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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Indianapolis Star

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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[ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

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  • #16
    Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

    Speculation on trading Danny is a bit ridiculous right now. Unless somebody goes Godfather on the Pacers and makes them an offer they can't refuse, they might as well see how well he plays within this newest Frank Vogel system. I personally love the idea of incredible length and overall size on defense and the concept of dual swingmen taking over the wings in offense.
    "There is a time to play and a time to win. It is what you do during winning time that differentiates the average players from stars."

    ~Ahmad Rashad~

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    • #17
      Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

      Depends on the offer. You trade Granger if the right offer is made. You keep him otherwise. We are a better team with Granger, but that doesn't mean he should be kept.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        Freaking great article and research by Abbot with Thorpe's assistance.

        One thing I've thought all year was that I was seeing a lot more physical defense being allowed than normal. I've seen games where West is just mugged, and to be fair I've seen tons of plays by Roy that would have been called in year's past even though it's the kind of play I like to see allowed (defending your space only, not going into the player).

        This year you'd also have to add oversight regarding flops and an intentional attempt to ignore flops by the refs. You have to think that's part of it as well.
        Well, I've still seen some ticky tack fouls here and there I don't like. But if you say it's not as bad this year, then I'm happy. Because the pass few years has been some of the woosiest basketball I've ever watched.
        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

          Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
          Like I said, he wasn't one of them. He hasn't scored over 20 for a while and he never will again....
          Define "in a while".

          As we all know he has not played at all this season.

          In his previous season he scored 18.7 PPG. In a season that the Pacers had 5 other players averaging more than 10 PPG (Roy, West, PG, DC and Leandro) and 2 others averaging more than 9 PPG (GH and Tyler Hansbrough).

          http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...indiana-pacers

          In the 10 - 11 season he did average more than 20 PPG. 20.5 PPG, to be precise. In this season he had 4 players averaging more than 10 PPG (DC, Roy, Dunleavy and Tyler) and 1 player averaging more than 9 (Brandon Rush).

          The last time that Paul Pierce scored more than 20 PPG was the 08-09 season. Why? Because he didn't need to. He had Ray Allen scoring 16.3 PPG, KG scoring 14.3 PPG, Rondo scoring 13.7 PPG and Perkins scoring 10.1 PPG. And Rasheed was at 9 PPG of the bench.

          Simply put, when you have enough options in your team you don't need to score 20 points night in and night out.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

            Trade him before the Trade Deadline ONLY if the other Team is SIGNIFICANTLY overpaying for him while preserving the Team's ability to make a deep Playoff run this season...otherwise....keep him and then look to trade him in the summer offseason.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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            • #21
              Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

              09-10
              19% spot up for 38% from 3
              17% iso 0.84ppp
              11.3% off screen 43.3%


              10-11
              14.6% spot up for 37.6% from 3
              18.2% iso 0.86ppp
              9.4% off screen 34.8%


              11-12
              24.1% spot up 1.01ppp 37.2% from 3
              11.5% off screens 39.6%
              11.1% iso .8ppp


              07-08 .982 assisted 40.4% 3pt (19.1 points 3.5 assist Dunleavy, Marquis Daniels)
              08-09 .951 assisted 40.5% 3pt (13pt 4.1 assist Jack, Daniels + Rush)
              09-10 .905 assisted 36.1% 3pt (9.4 points 1.4 assist Brandon Rush)
              10-11 .879 assisted 38.4% 3pt (11.2 points 1.7 assist Dunleavy, 9.1 points 0.9 assist Rush)
              11-12 .953 assisted .376% 3pt (39.9% over the last 50 games)

              Over the last 50 games of last season
              19.5 points on 15.1 shots
              .576 TS%
              .519 eFG%

              Maybe I'm crazy but it seems to me that his efficiency declined when he started to get more offense from ISO and less from spotting up and coming off of screens. The transition to more iso happened when he didn't have a productive shooting guard next to him, and his first season with a productive shooting guard that gets assists had almost exactly the same production as the last time he took 15.1 shots per game.
              "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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              • #22
                Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                Define "in a while".

