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Thread: NBA all stars starters announced today

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    If so, you greatly underestimate the power of superstars and one would have thought that Miami showed you what that was all about against Miami last year.
    Not really. If anything you just overestimate the power of superstars

    The Miami series showed what most people expected. You cannot go deep in the playoffs if you don't have a bench that you can trust unless you have superstars.

    We don't have superstars so we need a bench. We didn't have a bench last year. Do we have one now? That's the question.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Those ripping KG, did you not see what he did to us when we played Boston?
    I'm not trying to rip KG. All I'm saying is that he didn't deserve to be a starter. Noah, Chandler and even Horford and Lopez have had better seasons and have led their teams to much better records than KG.

    KG is not Duncan. He is not as dominant anymore.
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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    I take it back. Kyrie should be an All-Star. He's frustrating to watch sometimes on the defensive end but he rebounds well for a guard.

    My reserve picks in the East are:

    Irving, Holiday, Noah, Chandler, George, Josh Smith, and Pierce.


    Honorable mentions to Bosh, David West, JR Smith, Luol Deng, and Carlos Boozer.

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    Irving has missed half the season. How do you justify him being an all star?

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Irving has missed half the season. How do you justify him being an all star?
    He's played 30 games. He hasn't missed half the season..
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I'm not trying to rip KG. All I'm saying is that he didn't deserve to be a starter. Noah, Chandler and even Horford and Lopez have had better seasons and have led their teams to much better records than KG.

    KG is not Duncan. He is not as dominant anymore.
    I respect your opinion bro, but I believe KG is clearly better than those named listed above. Maybe they have better numbers, but this isn't fantasy basketball. KG and Duncan are very close
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    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I respect your opinion bro, but I believe KG is clearly better than those named listed above. Maybe they have better numbers, but this isn't fantasy basketball. KG and Duncan are very close
    In the past you might be right, but this season the numbers show differently. I know you say it's not a "fantasy league", but it's about more than that. All the guys named (Noah, Chandler, Lopez, Horford) have better records than the Celtics. If KG is still better than these guys, why isn't he leading his team to a better record? ESPECIALLY when he has another AS STARTER, and another candidate who could easily be an AS reserve on his team. 3 AS on one team doesn't=the 8th best record in the East and 2 games above .500.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Irving has missed half the season. How do you justify him being an all star?
    He's missed a quarter of the season but in the other 3/4 he's clearly been at least the 2nd best point guard in the conference.

    He's an absolute lock.
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Damian Lillard should also be an all star rookie or not the guy is a beast.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I respect your opinion bro, but I believe KG is clearly better than those named listed above. Maybe they have better numbers, but this isn't fantasy basketball. KG and Duncan are very close
    Numbers equal production.

    Production equals how good a player is now at a constant basis. KG is not constantly better than those guys. He can be better than them 4 or 5 times per year but those other guys consistently outwork him during the season. The reason is that simply those guys are younger and have more stamina in order to play in a high level night in and night out.

    And in any case, an All-Star game is supposed to reward the players that are performing better in this given period of time. And KG is certainly not performing better than 3.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    KG and Duncan are very close
    Duncan is superior, imo. There's a reason that he is still playing in such a high level.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    He's played 30 games. He hasn't missed half the season..
    Oh yeah smart guy, 30 < 82 so at this point he hasn't even played half a season.
    I just blew your mind.*








    * you've been running pretty high strung lately so take it easy on me and just enjoy the joke

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Nah, I haven't had a drink in like two days. Pretty impressive.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    good to see Paul on most of their lists

    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/0...star-reserves/

    CWebb...smh

    If JR Smith gets on the team and Paul doesn't....

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I respect your opinion bro, but I believe KG is clearly better than those named listed above. Maybe they have better numbers, but this isn't fantasy basketball. KG and Duncan are very close
    Forget fantasy numbers, although stats are REAL as in they are items that occurred and were counted up to get totals, averages, etc. It's not like they aren't directly tied to some play.

    What you mean to suggest is something I agree with, which is that the items that are counted and their meaning can be very subjective, and that includes the actual counting (assists, blocks, steals, rebounds are all subjective in when they are assigned and who they are assigned to).

    However, over a period of 10-20 games you do see trends that imply certain players are impacting the game better or worse than others. And in this case we can directly tie it to TEAM OUTPUTS. Boston has NOT DEFENDED FG% well and has not won games at a high rate. So if KG is this key force and despite his pedestrian (by ASG standards) numbers don't tell the full story, then what outcome does?

    Certainly you can guess that Paul and Roy are having a big defensive impact due to the Pacers defensive team rankings, and it so happens that both do show some sign of statistical connection to those outcomes (esp Hibbert). So if KG is just destroying people in the paint, sending passes back out or creating awkward floaters, and in general forcing teams into tougher jumpers rather than stuff at the rim, then why in the hell doesn't that show in any of the team stats?


    You are claiming to know something about KG's output THIS SEASON, but there are no compiled stats, individual or team, that indicate that he's done anything special. And you can claim anecdotal evidence about things you saw, but the things you describe would ADD UP OVER TIME if they kept happening again and again, thus leading to higher statistical rankings. If KG is stopping shots then his blocks go up and the BOS DEF FG% goes down. If he's tough on the boards then his rebounds go up as does the Boston REB% numbers (REB/CHANCES).

