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Thread: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I bet it all started innocently enough.

    JO: Hey, Lance I have some ideas on how we could improve the offense.

    Blanks: Oh yeah let's hear them you've been in the league a while you've probably seen a few things.

    JO: Yeah you see I even brought a tape.

    Blanks: A tape? What you didn't have a DVD?

    JO: Well it's from a little while ago.

    *Pops in a tape of the 2006-2007 Indiana Pacers offense which was essentially 4 dudes standing around watching one power forward/"center" shoot 43% from the field*

    JO: So yeah, you see just put me on the low block and let me go to work. I'm dominant.

    Blanks: Are you being serious with me right now or just ****ing with me?

    JO: Serious as a mother ****ing heart attack Lance the Pants.

    Blanks: I'm not going to build the ****ing offense around you.

    *Yet another missed turnaround jumper*

    Blanks: This **** is ****ing horrifying.

    *Highlight of JO hitting a free throw comes on*

    JO: Also, you need to play this song every time I hit a free throw. It's the ****. It goes JAY-OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH I SAY JAAAAAY-OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH

    Blanks: Are you the dumbest mother ****er alive?

    JO: So you like my suggestions?

    *Blanks walks out*

    JO: Man, JO look at you working in the post, you look good baby.
    LOL!!!

    That's some funny **** right there!

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Not to mention he was 2nd or 3rd in MVP voting that one year.

    He earned his contract here, it just really sucks it didn't work out
    He was 3rd in the voting, he was 2nd best on the Pacers when Ronnie was at his best IMO (of course before he - whichever one you want to refer to - completely lost it)

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    At this point, I just don't believe a word that dude says.
    His words are better "spin" moves than his turn around fadeaways ever were.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    JO logged NCAA levels of PT his 4 years in Portland. He wasn't even a bust, he was a high school kid they didn't need right away because they had a crazy deep frontline.

    They were fools to give up on him when they did because he DID NOT IMPROVE his Per36 that first year in Indy (not dramatically at least), he simply played more minutes.

    Regardless, JO's playing time with Portland (458, 808, 310 due to lockout, 859 = 2435) is LESS than West's playing time at Xavier (970, 978, 1094, 1168 = 4210). West played 126 games, JO played 210. So in terms of travel he had more of it, but he was sitting A LOT more per game than West was.

    West has 20491 NBA minutes played, JO has 25951. But that includes all of JO's post-HS minutes. If you add in West's Xavier minutes then he's just behind JO at 24701, which is about half an NBA season worth of play. JO has had injury issues, but West had his own very serious injury which he just recovered from.

    And yet at TJoe points out, even JO of 2-3 years ago didn't look at good as West does right now. And on top of that we've never heard West talk a bunch of nonsense about his own pending domination and we'd all be shocked if a story came out where West was ripping into Vogel or Shaw in an office someplace. Contrast that with JO making news for at least the 2nd time in his career thanks to an over-the-top shouting match with a team authority figure (coach, GM, whatever).

    Good points. I hate being a JO apologist but here I go again. You really cannot compare the minutes and games played that David West and JO have logged in their careers. Seventeen years of professional basketball is a really long time. You can't compare college years with pro years even if he didn't log a lot of minutes in his first 3 seasons. With all the offseason summer leagues, practices, shoot arounds, traveling, and games envolved it just doesn't compare to the NBA. Those first 4 years of JOs career were much harder than David West's 4 years of college ball.

    Secondly, he's had way more injuries than David West. JO's had shoulder surgery, at least 2 knee surgeries (one with the Pacers and one with the Celtics that I could confirm) and left wrist surgery last year. I think the biggest mistake he made was trying to play through that knee injury during the year after the brawl. If he had just had surgery on his knee then instead of trying to play the next year and a half through the injury he might have been more effective. Still 3 years ago, since you brought it up, he averaged 13.6 points, 7.0 rebounds, and 2.0 blocks with the Heat. Those numbers are better than David West's averages from last year.

    Even with all the injuries and baggage, he's a decent backup Center that hasn't missed many games this year due to injury.

