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Thread: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

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    Default Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    So I have been following all of the Mad Ant games where Plumlee or Johnson have made appearances, and have been very pleased with both during their time there and am very happy Indiana is finally utilizing this tool. I have really liked what I have seen from Miles Plumlee in these games for the most part with the exception of his shot blocking skills. He seems to have terrible timing on his blocks and is often thrown out of position quite often on any head fakes and is frequently jumping too late or too early when trying to protect the rim, which is unfortunate because with this size and leaping ability I was really hoping this would be a strength in his game.

    So my question is do you guys think that his timing and shot block instincts can be developed from good coaching and playing behind two very good defensive bigs in Hibbert and Mahimi, or do you think that shot block timing is one of those natural talents where you either have it or you don't? It seems for the most part that shot blocking and it's timing is more of a natural instinct you don't necessarily see that many shot blockers blossom as their careers progress, but I am curious what others think. And if you can develop good shot blocking skills it seems like Indiana is a good spot to do it when you are playing behing Hibbert and Mahimi especially with the raw ability Plumlee possesses in his size and vertical to be good at this skill. So curious on your guys thoughts, thanks.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    In my mind shot blocking is way more about length, timing and instincts. Three things that IMO Plumlee lacks. He only has an 8'8" reach which is extremely low for a 6'11" guy.

    I'm still hopeful that he can use his size and other athletic gifts to become a bench contributer in the same way Jeff Foster was for many years. Just not sure if he has the same amount of grit and determination which in conjunction with his vert and ability to run the floor is what really made Foster a legit NBA player.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    I've always thought that shot blocking is something you're either naturally good at or not... You have to be born with the ability to effectively read someone's body language and know where they're going before they get there... then you have to be able to know your own ability and how to time your jump and where to hold your reach... all in a split second...

    I've always felt that it is something you're born with because I believe I was...

    Growing up... In every sport I attempted I was always good to great on defense and putrid to so so on offense... I ended up getting into soccer and basketball... I shut people down because I could read their body language like a child's book allowing me to stick to them like glue... In the last rec league I played in a couple of years ago I held the local high school's leading scorer to his lowest scoring performance of the rec league season by denying him opportunities to get the ball, and challenging his shots... I had a hard time blocking his shots as he was 4" taller and a decade younger... But I still challenged them

    Timing is a big component to blocking shots... But in my opinion the ability to read someone's body language is the more important first step in blocking or challenging a shot... Because if your timing is off you may not block the shot but you can still contest it... Whereas if you don't know where to be you are either growing to foul or do nothing to contest the shot...
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    There's certainly an instinct to it, but there's also a skill of not falling for head fakes. I don't think anyone expects Plum to one day become Roy Hibbert (although, to be honest, nobody expected Roy Hibbert to be Roy Hibbert either), but I do think he (Plum) can be a serviceable defensive big man.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Honestly because Plumlee isn't long, but is fairly agile I think he is actually better suited for PF than C.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    To me being a good shot blocker is a combination of being athletic, instinct, and knowing how to block shots which can be learned. We've all seen players who could jump out of the gym, but were never good shotblockers.

    I watched Plumjam's younger brother, who plays at Duke, the other day. IMO, Plumjam doesn't look to be the best of the Plumlee brothers. OTOH, in my "limited" viewing of Cody Zeller, he looks the better of the 3 Zeller brothers. JMOAA

    I'll say it again, Bird should have traded last years pick. He should have either traded out of the draft or traded up in the draft. Picking Plumjam at #26 was a mistake. He's never going to be much... wasted pick. While I'm at it, why was Bird EVER ALLOWED to make the draft pick? Just SMH.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'll say it again, Bird should have traded last years pick. He should have either traded out of the draft or traded up in the draft. Picking Plumjam at #26 was a mistake. He's never going to be much... wasted pick. While I'm at it, why was Bird EVER ALLOWED to make the draft pick? Just SMH.
    Yeah, I can't believe we ever let Bird draft anybody. Green text.

    Seriously, late first-round picks are hard to trade. What do you think he'd have gotten for it?
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Yeah, I can't believe we ever let Bird draft anybody. Green text.

    Seriously, late first-round picks are hard to trade. What do you think he'd have gotten for it?


    Did you miss the part why was Bird even allowed to make the draft pick? He chose to leave, so why would he be the one making the pick with a new PBO already hired? Bird isn't some draft guru. Then maybe you think he is. We can re-hash all of Bird's picks, but we both know them by heart. Some were good picks and some failures.

    At #26 what super player was Bird going to get. Oh yeah, Plumlee. (in green) If the Pacers were going to trade out of a draft, this was the draft to do so. The pick could have been part of a bigger trade/deal of either trading up or out of the draft as I previously stated. This is why every year many teams in the bottom 80% of the draft try to deal or sell their picks. The chances of finding a gem in the latter part of the draft isn't a high %. IMO, the Pacers could be in the same situation the 013 draft depending on who is in the draft.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Yeah, I can't believe we ever let Bird draft anybody. Green text.

