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Thread: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Durability is a big reason why Garnett will go down as one of the greatest ever. I'm just saying that you can't compare JO to a guy who has 7 less years of miles on him.
    I just think it's clear that JO never managed his weight well once he decided to "bulk up". His muscle toned was never defined after that. He didn't do a great job taking care of his body IMO

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I just think it's clear that JO never managed his weight well once he decided to "bulk up". His muscle toned was never defined after that. He didn't do a great job taking care of his body IMO
    I think he had balky knees which affected his ability to condition and at a pretty early age in his late twenties. I don't think that's necessarily on him, some guys just develop scar tissue and have to have constant knee drainings.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Has to wait a full year to trade him according to the amnesty rules. He will likely be dealt in the off season IMO.


    I would take JO back in a heart beat if they cut him he looks healthy this year.
    Any link?

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I think he had balky knees which affected his ability to condition and at a pretty early age in his late twenties. I don't think that's necessarily on him, some guys just develop scar tissue and have to have constant knee drainings.
    Nah. There are a number of different ways to shape your body/condition that doesn't take a toll on your knees. Swimming is a great way to do it. (I would recommend all NBA players swim, or just to anyone who wants to get in GREAT shape.)

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    How do you explain how KG has maintained his body vs. JO?

    Better genetics? Better match of body type with what is required based on the rosters they were on?

    JO's never really had a major knee trauma. But he's also never really recovered from the way his knees objected to the bulking up he had to do after Brad Miller got away (avoiding calling it either a trade or not a trade. ). And once they went bad, it all went bad for him. He used to be quick and explosive in the low post, with spin moves and cuts across the paint, not a back-down banger. And defensively was the even bigger difference - he used to play on the weakside and protect the rim/ block shots. Taking on the other team's banger in the post really did him in. Now, he can't really do any of those things.

    Garnett played SF and on the perimeter for the first decade of his career, and while he does play PF/C now, that has to make a difference in the longevity of each of them. JO immediately was a post player in Portland and gained his fame in the post with the Pacers. But a different style of post player than what he's been for the past 8-9 years.

    We dont know how Garnett's body would have survived playing the low post defensively for all those years. The Wolves were smarter about a roster that protected him. We signed Ron Artest to an extension and let Brad Miller get away in one of the worst front office decisions in the history of offices.
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Any link?
    http://valleyofthesuns.com/2012/07/1...money-smarter/


    He can be traded July 1 and cant be traded to the Rockets ever on his contract and yes his contract is now just 3 yrs 13m not the full contract the Rockets gave him.


    That is why I wanted him at the very least he would of been a great trade chip and at the most the best backup in the league on a cheap contract. FO dropped the ball on my man Louis.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    I remember the EXACT moment I read in the Star that we gave JO the huge money. I was at work and I just rolled my eyes and said "you've got to be kidding".

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I remember the EXACT moment I read in the Star that we gave JO the huge money. I was at work and I just rolled my eyes and said "you've got to be kidding".
    Huh?

    As always, there seems to be a creative amount of revisionist history going on here.

    Once he started missing big portions of seasons, I can see the frustration, but this is what he did in the period bracketing when he signed the max contract.

    Age Tm G GS MP FG FGA FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    23 IND 72 72 37.6 7.5 15.7 .479 3.9 5.7 .688 2.6 7.9 10.5 1.6 0.6 2.3 2.4 3.7 19.0
    24 IND 77 76 37.2 7.9 16.4 .484 4.8 6.6 .731 2.6 7.7 10.3 2.0 0.9 2.3 2.3 3.6 20.8
    25 IND 78 78 35.7 7.8 17.9 .434 4.5 5.9 .757 2.5 7.5 10.0 2.1 0.8 2.6 2.3 3.2 20.1
    26 IND 44 41 34.8 8.8 19.4 .452 6.7 8.9 .754 1.9 6.9 8.8 1.9 0.6 2.0 3.0 3.9 24.3

    Three straight years of 72+ games. And a big portion of the games missed in 2004-05 were suspension (15 games), and the late season injury that cost him another 20+ games was the nasty separated shoulder he got in Denver (missing all games from March 3 through April 17). Let's not forget that he shot those FTs left-handed so that he would still be eligible to return to the game. The knee didn't become an issue until 2005-06.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Yeah, any team in the Pacers' position would have given him the max in 2003. You gotta keep 24 year olds who put up 20/10. There's a reason why SA was willing to give him the max.

    It's unfortunate that JO ultimately didn't workout like everyone hoped, but re-signing him was the right move at the time.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Not to me it wasn't. I always thought he was over-rated. No way was he worth 7 years/126 million. I know he had some stat numbers but I still cringe at all those 17 foot fade aways he clunked while he was here. Don't blame the Pacers but that's not what I would have done.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Not to mention he was 2nd or 3rd in MVP voting that one year.