    PPG RPG BLKPG PER
    6.4 4.1 1.2 15.62

    Compare that to Ian Mahinmi:

    PPG RPG BLKPG PER
    5.3 3.9 1.0 11.56

    Compared to Tyler Hansbrough:

    PPG RPG BLKPG PER
    6.5 4.1 0.3 14.10

    There's not a lot of difference between those players but I think JO could easily take on Tyler's role alongside Mahinmi and improve our bench defensively. If it doesn't happen, I don't really care but if we swapped JO for Tyler I don't think we'd miss a beat and we might be slightly better.
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 01-23-2013 at 10:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    With all the offseason summer leagues, practices, shoot arounds, traveling, and games envolved it just doesn't compare to the NBA.
    And you think that doesn't happen for college players, or something?

    I would bet that NBA players practice less than college players, because of how many more actual games they play. Basketball is a full time job for college players, and most good high school players. The NBA hardship hasn't really changed all that much. Players are breaking down much easier/faster, not because what they go through in the NBA, but because of what they go through to get to the NBA. AAU is probably the biggest reason for it all, because of how many games you play.

    Playing 6-7 games in a weekend takes a toll on your body, even as a 17year old. I cannot express just how god awful it really is to go through. Playing is the best thing in the world, what comes after is the worst. I'm not even 27 yet, and I crack everytime I get up out of a chair. It really does take a toll.

    West wasn't a big time AAU player, which is probably a reason why he's much healthier later in life. That and no one can question the manner at which he takes care of himself phsyically. You can just look at him and know he treats his body like a temple.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-23-2013 at 10:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    I fall on both sides of the fence.

    I loved JO, and still love what he brought to this franchise. Minus the bickering and the fake tough guy act.

    I will admit, though, I was leary when he traded for JO (and I loved both Davis brothers, though I like Antonio more then Dale back then) and I can understand where people did not have a lot of confidence in his game.

    That said, and as much as Peck does not want to admit it happened, JO had an AMAZING year the year he was in MVP contention, and he finished the year off showing the characteristics one would want in a leader by shooting those FT's hoping to come back in the game.

    It is just a shame his contract did not work out, and IMO that is just as much his fauly as it is TPTB

    My .02

  9. #82
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Good points. I hate being a JO apologist but here I go again. You really cannot compare the minutes and games played that David West and JO have logged in their careers. Seventeen years of professional basketball is a really long time. You can't compare college years with pro years even if he didn't log a lot of minutes in his first 3 seasons. With all the offseason summer leagues, practices, shoot arounds, traveling, and games envolved it just doesn't compare to the NBA. Those first 4 years of JOs career were much harder than David West's 4 years of college ball.

    Secondly, he's had way more injuries than David West. JO's had shoulder surgery, at least 2 knee surgeries (one with the Pacers and one with the Celtics that I could confirm) and left wrist surgery last year. I think the biggest mistake he made was trying to play through that knee injury during the year after the brawl. If he had just had surgery on his knee then instead of trying to play the next year and a half through the injury he might have been more effective. Still 3 years ago, since you brought it up, he averaged 13.6 points, 7.0 rebounds, and 2.0 blocks with the Heat. Those numbers are better than David West's averages from last year.

    Even with all the injuries and baggage, he's a decent backup Center that hasn't missed many games this year due to injury.

    PPG RPG BLKPG PER
    6.4 4.1 1.2 15.62

    Compare that to Ian Mahinmi:

    PPG RPG BLKPG PER
    5.3 3.9 1.0 11.56

    Compared to Tyler Hansbrough:

    PPG RPG BLKPG PER
    6.5 4.1 0.3 14.10

    There's not a lot of difference between those players but I think JO could easily take on Tyler's role alongside Mahinmi and improve our bench defensively. If it doesn't happen, I don't really care but if we swapped JO for Tyler I don't think we'd miss a beat and we might be slightly better.
    It's a moot point regardless. JO's knee woes had more to do with genetics and less about supposed "mileage". Just like in the case of Brandon Roy, Jonathan Bender, Chris Webber, etc.