    Seriously, late first-round picks are hard to trade. What do you think he'd have gotten for it?
    Teague would have been nice.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Did you miss the part why was Bird even allowed to make the draft pick? He chose to leave, so why would he be the one making the pick with a new PBO already hired? Bird isn't some draft guru. Then maybe you think he is. We can re-hash all of Bird's picks, but we both know them by heart. Some were good picks and some failures.
    Because he was still employed by the Pacers? Because his scouting team had been scouting all year? Because he's shown himself to be a reasonably decent judge of talent? This is not something to get worked up over.

    If the Pacers were going to trade out of a draft, this was the draft to do so. The pick could have been part of a bigger trade/deal of either trading up or out of the draft as I previously stated. This is why every year many teams in the bottom 80% of the draft try to deal or sell their picks. The chances of finding a gem in the latter part of the draft isn't a high %. IMO, the Pacers could be in the same situation the 013 draft depending on who is in the draft.
    So... I'm confused. You're agreeing that lots of teams at the bottom of the first round try to trade out. That means the asking price is low. That means that it's hard to get any kind of value for a late first-round pick. Teams that trade out are generally GIVING away their picks. You're upset because Bird didn't give away a first-round draft pick?

    I'm not enthralled with Plumlee, but he's far better than I expected. If you draft a guy after #25 and he's capable even making the team, you've done well. I can envision Miles becoming a rotation player. That's not bad with the #26 pick. A lot of people were killing Bird for not picking PJ3 with that pick, but he's not really produced more in the D-League than Plumlee has, and Plum plays a more important position. Again, this is not something to get worked up over.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Watching Plums in SL, I was disappointed with his shot blocking abilities as well. He would contest a shot or two but he didn't seem like a giant factor on D.

    However, I believe that some of those things can be learned. Defensive position can be learning. Jumping straight up can be learned. We've seen that Pendy has got some of the defensive tricks that Hibby uses. So, I'm fairly certain that since Pendy was able to learn a thing or two by Hibbert then so will Plums.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Some were good picks and some failures.
    Isn't that true for most all GMs?

    To be honest, Bird has done a great job. He drafted Hibbert/Paul who both have very much blossomed into 2 All-Stars. He fixed our Looong drought of useless PGs. He made arguably the best free agent signing in Pacers franchise. Then drafted a kid in the 2nd round that everyone assumed was a problem child with no head for the NBA. Wow, has that panned out. Thats just our starting 5. He brought in Mahinmi, who you have to admit has turned it a damn good backup big, with actual size and a nice contract. He signed a great wrong coach, and gave him IMO the best assistant coach in the league.

    What more do you want from him?
    Last edited by LetsTalkPacers84; 01-19-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So... I'm confused. You're agreeing that lots of teams at the bottom of the first round try to trade out. That means the asking price is low. That means that it's hard to get any kind of value for a late first-round pick. Teams that trade out are generally GIVING away their picks. You're upset because Bird didn't give away a first-round draft pick?

    STOP YOUR NONSENSE!

    IF teams trade or sell the late picks, there must be a value to those picks to teams that trade or buy them. There are times, % is low, when a good player can be gotten. George Hill is an example.

    Trading a pick by itself isn't something I ever mentioned. I said as PART of a trade. Some sweetner to make the deal more acceptable to both parties.

    A theoretical scenario: lets say the Pacers want player X and offer Pacer Z for that player, but players X team won't do the deal. They would do the deal if the #26 pick is part of the deal. The Pacers feel player X is worth Pacer player Z and the #26 pick. You sweeten the deal with adding the #26 pick to get the deal done and the player you want.

    There are numerous scenarios where a late pick can be a more valuable trading tool than a player drafted at #26, or in this case Plumlee.

    Bird was leaving the Pacers thus he had no dog in the fight of picking who was drafted. Bird had a draft team and a board put together, and this wasn't Walsh's 1st rodeo at drafting either. Just extremely odd that the out going PBO stays around to make the draft pick. I've never known a top exec who after giving their resignation and his replacement on board being allowed to make a command decision that has influence on the future of the company. Maybe the pick was so inconsequential it didn't matter to Herb or Walsh, but to Bird it was just 1 more chance to pick a possible gem.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers84 View Post
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    I

    He brought in Mahinmi, who you have to admit has turned it a damn good backup big,

    WHAT? Walsh brought in Mahinmi by trading DC and Dahntay for him. Let's not get carried away singing the praises about Bird.

    That's the same Walsh that brought in Green and Augustin too.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    There's only one problem Happy: You're not any good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I've never known a top exec who after giving their resignation and his replacement on board being allowed to make a command decision that has influence on the future of the company.
    Our own Kevin Pritchard did in Portland.

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    STOP YOUR NONSENSE!

