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Thread: The biggest reason for our slide...

  1. #1
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    Default The biggest reason for our slide...

    Ok, maybe not THE biggest, but a pretty big one.

    A. Johnson 42
    R. Miller 41
    . Foster 43
    J. Jones 33
    D. Harrison 29
    A. Croshere 34
    F. Jones 32
    E. Gill 11
    J. Edwards Coach's decision
    M. Haislip Coach's decision
    T. Fowlkes Coach's decision

    Why do we have DNP-CD's when our starters are absolutely dying of exhaustion. Foster was running around out there with his tongue handing out, and Haislip is riding the pine. I understand that Rick likes to stick with his starters and keep a short rotation, but that's when you're playing your starters and gearing up for the playoffs. We're struggling along with a bunch of guys that have NEVER had to play this kind of minutes.

    So it begs the question, why did we bring in these extra guys if we're not going to play them? Is Haislip so lousy that he can't even earn ONE extra minute giving someone a break. If they're here just to fill up space, why did we bring them in to begin with? If they're here to help out, why not let them? And if they're here so we can check them out for the future, why not give them a chance? And if Rick feels like he's seen enough, just dump them and bring in somebody with a chance to play.

    This was a nip and tuck game, and I certainly understand why he left his best available guys on the floor at the end, but I think Rick has got to open up the rotation to give these guys, especially the injured guys and guys just returning from injury, a little break.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    He probably figured that the lead we did have, would be gone in about 5 seconds of putting Haslip on Webber, and Edwards on Miller, and Fowlkes on Peja. He was trying to WIN. I enjoyed the lineup.
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  3. #3
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    I liked Haislip when I first saw him in a Pacers uniform, but the more i see the less I like. He has no concept on how to play basketball or fit into an offensive or defensive system, he is not a very smart basketball player.

    The impression I got Saturday night: whenever the core players wet to the bench bad things happen. I include Cro in the core player group. DH was struggling against the very smart and crafty Kings big men.

  4. #4
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    I liked Haislip too but am getting the same feeling about him.

    I have a different feeling as to why we arent as effect though. We just quit moving the ball like we had been.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  5. #5
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays
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    I liked Haislip too but am getting the same feeling about him.

    I have a different feeling as to why we arent as effect though. We just quit moving the ball like we had been.
    TINSLEY

  6. #6
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    TINSLEY
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  7. #7
    JamesBond
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    sure,Tinsley!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    Harrison sits down with just under seven minutes to play in the fourth quarter, and the Kings scored four straight layups to go from down four to about plus-four.

    He may not have been playing well, but he was a presense that the Kings respected. With AC and Jeff playing together, they were much more aggressive at attacking the basket.

    Let's not get too giddy about Foster's offensive rebounding. Here's what we did with his ORs:

    1st Period

    (8:59) [IND] Foster Layup Shot: Missed
    (8:57) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:1 Def:1)
    (8:57) [IND] Foster Layup: Missed
    (8:57) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
    (8:55) [SAC] Webber Foul: Shooting (1 PF)
    (8:55) [IND] Foster Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
    (8:55) [IND] Team Rebound
    (8:55) [IND 3-5] Foster Free Throw 2 of 2 (1 PTS)

    1 point

    (8:19) [IND] R. Miller Jump Shot: Missed
    (8:18) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:3 Def:2)
    (8:17) [IND 5-7] Foster Dunk Shot: Made (3 PTS)

    2 points

    2nd Period:

    (3:33) [IND] Harrison Jump Shot: Missed
    (3:31) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:4 Def:1)
    (3:30) [IND] Foster Jump Shot: Missed
    (3:29) [SAC] Webber Rebound (Off:4 Def:2)

    No points

    (3:06) [IND] R. Miller Jump Shot: Missed
    (3:04) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:5 Def:1)
    (2:53) [IND] Foster Jump Shot: Missed
    (2:51) [SAC] B. Miller Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)

    No points

    (0:51) [IND] F. Jones Free Throw 2 of 2 missed
    (0:51) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:6 Def:2)
    (0:36) [IND 44-40] Johnson Jump Shot: Made (8 PTS)

    2 points

    3rd Period:

    (9:15) [IND] Harrison Jump Shot: Missed
    (9:13) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:7 Def:3)
    (9:13) [IND] Foster Layup Shot: Missed
    (9:11) [SAC] Christie Rebound (Off:1 Def:1)

    No points

    (8:07) [IND] J. Jones Jump Shot: Missed
    (8:05) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:8 Def:3)
    (8:03) [IND 52-46] Foster Layup Shot: Made (7 PTS)

    2 points

    (7:34) [IND] Johnson Hook Shot: Missed
    (7:32) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:9 Def:3)
    (7:19) [IND 55-46] R. Miller Jump Shot: Made (11 PTS) Assist: Johnson (3 AST)

    2 points

    (5:58) [IND] Johnson Jump Shot: Missed
    (5:56) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:10 Def:3)
    (5:56) [IND 59-50] Foster Layup Shot: Made (9 PTS)

    2 points

    (4:23) [IND] Croshere Jump Shot: Missed
    (4:21) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:11 Def:4)
    (4:21) [IND 61-53] Foster Tip Shot: Made (11 PTS)

    2 points

    (11:09) [IND] J. Jones Jump Shot: Missed
    (11:06) [IND] Foster Rebound (Off:12 Def:4)
    (11:06) [IND] Foster Layup Shot: Missed
    (11:05) [SAC] B. Miller Rebound (Off:3 Def:5)

    No points

    So for Foster's 12 OR's, we scored a whopping 13 points. Not a very high efficiency ratio.

    That's 13 points we might not have otherwise scored, but there are still a lot of empty possessions even when he got the OR.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
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  9. #9
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    Is'nt Tinsley playing against Atlanta?

  10. #10
    Trace
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    Jay,

    Interesting breakdown of the rebounding, but I'm confused. If Foster's extra 12 rebounds translate into 12 extra shots for the Pacers and we shoot 50%, that would give us 12 extra points...we had 13. That's about what I would have expected.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    There's a theory, since most of those shots are put-backs or very close range, that you should shoot higher than 50%.

    I thought, when I started pulling the stats from the play-by-play, that we were going to find more of the first sequence - Foster getting two or three ORs in one possession with nothing to show for it. Kinda like Dale Davis in the old days (sorry, Peck). Great hustle but bad basketball.

    So my point lost most of its steam when I saw our actual success rate. At first, when I was thinking that Foster had only 11 points on 12 ORs, I was assuming we had to have squandered even more of his ORs than we really had.

    So I posted it anyway, Trace, since I had already finished the research. But I really backed off what I was originally going to say (which was: Why was Foster even on the floor, especially if it meant Harrison going to the bench?)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #12
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    It felt like the flow of the game was simply better when Foster and Cro were in there together. Maybe I am wrong but that is when we would go on a run. Gill should have played more minutes also. We went on a nice run while he was on the floor. Of course that coincided with Cro and Foster being on the floor together so it may have been them.

  13. #13
    Trace
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    I can definitely accept an argument that we should shoot better than 50% after an offensive rebound. Presumably you're under the basket and the defense is in disarray...and there are several missed Foster layups in your breakdown.

    But I really backed off what I was originally going to say (which was: Why was Foster even on the floor, especially if it meant Harrison going to the bench?)
    I'll bet nobody expected to be asking that question when Harrison was drafted last summer. Nice surprise. Maybe Rick just prefers experience down the stretch of a tight game.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: The biggest reason for our slide...

    I wanted David in at the end.
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