    West had his own knee problem but that was because of a bad physical injury, not because of developing scar tissue/drainage or degenerative knees.

    I mean using that logic, David Ortiz kept himself in better shape than Don Mattingly, different sport but still.
    Last edited by PR07; 01-23-2013 at 01:25 PM.

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  11. #83
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    It's a moot point regardless. JO's knee woes had more to do with genetics and less about supposed "mileage". Just like in the case of Brandon Roy, Jonathan Bender, Chris Webber, etc.

    West had his own knee problem but that was because of a bad physical injury, not because of developing scar tissue/drainage or degenerative knees.

    I mean using that logic, David Ortiz kept himself in better shape than Don Mattingly, different sport but still.
    Good points. A lot of people don't recognize that about him. I've never seen a man his size with such skinny legs. He has legs like Hakkim Warwick and an upper body like Kendrick Perkins. He put on weight so that he could play Center and it really hurt him in the long haul. I'm always haunted by the thought of whether or not if the Pacers had kept Brad Miller things would've been different for JO. Oh well, you can't live off of what ifs.

    Regarding the dust up in Phoenix... it looks like several people are upset with the Alvin Gentry firing and hiring of Lindsey Hunter. Dan Majerle and Elston Turner both left the team unannounced after Lindsey Hunter was hired. They literally stopped coming to practice. It seems there are several people upset with the "mutual" split with Gentry and with the GM Lance Blanks.

    Blanks chose Hunter over Suns assistants Dan Majerle and Elston Turner, among others. Neither Majerle nor Turner showed up for any of the practices since Hunter was hired. Majerle, a former Suns star player and one of the most popular sports figures in the Phoenix area, has let it be known he won't be back. Turner is a highly-respected assistant who has interviewed for at least four NBA head coaching jobs, including the one in Phoenix when Mike D'Antoni left for the New York Knicks. Turner almost certainly has left his Suns job for good, too.

    After practice on Tuesday, Hunter said he wasn't sure of the status of Majerle and Turner but he certainly spoke as if he knew they wouldn't be rejoining the team.

    "I understand their situation,'' Hunter said. "As an aspiring coach this is what you want to do in life and it's disappointing when you don't get an opportunity. I definitely understand and my heart goes out to both of those guys and I wish them the best in whatever they do next.''

    Igor Kokoskov, a Suns assistant who also was interviewed for the interim job, will be Hunter's lead assistant.

    "He's more of the opposite of me. He's an offensive guy,'' Hunter said. "We need those guys, unfortunately, in basketball. You need an offensive guy. I'm a defensive guy. So it's sort of balanced.''

    Other than that, Hunter wasn't sure which of the remaining personnel would be on the bench as assistant coaches in Sacramento.

    "We're just trying to get some stability and find out what's what,'' Hunter said, "and all of those things will be hashed out.''

    Phoenix also didn't have center Jermaine O'Neal in practice on Wednesday. Hunter said he didn't' know why, but that it was a medical condition. It's common knowledge that O'Neal didn't think much of the coaching change.

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...#ixzz2IpXsjEXD

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  13. #84
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Jermaine was never the same after he had to bulk up and play center. His knees couldn't take it. Its ashame because he was such a great player before the injuries. I still have my JO jersey and will never get rid of it. He's my second favorite Pacer of all time behind Reggie.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Let me apologize to the Jermaine O'Neal fan base. I really try to avoid talking about him & often times I fail but I will try harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I just have no use for what he did here behind the scenes and his online twitter statement this evening about it not being his job are just to much for me to read.
    Enjoyed that. Your resolution lasted somewhere between a half second and a millisecond.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  16. #86
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Let me say this... Even if JO could help the bench, and that is a BIG, BIG IF, I see him doing nothing but hurting the lockerroom. He's gone and we are better for it IMHO.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Surprised Peck did not ban me for what I said in my last post

    FWIW, if JO comes back I hope it is on a one day contract (does the NBA even do that?) and retires.

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