    IF teams trade or sell the late picks, there must be a value to those picks to teams that trade or buy them. There are times, % is low, when a good player can be gotten. George Hill is an example.

    Trading a pick by itself isn't something I ever mentioned. I said as PART of a trade. Some sweetner to make the deal more acceptable to both parties.

    A theoretical scenario: lets say the Pacers want player X and offer Pacer Z for that player, but players X team won't do the deal. They would do the deal if the #26 pick is part of the deal. The Pacers feel player X is worth Pacer player Z and the #26 pick. You sweeten the deal with adding the #26 pick to get the deal done and the player you want.
    Nonsense? It's nonsense to point out that draft picks in the late first round aren't a highly sought-after commodity? Dude, you're getting worked up because Larry Bird didn't make a deal, but you can't do any better than "Players X through Z?"

    Bird was leaving the Pacers thus he had no dog in the fight of picking who was drafted. Bird had a draft team and a board put together, and this wasn't Walsh's 1st rodeo at drafting either. Just extremely odd that the out going PBO stays around to make the draft pick. I've never known a top exec who after giving their resignation and his replacement on board being allowed to make a command decision that has influence on the future of the company. Maybe the pick was so inconsequential it didn't matter to Herb or Walsh, but to Bird it was just 1 more chance to pick a possible gem.
    But it wasn't just Bird's pick. It was Vogel's, Pritchard's, and Bird's. We haven't heard that there was any disagreement between them... all of them said "Yep, this is the guy we want." So if Pritchard was ok with the pick, then what's the beef?

    Note as well the discrepancy between the first quote and the second. In the latter, you're mad at Bird for using his judgment on a late first-round pick. In the former, you want him to make a trade using both it and some of our actual players. If you don't think he should have had the authority to make the pick, why would you want him making trades? It's very easy to imagine a situation where the owners said "Stay through the draft, but don't trade any players because we'll leave those options for the guy who replaces you."
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    I'm worried about our PF situation. Yes we have West but, haven't heard anything yet about resigning him. If he makes the AS team then will we be willing to pay the price for him to return? I don't think we match any offer Tyler gets as a RFA either or do we? As of right now the only sure PF that will be on our roster next season is Plumlee. Josh Smith, Paul Milsap and JJ Hickson are UFA and all much younger than West. Should be an interesting off season either way.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Bird was leaving the Pacers thus he had no dog in the fight of picking who was drafted. Bird had a draft team and a board put together, and this wasn't Walsh's 1st rodeo at drafting either. Just extremely odd that the out going PBO stays around to make the draft pick. I've never known a top exec who after giving their resignation and his replacement on board being allowed to make a command decision that has influence on the future of the company. Maybe the pick was so inconsequential it didn't matter to Herb or Walsh, but to Bird it was just 1 more chance to pick a possible gem.
    Don't forget, Bird stuck around through the Summer League in Orlando too....He didn't just up and leave, and I whole heartedly expect to see him back in some fashion.....Bird rebuilt this team, and he is too proud to just walk away and let it fail....When have you EVER seen Larry do anything half-assed....The man is very thorough and very calculated....Not to mention the fact that he loves the draft....

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    WHAT? Walsh brought in Mahinmi by trading DC and Dahntay for him. Let's not get carried away singing the praises about Bird.

    That's the same Walsh that brought in Green and Augustin too.
    So the awful draft pick was Larry but the DC trade was Walsh. How so? Same offseason. I'd assume whoever was in charge did them both.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    It comes with time. No rookie is going to be a shot blocker. He will have to learn the game at a pro level. Rookies always foul to much to be an effective shot blocker. Even tho Miles arm length could stand to be better, he does have a pretty quick jump and a great vertical to make up for it.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 01-19-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    No rookie is going to be a shot blocker.
    Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond disagree.

    But I believe that Miles can be a good shot blocker if we give him some time to work on it (and if Hibby gives him some advice).
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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond disagree.

    But I believe that Miles can be a good shot blocker if we give him some time to work on it (and if Hibby gives him some advice).
    I don't call 1.5 blk pg shot blockers coming from 6'11" bigs, but It's a start for rookies.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    In my mind shot blocking is way more about length, timing and instincts. Three things that IMO Plumlee lacks. He only has an 8'8" reach which is extremely low for a 6'11" guy.

    I'm still hopeful that he can use his size and other athletic gifts to become a bench contributer in the same way Jeff Foster was for many years. Just not sure if he has the same amount of grit and determination which in conjunction with his vert and ability to run the floor is what really made Foster a legit NBA player.
    He has terrible timing and terrible basketball instincts thats why he looks so awkward when he plays the game. Robert Swift esk

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    Default Re: Miles Plumlee Shot Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers84 View Post
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    So the awful draft pick was Larry but the DC trade was Walsh. How so? Same offseason. I'd assume whoever was in charge did them both.
    I think thats wrong. Pretty sure Larry said he was done after the draft. He went to SL but I believe he went because he lives in the area.

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