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Thread: Peps plan for the offense

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    Default Peps plan for the offense

    Hi,

    This is a article that was posted on ESPN, I thought it was kind of interesting what the new OC has planned for us in the coming year.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/nfl/rumors/post?id=475

    Colts' changes with Hamilton - January, 21, 2013

    By Tim Kavanagh | ESPN.com

    In an intriguing twist of fate over the past week, Indianapolis Colts QB Andrew Luck lost the architect of his offense from his phenomenal rookie campaign -- Bruce Arians, who took the HC job in Arizona -- but gained the man who had guided him at the tail end of his career at Stanford -- Pep Hamilton, who left his job as the "Andrew Luck director of offense" with the Cardinal to take on the OC post under Chuck Pagano. So what changes should we expect out of Indy's offense as a result of that substitution?

    Hamilton explained his offensive strategy on Saturday, per Peter King of Sports Illustrated: "It'll be a variation of the West Coast -- the West Coast principles, the short, efficient passing game, a high completion rate, but I enjoy watching our guys come off the ball, the guys up front and try to knock the opponent back. I'm a big believer in the power running game, running gap schemes and I think ultimately that opens up your passing game, play-action passes ... and get free access outside on the perimeter and find ways to get Reggie Wayne the ball. I want to be flexible schematically and make sure that we find ways to get the ball into our dynamic playmakers' hands."

    This could, potentially, reduce the amount of deep-ball chances that Luck takes in 2013, which could result in a higher completion percentage and fewer interceptions. King notes, for example, that Luck was a 71 percent passer at Stanford in 2011, a figure that dropped to 54.1 percent with Indy in 2012. In addition, there could be a lot more work for TEs Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener, as Hamilton's offense has greatly involved the TEs as receivers in recent seasons (in 2012, two of the top three receivers by yardage were TEs).
    From this I would say that targeting the O-line heavy in the draft and in FA is a definite, also I wonder how this affects us having TY Hilton, he is more of a deep threat and if he does not increase his route running skills as well as pass catching he will not have the best time next season, maybe we can trade him for a guy like Rueben Randle, we will defiantly need more possession WR's seeing that right now all we have is Wayne and Allen who are really possession guys.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Hi,

    This is a article that was posted on ESPN, I thought it was kind of interesting what the new OC has planned for us in the coming year.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/nfl/rumors/post?id=475



    From this I would say that targeting the O-line heavy in the draft and in FA is a definite, also I wonder how this affects us having TY Hilton, he is more of a deep threat and if he does not increase his route running skills as well as pass catching he will not have the best time next season, maybe we can trade him for a guy like Rueben Randle, we will defiantly need more possession WR's seeing that right now all we have is Wayne and Allen who are really possession guys.
    I wonder who will be the full back in the new offense? I could see Allen getting some h back duties but we need him at the TE position in a two TE set.

    Hilton will be fine IMO. He has a strong work ethic and I could see him adjust his game to fit the offensive system.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I wonder who will be the full back in the new offense? I could see Allen getting some h back duties but we need him at the TE position in a two TE set.

    Hilton will be fine IMO. He has a strong work ethic and I could see him adjust his game to fit the offensive system.
    Not sure, but he better be able to run the Y-banana... lol

    Also, I think he could, but might not be as efficient, as in the last season, my thinking would be get guys who fit your system, possession WRs are typically bigger, taller, and can take hits across the middle, but hey I guess Wes Welker has been successful doing it so I guess we will see, but he has really good route running and knows how to find holes in coverage as well.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Not sure, but he better be able to run the Y-banana... lol

    Also, I think he could, but might not be as efficient, as in the last season, my thinking would be get guys who fit your system, possession WRs are typically bigger, taller, and can take hits across the middle, but hey I guess Wes Welker has been successful doing it so I guess we will see, but he has really good route running and knows how to find holes in coverage as well.

    They are still going to take shots down the field so I see Hilton as the play action deep man. Bowe is probably the only worth while guy as far as possesion recievers go in FA's.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    They are still going to take shots down the field so I see Hilton as the play action deep man. Bowe is probably the only worth while guy as far as possesion recievers go in FA's.
    Yeah, I think that makes Hilton more of a 3rd WR in the system then, I was hoping he could be a #2, but I guess I can not count him out until after the offseason. As far as top guys, yeah Bowe would be the only one I would take a chance on, another guy that I would be interested in bringing in would be Ramses Barden, I think he has some upside, and really has not had a chance to break into such a deep rotation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Hi,

    This is a article that was posted on ESPN, I thought it was kind of interesting what the new OC has planned for us in the coming year.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/nfl/rumors/post?id=475



    From this I would say that targeting the O-line heavy in the draft and in FA is a definite, also I wonder how this affects us having TY Hilton, he is more of a deep threat and if he does not increase his route running skills as well as pass catching he will not have the best time next season, maybe we can trade him for a guy like Rueben Randle, we will defiantly need more possession WR's seeing that right now all we have is Wayne and Allen who are really possession guys.
    Hilton can still be a good yards after the catch guy

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Hilton can still be a good yards after the catch guy

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
    He will be used a lot in the bubble screens and short slants. What I don't want to see is a a lot of Whalen next year.

