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Thread: Let's talk about something else

  1. #1
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Let's talk about something else

    Pick your favorite all-time, all-Pacers team (can include ABA guys).

    As of right now, my team would be:

    PG - Jackson; Tinsley; [Vern, Don Buse, or Freddie Lewis for "12th man"]
    SG - Reggie; Rah-jah (up until just a season or two ago, I still had Roger starting)
    SF - Chuck; Billy Knight; Netolicky (IMO, Chuck is NOT negotiable)
    PF - JO; Big Mac (duh)
    C - Mel; Rik (even more obvious)

    Even though he was only here two seasons, I think Byron Scott deserves consideration. However, Alex English, although he turned into a great, great player, wasn't here long enough to include.

    Anybody else want to throw a team out there for discussion?


    And just for the fun of it, an all-time worst team, consisting of regular/ rotation players (not just the worst end-of-bench scrubs, that's too easy):

    PG - Pooh; Travis
    SG - Stansberry; McCloud
    SF - Bender; Kellogg (although many you will disagree based on Clark's ability to put up 20/10.)
    PF - Herb, Waymon
    C - Oh my goodness, we could probably name twelve guys right here, forget the other positions. Tom Owens. Granville Waiters. Stuart Grey. Truthfully, James Edwards sucked and was a foul-prone klutz when he was with the Pacers. Dwayne Schintzius, except for one game in Orlando when Rik was suspended. Greg Dreiling (although personally, I liked Greg). Jon Tabak. Pollard. Truthfully, just about every C that ever played for the Pacers not named Daniels, Smits, Stipanovich, Miller or, hopefully, Harrison.

    Well, have fun... this could keep our minds off of other stuff for a while. Or fade quickly into "no reply" obscurity.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #2
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Assume all players are in their prime (whether that's in the past or in the future)

    Tinsley
    Miller
    Artest (ONLY we hire a Shaman to destroy his demons, if not, I'll go with Person)
    O'Neal
    Daniels

  3. #3
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Jackson I
    Miller I
    Rose (sorry but the shaman tried and failed on Ronnie)
    O'Neal
    Miller II

    Laugh all you want, I can take it.

  4. #4
    recap
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Favortie Team of Pacers (not based on ability to score the ball or actually beat anyone):

    Workman
    Reggie
    Artest
    Dale Davis
    Jeff Foster


    Team I would least like to watch:

    pg - Jalen Rose or Travis Best
    sg - Jalen Rose
    sf - Jalen Rose
    pf - Jalen Rose
    c - Tabak

  5. #5
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by recap
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    pg - Jalen Rose or Travis Best
    sg - Jalen Rose
    sf - Jalen Rose
    pf - Jalen Rose
    c - Tabak
    Thanks, now I'm gonna have nightmares tonight. Just great.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  6. #6
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    pg Tinsley, Jackson, Haywood (yes he was a terrible pg but I loved his hustle)

    sg Miller, Sealy, Freddie

    sf Ronnie, Jalen (come on he did play D when Larry was here) Mullin

    pf Dale, Jermaine,

    C Miller, Foster, Cro, Antonio

  7. #7
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    My all time favorite starting 5. By position.

    Best
    Reggie
    Artest
    Dale Davis
    J.O.

    Coming off the bench has to be Foster, McKey and Haywood Workman

  8. #8
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    My all time favorite starting 5. By position.

    Best
    I'm sorry, you've already lost me. Did you say something else?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  9. #9
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I'm sorry, you've already lost me. Did you say something else?

    I would like to say I put Best on my all time favorite Pacers team very proudly, but I was a little hesitant. I do like Travis, but it is more of a case I was not a huge fan of Jackson, and I like Tinsley much better thna I used to , but Not as much as Travis.

    To be honest Jay, I was not on any Pacers forum until October of 2000 Isiah's first season but when I started reading at posting I was shocked, absolutely shocked at how many fans did not like Travis.

    But if I had to list my 10 alltime favorite pacers regardless of position, Travis might be 9th or 10th.

    I really wanted McKey and Foster on the starting 5, but I just could not bump Dale or Artest.

  10. #10
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Tinsley
    Miller
    Irrelevant
    JO/Big Mac
    Harrison!
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  11. #11
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Just going on favorites here & not ability.

    PG- Haywood Workman
    SG- Billy Knight
    SF- Clark Kellogg
    PF- Dale Davis
    C- Brad Miller

    Bench

    PG- Mark Jackson
    SG- Reggie Miller
    SF- Kenny Williams
    PF- Jermaine O'Neal/Darnell Hillman tie
    C- David Harrison (Man we have really been weak at the center spot)

  12. #12
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Just going on favorites here & not ability.