                As we all know he has not played at all this season.

                In his previous season he scored 18.7 PPG. In a season that the Pacers had 5 other players averaging more than 10 PPG (Roy, West, PG, DC and Leandro) and 2 others averaging more than 9 PPG (GH and Tyler Hansbrough).

                http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...indiana-pacers

                In the 10 - 11 season he did average more than 20 PPG. 20.5 PPG, to be precise. In this season he had 4 players averaging more than 10 PPG (DC, Roy, Dunleavy and Tyler) and 1 player averaging more than 9 (Brandon Rush).

                The last time that Paul Pierce scored more than 20 PPG was the 08-09 season. Why? Because he didn't need to. He had Ray Allen scoring 16.3 PPG, KG scoring 14.3 PPG, Rondo scoring 13.7 PPG and Perkins scoring 10.1 PPG. And Rasheed was at 9 PPG of the bench.

                Simply put, when you have enough options in your team you don't need to score 20 points night in and night out.
                Don't waste your time arguing with him. And quit quoting people I have on ignore!

                As for the topic of discussion here, this is the worst time in his career to trade Danny. We are legitimate contenders with his scoring and he must have ZERO value right now because no one knows what that knee has in store.
                It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

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                • #23
                  Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                  Tim Duncan had tendonosis in 2009. He seems to be doing okay.
                  "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                    Originally posted by cgg View Post
                    Tim Duncan had tendonosis in 2009. He seems to be doing okay.
                    Being one the Best Big Men in League History also helps.
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                      Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                      Depends on the offer. You trade Granger if the right offer is made. You keep him otherwise. We are a better team with Granger, but that doesn't mean he should be kept.
                      Pretty much what Larry Legend said as well.. unless its an offer that is too good to passs up he wouldnt deal Granger. no way you deal Granger.. it would disrupt chemistry and momentum of this team

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                        Keep him, and bring him off the bench as one of the best (if not the best) 6th man in the league. Our bench still needs work, but Granger would be an immense improvement.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                          Danny granger was Paul George before Paul George. Lets just kick a player out of town that we brought up and groomed. Just when we finally get him some help and a team to compete with. Paul George is amazing but he is no reason to scrape your work horse when the two can co exist. Throw in lance as the sixth man and between the positions and you have three players for the next 5 that will cause the nba hell with thier scoring ability and grit.

                          The only position you trade him for is a young PF with PAUL George type potential. But even then you would argue that west,granger,George trio is better than anything we can play 2-3 years down the line. The only thing we will get for him is young talent and frankly I think this franchise should try to compete now with the way attendance has been for the past 8 years.

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                          • #28
                            Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                            Keep him, no question.

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                            • #29
                              Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                              Originally posted by dohman View Post
                              Danny granger was Paul George before Paul George. Lets just kick a player out of town that we brought up and groomed. Just when we finally get him some help and a team to compete with. Paul George is amazing but he is no reason to scrape your work horse when the two can co exist. Throw in lance as the sixth man and between the positions and you have three players for the next 5 that will cause the nba hell with thier scoring ability and grit.

                              The only position you trade him for is a young PF with PAUL George type potential. But even then you would argue that west,granger,George trio is better than anything we can play 2-3 years down the line. The only thing we will get for him is young talent and frankly I think this franchise should try to compete now with the way attendance has been for the past 8 years.
                              I'm not sure about that.
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                              • #30
                                Re: [ESPN] Keep Him or Trade Him? - Danny Granger

                                I like how they say Danny isn't worth his contract...and he basically makes the same as Luol Deng, a player that most would agree is inferior to Danny. But, because Luol has thrived as a THIRD option he gets a pass.

                                Let's see how Danny does when he isn't the only scorer on the team. Danny/PG/West could be an offensive juggarnaut. Couple that with Hills spot up abilities, Roy's work on the glass...we haven't seen how this team will play yet.

                                It's so easy to forget that PG was a non-factor in the playoffs.

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