    As for full backs it looks like Jerome Felton is the best free agent available.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    I just hope Pep doesn't reign in Luck too much. I like cutting down the down-field throw yardage a bit, but I still think Luck can be an absolute beast in the 15-30 yard range if he has time to throw the ball.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I just hope Pep doesn't reign in Luck too much. I like cutting down the down-field throw yardage a bit, but I still think Luck can be an absolute beast in the 15-30 yard range if he has time to throw the ball.
    Yes, if he has time to throw the ball and practices working with the receivers on the timing/routes, then I think he can be a beast down field as he gets more experience.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I just hope Pep doesn't reign in Luck too much. I like cutting down the down-field throw yardage a bit, but I still think Luck can be an absolute beast in the 15-30 yard range if he has time to throw the ball.
    It goes both ways. For his overall progression I would like him to sustain drives and have a beefed up running game to wear opposing teams down. I think everyone feels comfortable that when it comes time to have a game winning drive luck is capable of running that no huddle to perfection.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    He will be used a lot in the bubble screens and short slants. What I don't want to see is a a lot of Whalen next year.

    As for full backs it looks like Jerome Felton is the best free agent available.
    Not as worried about FB though, we could get a guy who is not too bad at blocking, but also can catch out of the backfield, I would not be surprised if we just got a UDFA.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    I am just looking forward to Luck running a little No-Huddle, I also think that he should have time to complete some of the short passes, often the longer ones were what caused trouble. Luck waited and waited for routes to develop and guys to get separation, but often times that took a while, which combined with an iffy lines at times, caused him to get hit more often.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Not as worried about FB though, we could get a guy who is not too bad at blocking, but also can catch out of the backfield, I would not be surprised if we just got a UDFA.
    It sounds like Pep is going to go to a more power running game and that requires a hard nosed guy who can also catch which is not easy to find. I certainly don't want a UDFA blocking or trying to catch a pass on a third and short from Luck. I haven't seen a ton of Jackie Battle but I know he is phenomonal athlete. IN his proday he ran a 4.42 and had a 41 inch vertical.

    Leach and Kuhn our household names because they make plays. I want Luck to have the same luxury and what worries me is that the Colts don't have a running back that has reliable hands.

    A smart guy with a hard nose and soft hands are hard to come by in the NFL and if he is going to be a part of the staple of the offense then I want the best and smartest guy on the field.

    Thats one of the reasons I bring up Jerome Felton. He would give Andrew Luck a run for his money in the smarts departement. As a 7th grader he took the ACT and got accepted into college. I don't think he would miss a blitz pickup and he was a big reason AP had the best season of his career.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Why did the Colts let him go?
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Why did the Colts let him go?
    My assumption here is that we didn't run a base offense with a fullback anymore. Certainly Grigson adjusted to what BA wanted and a fullback is only used in goal line situations IIRC. Combine that with veteran pay minimal vs a guy like Hughes and I think its a combination of special team play and salary cap. This is why I think we traded our only FB to the Broncos last year. We simply didn't run an offense that utilized one very often unlike what we will be running in 2013. Certainly Vaughn was used much more on defense than a fullback under BA.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    It sounds like Pep is going to go to a more power running game and that requires a hard nosed guy who can also catch which is not easy to find. I certainly don't want a UDFA blocking or trying to catch a pass on a third and short from Luck. I haven't seen a ton of Jackie Battle but I know he is phenomonal athlete. IN his proday he ran a 4.42 and had a 41 inch vertical.

    Leach and Kuhn our household names because they make plays. I want Luck to have the same luxury and what worries me is that the Colts don't have a running back that has reliable hands.

    A smart guy with a hard nose and soft hands are hard to come by in the NFL and if he is going to be a part of the staple of the offense then I want the best and smartest guy on the field.