    PG- Haywood Workman
    SG- Billy Knight
    SF- Clark Kellogg
    PF- Dale Davis
    C- Brad Miller

    Bench

    PG- Mark Jackson
    SG- Reggie Miller
    SF- Kenny Williams
    PF- Jermaine O'Neal/Darnell Hillman tie
    C- David Harrison (Man we have really been weak at the center spot)
    Reggie Miller on the bench? You !


  13. #13

    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    I've only been watching since the 90's so here is my starters:

    PG- Jackson
    SG- Miller
    SF- Artest
    PF- O'Neal
    C- Smits
    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    I can't believe how little love Smits is getting. Hasn't there been talk among fans about retiring his jersey?

    Detlef deserves 6th man consideration. I'd put him ahead of Rose at least.

    I admit to being a Travis Fan but that was partly because I grew up an ACC basketball fan.

    I only remember the Pacers during the late 80's to present so my apoligies to the ABA era players.

    Tinsly, Travis
    Miller, Scott
    Detlef, Person, Rose
    JO, Dale
    Smits, Foster, La Salle

  15. #15

    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    I must preface this by saying that I became a Pacer fan in 1984, so I don't know the ABA guys...

    PG Tinsley, Fleming
    SG Miller, Rose
    SF Kellogg, McKey
    PF D. Davis, JO
    C Smits, Foster


    Least favorite:

    PG Michael Williams <- The ultimate reason why defensive ability is not measured by steals per game
    SG George McCloud <- Couldn't hit a lick until they moved the 3-point line in.
    SF Mike Sanders <- Billed as the Jordan stopper, problem was they must have been talking about Reggie Jordan
    PF Terry Mills <- Could hit everything against us...nothing for us (career 38% 3-point...for us, 17%)
    C Bruno Sundov <- Half hearted effort in a position that we needed help at badly.

    Honorable Mentions:
    Jerome Allen <- In that horrible year in the 90's, we traded him for Darvin Ham after we got Mark Jackson back. Ham played only 5 minutes as a Pacer, but I still think we got the better end of that deal.
    John Edwards <- It's really soon, but no effort and a complete revulsion towards hitting the boards puts him in my doghouse already.
    Carlos Rogers <- Where did he disappear to after that all-star break anyways?

  16. #16
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Kellogg (although many you will disagree based on Clark's ability to put up 20/10.)
    What made him among the worst? Honest question.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Became a Pacer fan in May of 1991:

    1st team (still my favorite team)

    M. Williams
    R. Miller
    C. Person
    D. Schrempf
    R. Smits


    2nd team (favorite individual players)

    J. Tinsley
    J. Rose
    R. Artest
    J. O'neal
    A. Davis


    3rd team (gotta include these guys)

    V. Fleming
    S. Jackson
    L. Thompson
    D. Davis
    J. Foster


    Last team

    P. Richardson
    B. Scott
    R. Mercer
    S. Mitchell
    S. Perkins

    I pretty much liked Scott and Perkins, but not as Pacers. Nothing against Richardson and Mitchell, I just preferred to keep the guys they replaced. I really, really disliked Mercer, though.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    PG Mark Jackson
    SG Reggie Miller
    SF Derrick McKey
    PF Dale Davis
    C Rik Smits

    Bench

    PG Travis Best
    SG Fred Jones
    SF Ron Artest
    PF JO
    C Sam Perkins

  19. #19
    stipo
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Mark Jackson
    Reggie Miller
    Brad Miller
    Chuck P (his rookie year was unreal) (yes, I was there for his 40 ft. game winner!)
    JO

    bench

    Vern
    Dale
    Steve Stipanovich (started being a big fan the year he was drafted)
    Tinsley
    Smits ( always felt sorry for Rik, never seemed to fit in )
    Artest
    Travis

  20. #20
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    Reggie Miller on the bench? You !

    If I wasn't afraid of being run out on a rail I really wanted to put Ricky Sobers as my second favorite shooting guard, but I knew I'd be in big enough trouble not listing Reggie as # 1.

  21. #21
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Oh, I forgot to put my bottom five up there. Now remember this is not based on ability, this is based on being my least favorite.

    PG- Travis Best
    SG- Butch Carter
    SF- Jalen Rose
    PF- LaSalle Thompson
    C- James Edwards

    Bench

    PG- Vern Fleming (Hard to put him here but I didn't like him as a pg.)
    SG- Dudley Bradley
    SF- Ron Artest
    PF- Mike Bantom
    C- Len Elmore

  22. #22
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Peck, please explain to me how DD can achieve God-like status while Tank and Len Elmore are on your least-favorite list?

    I'm sure there is a good reason, but I see a lot of similarities among all three players.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  23. #23
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Peck, please explain to me how DD can achieve God-like status while Tank and Len Elmore are on your least-favorite list?