    He earned his contract here, it just really sucks it didn't work out

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Not saying he didn't earn the money. I just never trusted his game. Just one of those things. Same way with Peyton Manning I guess. Sure he more than deserved all that money but deep down I never trusted his game when it mattered the most in the playoffs. I called it again this year and sadly I was right. One reason I wasn't devastated when the Colts moved on.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    IMO ... Bowser has a better shot of a return to the Pacers than Jermaine O'Neal.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    I don't have an issue with the contract we gave JO, he deserved it at the time. I do have an issue with what he did afterward.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    I wasn't hating JO's contract until he was missing so many games. I was always concerned and kinda upset with the Pacers FO for not getting JO a legit Center. I was not upset to see Brad Miller go as I didn't think he was worth the money and Pollard was right down horrible. Putting JO at center and him weight gain was not a smart idea when giving him such a big contract. I almost was on the verge of hating the Pacers FO for this crap. I had a hard time watching them back then and truly felt bad for JO and myself as a fan of the Pacers. I honestly don't know how many times I yelled at that damn FO for JO getting abused in the paint so much. I really felt like it was a crime. I know this may sound extreme, but to me it was wrong to use JO like they did.

    Al Horford is a good example in comparison to JO, except Al doesn't try to carry the team on his back like JO did. Al is a puss compared to JO. But Al is a talented big that should not be playing the center position.
    .

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I would take JO back in a heart beat if they cut him he looks healthy this year.



    Can you say "Chemistry Killer"? In a year where multiple reports talk about just how close and healthy the locker room is for the Pacers compared to years past, and you wanna throw THAT prima donna in to come in and **** everything up, while also not playing 1 single second? **** that noise. Jermaine O'Neal is the antithesis of everything that is Frank Vogel and Smashmouth Basketball.



    Stay away, JO. Stay away.

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  26. #42
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    You can knock JO's 17 foot fade aways all you want but he never shot 40% from the field as Hibbert is , nor did he miss as many point blank put backs. He also averaged very similar block shot numbers to what Roy is this season, plus adding nearing 20 points per game average over a 5 year stretch.

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  28. #43

    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    What exactly would JO do around here? Show off his suits? He's not playing over Mahinmi.
    At this stage, I'd take just about anybody over Hans.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    You can knock JO's 17 foot fade aways all you want but he never shot 40% from the field as Hibbert is , nor did he miss as many point blank put backs. He also averaged very similar block shot numbers to what Roy is this season, plus adding nearing 20 points per game average over a 5 year stretch.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but most of the time JO's FGA were closer to 20 a game right? Where Roy's are probably closer to 10. Twice as many shots equals potentially twice as many points. JO had years where he shot like 43 and 45 percent. What is Hibbert at like 41 percent? Most of the time Hibbert's on the mid to high 40's where JO was. Not as big a difference as people would like to think. I still think JO is better but not near as good as JO himself thought he was. His dominate the NBA type of quotes were laughable.

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    How do you explain how KG has maintained his body vs. JO?
    KG was never asked to drastically alter his body to match up with Centers... JO should have stayed thin and quick... That's the J7 I loved and now miss...

    Worst decision in his career (which included punching a Detroit fan)... His knees don't go out like they did if he didn't bulk up...
    Last edited by J7F; 01-22-2013 at 08:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Forgive me if I'm wrong but most of the time JO's FGA were closer to 20 a game right? Where Roy's are probably closer to 10. Twice as many shots equals potentially twice as many points. JO had years where he shot like 43 and 45 percent. What is Hibbert at like 41 percent? Most of the time Hibbert's on the mid to high 40's where JO was. Not as big a difference as people would like to think. I still think JO is better but not near as good as JO himself thought he was. His dominate the NBA type of quotes were laughable.
    Well he did dominate the NBA for several years. Not much to laugh about there. Sorry you didn't get to see him in action!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Well he did dominate the NBA for several years. Not much to laugh about there. Sorry you didn't get to see him in action!
    I mean dominate the NBA as in be the best player. That's what he meant. How many MVP awards did he win again?

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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I mean dominate the NBA as in be the best player. That's what he meant. How many MVP awards did he win again?
    I think the NBA is comprised of multiple players that Dominate the NBA. I don't think Carl Malone was ever an MVP, yet he Dominated the league. Shaq dominated the league and I think he only won it 1 time. And no doubt JO dominated the league before he succumbed to injuries.

    We have KD, LBJ, Melo and Kobe dominating the league right now don't we?


    Correction thx to CGG ...Malone was a 2 -time MVP. Slipped my mine!
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 01-22-2013 at 09:06 PM.
    .

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  36. #49
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    He's the only NBA Pacers player to ever be in top-3 in MVP voting. You sure you want to go there? I'm pretty sure he's actually the only Pacers NBA player to ever be in the top-10 in MVP voting.

    The 17-fadeaways did not start appearing in his game until 2006-07. Especially under Isiah Thomas, he was never more than 12 feet from the basket. He wasn't out there until the third year under Carlisle, although that NJ series that year is full of horrific memories of JO's ugly 17 foot fadeaway.

    We'd need to double-check Reggie's MVP votes. I know there were about three times that he was on the "also receiving votes" list. JO probably got more votes for MVP over those two seasons than Reggie had MVP votes in his career. Reggie clearly had more longevity, but JO's peak seasons were at such a high level that only Pacers fans would complain about them.

    After 2005-06, definetely overpaid. Up until then? No, he earned and was worth that contract.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  38. #50
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    Default Re: Suns GM and centerJO engaged in a loud, expletive-laced confrontation

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I think the NBA is comprised of multiple players that Dominate the NBA. I don't think Carl Malone was ever an MVP, yet he Dominated the league. Shaq dominated the league and I think he only won it 1 time. And no doubt JO dominated the league before he succumbed to injuries.

    We have KD, LBJ, Melo and Kobe dominating the league right now don't we?
    Karl Malone was MVP twice.

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