    Thats one of the reasons I bring up Jerome Felton. He would give Andrew Luck a run for his money in the smarts departement. As a 7th grader he took the ACT and got accepted into college. I don't think he would miss a blitz pickup and he was a big reason AP had the best season of his career.
    Vontea Leach is one of the top FB's and he went undrafted, most do, it is just the way that it is, Kuhn as well went undrafted.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Vontea Leach is one of the top FB's and he went undrafted, most do, it is just the way that it is, Kuhn as well went undrafted.
    I understand they often go undrafted but not every team runs a full back like Pep wants. We have marginal rbs who can catch the ball which will put more emphasis on a FB coming out of the backfield to catch the ball. I certainly don't want a rookie screwing up a 3rd and short in a important game which is every game in the nfl.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I understand they often go undrafted but not every team runs a full back like Pep wants. We have marginal rbs who can catch the ball which will put more emphasis on a FB coming out of the backfield to catch the ball. I certainly don't want a rookie screwing up a 3rd and short in a important game which is every game in the nfl.
    Do you know who often played fullback at Stanford atleast recently, they used a LB at times and a TE. I do not think this will be a position that you need to go and grab someone who is super, my thinking is that we either grab a TE known for his blocking, but who can also catch, a FB that has some catching skill or a strong RB who is decent at catching out of the backfield. There will be tons of these guys not drafted, also, with all of the other weapons that Luck will have, I doubt our new FB will see a ton of carries or catches, and will probably only be in the game in certain situations, not every down, especially since we have a guy like Allen that we can motion back into the backfield.

    I also doubt he will be in on many pass plays doing zone blitz pick ups, maybe in short yardage.

    BTW Jackie Battle came in the league undrafted as well as a RB, my thinking is as far as a FB, there are so many other positions of need that actually need depth so FB rarely get drafted and if you would like a decent one all you need to do is find a guy that fits the build for your system, teach him what you want him to do, and then let him play, that has been the case for all of these guys you are mentioning.

    If we were to grab any FB in the draft the only one I would feel good about adding would be Lonnie Pryor, check out his video, he is a converted RB, that has already added some size and has good technique blocking, he also has speed and can be used to run the ball at times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doNyjdbdLOM
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Also here goes your hope for Felton

    99 problems but Felton ain't one

    January, 23, 2013

    By AJ Mass | ESPN.com

    Adrian Peterson is certainly going to be one of the first players selected in 2013 fantasy leagues all across the country in any and all formats after the enormous success he achieved in his remarkable return from injury.

    While Peterson deserves much of the credit for his 2,097-yard campaign, he didn't do it all by himself. Lead blocker Jerome Felton certainly earned a ton of accolades for his part in helping Peterson reach that lofty 2,000-yard milestone. Not only was he rewarded with a Pro Bowl nod, but he should reap monetary benefits as well, in the form of a new contract.

    The Minneapolis Star Tribune reports that both Felton and the Minnesota Vikings are anxious to lock down the fullback's services sooner rather than later. And with Adrian Peterson in his corner, Felton is sure to come out of negotiations with a huge smile on his face.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Do you know who often played fullback at Stanford atleast recently, they used a LB at times and a TE. I do not think this will be a position that you need to go and grab someone who is super, my thinking is that we either grab a TE known for his blocking, but who can also catch, a FB that has some catching skill or a strong RB who is decent at catching out of the backfield. There will be tons of these guys not drafted, also, with all of the other weapons that Luck will have, I doubt our new FB will see a ton of carries or catches, and will probably only be in the game in certain situations, not every down, especially since we have a guy like Allen that we can motion back into the backfield.

    I also doubt he will be in on many pass plays doing zone blitz pick ups, maybe in short yardage.

    BTW Jackie Battle came in the league undrafted as well as a RB, my thinking is as far as a FB, there are so many other positions of need that actually need depth so FB rarely get drafted and if you would like a decent one all you need to do is find a guy that fits the build for your system, teach him what you want him to do, and then let him play, that has been the case for all of these guys you are mentioning.

    If we were to grab any FB in the draft the only one I would feel good about adding would be Lonnie Pryor, check out his video, he is a converted RB, that has already added some size and has good technique blocking, he also has speed and can be used to run the ball at times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doNyjdbdLOM
    You are talking about Owen and he started out as a fullback then do to injuries played Mike in short yardage situations as a junior and senior.

    Thats hardly converting him as a TE or LB to play FB. The Full back positon rarely gets drafted since the NFL has changed from a running league to a pass happy league. The demand is down so they don't get drafted but that doesn't mean you can just sign anyone and have a great hybrid FB to play 15 to 20% of the offensive snaps and be effective.

