accept and understand with the NBA schedule some nights the schedule (not the opponent) is going to beat you, but that was not the case against the Blazers at all. An early afternoon game and then a 10:00 PM game sjhould make it much easier to adjust.

    No, this game was a case where the Blazers played really, really well, and the Pacers weren't very interested until it was way too late
    I was making an observation based on my own experiences of being active at different times of the day. When you're messing with sleeping times, travel, and exercise, that can be a pretty big swing even if it may seem it's an easy switch. As I felt when I posted it, I don't feel like that caused us to lose by 20 points, but I do think it affected our team's ability to react on defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Does your explaination mean I should expect losses the next 2 games due to player fatigue and their daily rountines messed up as well?

    Why don't we call it what it was... a poorly played game and quit looking for excuses to justify the loss.
    No thank you, because I don't believe that what I said was an "excuse." I only make excuses for myself It's an observation from me about what I think was going on, and i stand by it. You are welcome to disagree, but please don't just tell me i am wrong and try to ridicule me.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    He was playing for a contract last year, plus he wasn't playing good defense until later in the season. He was getting owned by Nelson and DC bailed us out the rest of that series. Hill doesn't have the lateral quickness to deal with quick guards. I do expect him to step it up when it starts to matter, at least he better.
    I thought even among quick guards, Jameer was a bit of an anomaly for Hill last year. He absolutely destroyed Hill. I personally think he's just devoting more energy to offense this season along with increased minutes. Maybe he's just tired, and letting him switch back and forth a bit guarding the 1 and 2 guards would help him a bit when we get to the fourth quarter.

  19. #65

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    This team has no clue how to run a fast break. Hill had the ball on a 3-4 to 1 fastbreak, and I knew he wouldn't give it up. This is the 8 mil PG who is suppose to be spreading the ball around and helping others be better players. Sorry, but 4 asts a game doesn't cut it for me from a starting PG. There are reserve PG's averaging more asts than Hill in less PT. I watch games where Paul gets more asts than Hill does. I want more at PG than a scoring PG who likes to shoot 3's and plays average "D". I like Hill's toughness, but it doesn't make up for his liabilites as a PG. I'm not saying I don't like him as a player for the Pacers, but not as the starting PG for the Pacers..
    I hear that! It was a 4-on-1 fast break. The same kind DC refused to give the ball up on last year and the year before. Makes me wonder if it's the players or the coach. Lance is the only guy who looks for other guys on the break or cutting to the basket, which is part of why we're probably (I'm throwing this out here without any research) dead last in the NBA in alley oops, despite having some high flyers in George, Green and Mahinmi (and Plumlee, not that he plays).

    With that said, Hill has still been solid. His biggest problem is he's always hurt, sick or recovering from being hurt or sick. I think the break will help him a lot. Not worried about his assists so much, because PG is probably going to be over 4 APG by the end of the season, so the system is allowing for other guys to make plays.

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  21. #66

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    No thank you, because I don't believe that what I said was an "excuse." I only make excuses for myself It's an observation from me about what I think was going on, and i stand by it. You are welcome to disagree, but please don't just tell me i am wrong and try to ridicule me.

    Sounded like an excuse to me, and that's why I made the reply saying so.

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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    This team has no clue how to run a fast break. Hill had the ball on a 3-4 to 1 fastbreak, and I knew he wouldn't give it up.
    I understand keeping the ball when it could go either way, so avoid the pass/turnover and head straight to the hoop. But when it's 3 or 4 on 1 and the pass is so obvious, George Hill needs to give it up. Pitiful and maddening.
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  24. #68
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Why did Lance play 40 minutes?
    There are some weird things going on with Lance, it seems.

    First of all, it appears he has gained a lot of Vogel's trust. I see Lance extremely focused on the defensive end and being the person on the team most willing to make the easy pass, the quick pass, the simple pass that provides no accolades. DJ and Hill don't seem to be willing to make this pass.

    On offense, Lance seems to be the last person to get the ball on the perimeter to initiate the offense. First, it's Hill and Paul. Then it's DJ, even when Lance is playing with him. And when OJ was in there, Hill came his way to run plays more than to Lance's side.

    I'm not saying it's a grudge against Lance (although it might be), but it also seems Lance has lost a little initiative in trying to get the ball on the perimeter to initiate the offense. He's focused on defense and getting guys the ball--primarily Paul and West, and giving guys like DJ great looks on the perimeter. And this attitude seems to be earning him large amounts of minutes.

    I almost wonder if Vogel has been telling him his time will come when Danny starts again and Lance will be called upon to initiate a lot of offense for the second unit. Until then, Lance is content to play a role that fans don't notice but coaches appreciate.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 01-24-2013 at 08:41 PM.
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  25. #69

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    lance is a lot faster then i thought, he needs to sprint up court a lot more when he gets the ball after the rebound or outlet, every time he did it last game it really caused problems for the blazers

  26. #70
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Question - when do you get to have "reasons" for losing instead of "excuses"?

    Is it just that anything other than "we sucked" is an excuse?
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    I was thinking that it's more of an advantage of every western team when the east visits. I think it contributes to the west having a good record against the east in general.

  29. #72
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I was going to say something about that in my original post too, but I back spaced it off. I didn't want to upset the born ready lovers here. Glad to see you mentioning it.
    I'm not mentioning anything. I really don't know; it's an honest question. I appreciated McKeyfan's post. If you've got thoughts to bring to the table, then go for it.

    I didn't see the game, but to see a guy play so many more minutes than usual, I'd expect to see from the stats that he was killing it. It doesn't look like Lance was killing it. So why refuse to take him off the floor?
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  30. #73

    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I'm not mentioning anything. I really don't know; it's an honest question. I appreciated McKeyfan's post. If you've got thoughts to bring to the table, then go for it.

    I didn't see the game, but to see a guy play so many more minutes than usual, I'd expect to see from the stats that he was killing it. It doesn't look like Lance was killing it. So why refuse to take him off the floor?
    It's a combination of a few things. The Pacers ran out of wings as they weren't planning to play Green in this game and have no trust in McGuire. Paul got 2 fouls in the first quarter and 3 in the first half so a few of his first half minutes went to Lance instead. And whether because of the deficit or his recent entry into the rotation, they didn't trust Orlando to play in the 2nd half much (only 3 of his 11 minutes were in the second half). I don't think they intended to play Lance 40 minutes, but the game situation/status of the other wings just ended up leaving him out there quite a bit.

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  32. #74
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    Default Re: Pacers Blazers post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    It's a combination of a few things. The Pacers ran out of wings as they weren't planning to play Green in this game and have no trust in McGuire. Paul got 2 fouls in the first quarter and 3 in the first half so a few of his first half minutes went to Lance instead. And whether because of the deficit or his recent entry into the rotation, they didn't trust Orlando to play in the 2nd half much (only 3 of his 11 minutes were in the second half). I don't think they intended to play Lance 40 minutes, but the game situation/status of the other wings just ended up leaving him out there quite a bit.
    Also, people can poo poo the plus/minus stat, but every time Lance came out, we immediately started getting further behind. Vogel kept sticking him back in to try and stop the bleeding.
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