    That's the thing, the stats watch EVERY SINGLE GAME, not just some of them. This is the advantage stats have over people - stats never stop watching and they never forget what they saw early in the game. They never overvalue one highlight play over 5 forgettable bad plays. These are all things that all people tend to do, something statisticians have shown time and time again.


    Stats have flaws in regards to context, but so do people. We have people right on PD that will watch the same game or even the same play and then debate the value of it. Player A screwed up...no he didn't, Player A was doing the right thing and Player B messed up...no, actually there was no screw up the play went exactly the way it was meant to.

    But stats are the ones that are fooling us? I'm still waiting on Larry's evaluation of KRush's shooting, Diener's PG play or even Tyler's vertical to come true, and that's a trained NBA professional's opinion.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by rel View Post
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    good to see Paul on most of their lists

    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/0...star-reserves/

    CWebb...smh

    If JR Smith gets on the team and Paul doesn't....
    And I realize I'm about to go anecdotal (although I've also looked at the stats), but going right at each other recently Paul clearly got the best of JR Smith on both ends of the court. Smith is a poor man's Kobe or Pierce, a guy who's primary contribution is shooting by getting his own shot. But the problem is that Smith shoots a noticeably poorer rate and yet continues to take shots in volume, almost expressly going for high difficulty shots ala Kobe.

    But that's not going to happen anyway. Paul is known now and there is room for him. Plus the Pacers record demands recognition.

    The odd man out is West, specifically because KG was selected by the fans. David's only hope is as an injury replacement for someone. At least Dave kinda slumped lately which makes it easier to take. If he was still killing it and didn't make the team...ooh boy, meltdown.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Joakim Noah is averaging 12.4 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 4.1 APG, 2 BPG and 1.1 SPG.

    He should and he will be an All-Star since he has better stats and has led the Bulls to a much better record than KG has.

    Anyway, the fans once more went for reputation over production and result. I'm not surprised at all. The coaches will select the true All-Stars.
    I agree. If Noah was made the starter it would feel deserved and would fit. Plus Chicago is a big time city with a very strong team even without Rose, and their team defense has results that back Noah's impact on the game.

    I understand how Noah rubs some people the wrong way, and certainly I love to hate him as a Bull, but I love what his game is. He's a classic power defensive center. Physical in the post, good vertical to challenge shots, and the smarts to stay home and keep himself in good defensive position. He's very unlikely to get baited into chasing the ball in overaggressive close-outs or block attempts.

    Chandler is just a tick or two behind him. I can see where to make room for Noah they drop Chandler since NYK already has Melo. And while Boston doesn't deserve 3 AS, Pierce is the best of the 3 right now so leaving him off is 2 wrongs not making a right.




    I love what Roy has been on defense this year, and the fact that in some ways he's been a tougher defender than either of these guys says quite a lot about earning his contract even with his horrifying offense.

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  24. #92
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Who's your guys vote for best defensive center this season? (considering the normally consensus number 1 isn't playing at top form just yet, Howard)

    Duncan, Marc Gasol, Noah, Chandler or Hibbert?

    All five of those guys are playing excellent defense this season.
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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    hey, I kinda liked Diener, for what he was anyway

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    hey, I kinda liked Diener, for what he was anyway
    I thought he was decent too, big fan.

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    Cool Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Who's your guys vote for best defensive center this season? (considering the normally consensus number 1 isn't playing at top form just yet, Howard)

    Duncan, Marc Gasol, Noah, Chandler or Hibbert?

    All five of those guys are playing excellent defense this season.
    Howard...... he is that much better than anyone else.... Chandler after that.....

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Howard...... he is that much better than anyone else.... Chandler after that.....
    No. Howard has always been a very average 1 on 1 defender. It's why Hibbert has had some career success against him.

    Chandler is the best because he has no weakness. Much better on PnR than Roy.

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    Cool Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    No. Howard has always been a very average 1 on 1 defender. It's why Hibbert has had some career success against him.

    Chandler is the best because he has no weakness. Much better on PnR than Roy.
    Average? Howard? He is the best inside defender in the NBA and he has been for years. I have never heard one person other than you say that he was a "very average" 1 on 1 defender. The Lakers certainly didn't go after him for his offense....

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Average? Howard? He is the best inside defender in the NBA and he has been for years. I have never heard one person other than you say that he was a "very average" 1 on 1 defender. The Lakers certainly didn't go after him for his offense....
    I think Howard is average right now that he is not 100% healthy, just yesterday I was comparing to Hibbert on the defensive side and Hibbert is way better than Howard at this moment.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Who's your guys vote for best defensive center this season? (considering the normally consensus number 1 isn't playing at top form just yet, Howard)

    Duncan, Marc Gasol, Noah, Chandler or Hibbert?

    All five of those guys are playing excellent defense this season.
    THIS year I'm gonna have to go with Duncan I think. What he's been doing this year has just been incredible. All are playing great, and I think it's a tossup between Hibbs/Chandler for second, but I think Duncan gets my vote this year.

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    Default Re: NBA all stars starters announced today

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    3 guys out of 4 on TNT have Paul George as an all star, West is not.
    Proof that flashiness gets more attention than fundamentals, regardless of the effectiveness of the fundamental player. That's not a knock on George, just an observation of the way fans think when they vote on something like this.

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