    If the Colts want to get serious about rushing the football and have a guy able to catch the football they need to invest in it much like teams like the Chargers did with Lorenzo Neal. When he left for Baltimore LT numbers droped big time and he also helped Flacco have a great rookie season as far as completion %.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 01-24-2013 at 11:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    You are talking about Owen and he started out as a fullback then do to injuries played Mike in short yardage situations as a junior and senior.

    Thats hardly converting him as a TE or LB to play FB. The Full back positon rarely gets drafted since the NFL has changed from a running league to a pass happy league. The demand is down so they don't get drafted but that doesn't mean you can just sign anyone and have a great hybrid FB to play 15 to 20% of the offensive snaps and be effective.

    If the Colts want to get serious about rushing the football and have a guy able to catch the football they need to invest in it much like teams like the Chargers did with Lorenzo Neal. When he left for Baltimore LT numbers droped big time and he also helped Flacco have a great rookie season as far as completion %.
    You are correct on Owen, even though he was recruited as a FB/LB, he primarily played FB his first couple year, the TE to FB conversion I was talking about was their current guy that they used this previous year.

    Going along with your point that demand is down, that allows guys that are NFL quality FB's to emerge as UDFA, I guess that is more of my point. I am with you that you can not just sign anyone and they become a great hybrid FB, but you can get a guy that fits your system good, and take advantage of the skills he offers, and maybe he will turn out to be a very good guy. There have been around 8 FB's drafted in the past 2 years, but I would not say they have separated themselves from the guys that went to the NFL as UDFA's, and I feel your chances of finding a good FB are about the same whether you get them from the draft as UDFA's.

    For example Owen Marecic was drafted in the 4th round, played his first year as FB, and then was overtake in his second year by a guy who plays TE.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    You may also like this guy, they say he has been targeted a lot in the senior bowl in the passing game and has not dropped a pass... he is projected as a 7th round draft pick, and could turnout to be a good acquisition as an UDFA.

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=FB
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    You are correct on Owen, even though he was recruited as a FB/LB, he primarily played FB his first couple year, the TE to FB conversion I was talking about was their current guy that they used this previous year.

    Going along with your point that demand is down, that allows guys that are NFL quality FB's to emerge as UDFA, I guess that is more of my point. I am with you that you can not just sign anyone and they become a great hybrid FB, but you can get a guy that fits your system good, and take advantage of the skills he offers, and maybe he will turn out to be a very good guy. There have been around 8 FB's drafted in the past 2 years, but I would not say they have separated themselves from the guys that went to the NFL as UDFA's, and I feel your chances of finding a good FB are about the same whether you get them from the draft as UDFA's.

    For example Owen Marecic was drafted in the 4th round, played his first year as FB, and then was overtake in his second year by a guy who plays TE.
    I agree you can find a quality FB in the draft or in UDFA's but I don't want to go through the hassel of a rookie learning curve or if the guy doesn't work out in the long run.

    Get the known vet that is more expensive by a million dollars and walk away from wasting a draft pick or having 3 on the roster during camp and trying to figure out if they are worth a roster spot or not.

    ITs sort of the same postion some take with drafting offensive lineman when you have a 44 million to spend in FA's.

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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I agree you can find a quality FB in the draft or in UDFA's but I don't want to go through the hassel of a rookie learning curve or if the guy doesn't work out in the long run.

    Get the known vet that is more expensive by a million dollars and walk away from wasting a draft pick or having 3 on the roster during camp and trying to figure out if they are worth a roster spot or not.

    ITs sort of the same postion some take with drafting offensive lineman when you have a 44 million to spend in FA's.
    Humm James Casey? he is a vet that can catch out the backfield, and can be a lead blocker as well. I will say I would not mind the idea of bringing in the UDFA's at the FB position, because unlike the lineman even good ones don't always get drafted, and it is not as much of a wish and hope type thing compared to most other positions. But hey to each his own, who ever we get I hope they can catch and develop chemistry with the RB, O-line and the QB quick.
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    Default Re: Peps plan for the offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Humm James Casey? he is a vet that can catch out the backfield, and can be a lead blocker as well. I will say I would not mind the idea of bringing in the UDFA's at the FB position, because unlike the lineman even good ones don't always get drafted, and it is not as much of a wish and hope type thing compared to most other positions. But hey to each his own, who ever we get I hope they can catch and develop chemistry with the RB, O-line and the QB quick.
    Thats the problem with the FA FB class outside of Jerome there really isn't well known guys and Casey is a medicore FB IMO. The off the radar guy I like is Owen Schmitt. He played for the Raiders last year but they had Reece at FB who is pretty good. Schmitt also was in Philly when Grigson was there so thats the guy who is affordable and experienced that I see him going after if we don't draft a guy.

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