    I'm sure there is a good reason, but I see a lot of similarities among all three players.

    Oh God no!!!!!! Tank was the biggest talker & non-doer on the planet earth. He always kept talking about how guys on the team didn't suck it up & play tough basketball & then would go out & grab 4 rebounds in 30 min. of play. He was very very similar to Tony in that regard. He was a crafty defender on occasion but he was such a big guy I always had a problem with how little he controlled the paint area.

    Len on the other hand is a bad choice for me. You said we couldn't pick end of the benchers or trust me I would have gone with John Edwards, Greg Dreiling, Stuart Gray, etc. etc. Everybody but Granville because I actually liked him.

    Len just happened to be the only center I could remember that started for us other than Stipo, Rik.

    I guess I forgot Big Smooth. I wasn't big fan of his, but it wasn't his fault. I liked him as a veteran coming off of the bench on the finals team but I didn't like him as the starter the next season. I guess I have to stick with Elmore.

    Oh Hell, I totally forgot Roby. There, that is now my official backup on the all suck team, Rick Roby.

    Crap my head is totally up my @ss today, I also forgot Tom Owens. He actually will replace James Edwards as the starter on the all suck team & Roby will be his backup.

  24. #24
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Pick your favorite all-time, all-Pacers team (can include ABA guys).

    As of right now, my team would be:

    PG - Jackson; Tinsley; [Vern, Don Buse, or Freddie Lewis for "12th man"]
    SG - Reggie; Rah-jah (up until just a season or two ago, I still had Roger starting)
    SF - Chuck; Billy Knight; Netolicky (IMO, Chuck is NOT negotiable)
    PF - JO; Big Mac (duh)
    C - Mel; Rik (even more obvious)

    And just for the fun of it, an all-time worst team, consisting of regular/ rotation players (not just the worst end-of-bench scrubs, that's too easy):

    PG - Pooh; Travis
    SG - Stansberry; McCloud
    SF - Bender; Kellogg (although many you will disagree based on Clark's ability to put up 20/10.)
    PF - Herb, Waymon
    C - Oh my goodness, we could probably name twelve guys right here, forget the other positions. Tom Owens. Granville Waiters. Stuart Grey. Truthfully, James Edwards sucked and was a foul-prone klutz when he was with the Pacers. Dwayne Schintzius, except for one game in Orlando when Rik was suspended. Greg Dreiling (although personally, I liked Greg). Jon Tabak. Pollard. Truthfully, just about every C that ever played for the Pacers not named Daniels, Smits, Stipanovich, Miller or, hopefully, Harrison.
    I would pretty much go with your favorite team with maybe the exception of Jackson. I know, I know - crucify me. I probably could have moved any of the bracketed players over. If the others had seen Brown play he would have been on everyone's team. Add Workman to the mix as a last minute pick-up. What's not to like about Woody? And as the enforcer I would add George Peeples. He always had Mel's back.

    I was surprised at your pick of Kellogg on the all-worst team. He was a pretty good player until he wrecked his knee. Replace him with Reggie Harding. You remember - the 7-footer who was shot while breaking and entering.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  25. #25
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about something else

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    What made him among the worst? Honest question.
    Primarily the losing. He had the uncanny ability to drop 20 points and grab 11 rebounds while still having absolutely no affect whatsoever on the outcome of the game. He was a stat-sheet stuffer, but not at all like KG or Duncan that stuff the stat sheets while dominating the game. I'm not even sure he was the best player on a bad team, just a guy that could put up big but meaningless numbers.

    He was another guy that I never wanted on the team. He and Herb combined to go 9-9 against the Big Ten. Well, we already had Herb... and since those two allegedly great forwards could only win half thier games in the Big Ten, I was pretty sure they also weren't going to be able to beat NBA-caliber competition on a regular basis.

    Maybe, if we didn't already have Herb, my view on him would be different. But IMO, Clark's knee injury was one of the best things that ever happened to the Pacers, because it allowed Chuck Person to play important minutes as a rookie. Remember, when we drafted him, everybody wanted to ask why we drafted another SF when we already had Clark and some people thought Waymon, who was truly a 6'7" center, would also have to play SF. Clark probably would've put up bigger numbers than Chuck that season, but Chuck lifted a perpetual twenty-odd win team to 0.500. Although it took a few more years for that team to become a perennial playoff team, it all started with the 1986-87 team, the playoff series against Altanta, and the budding Person-Dominique rivalary.

    Lots of others will blame the losing on Clark's teammates, but Fleming, Herb, and Stipanovich were all starters in the 1987 playoffs, and Tisdale was the sixth man.

    Anyway, that's just my opinion of Clark, as a Pacer. I know that many of you will not agree with it but that's cool.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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