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Thread: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Sorry for going back to this again, but I don't think this has been asked and if it has, not in this way.

    I want you to just give me your first response, to this question, don't think about it, just answer the question with the first answer that comes to mind.

    Who is more responsible for the riot in the Palace.

    Possible answers:

    Artest,
    Ben Wallace
    Rick Carlisle
    the refs
    Piston fans
    Jackson
    Lindsey Hunter
    Palace security

    If you are still reading this and you have not decided yet, then you are not doiing this right.

    Go back and read the question and tell us your first answer that comes to mind.

    Who caused the riot in the Palace.

    My answer: - The Fans

  2. #2
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Ben Wallace.

    Like everyone has pointed out...the guy overreacted. REALLY overreacted.

    Ron's foul wasn't hard to begin with...Ben went to start things...and just did not stop. And of course, throwing things was a real smart idea

    All he had to do was go to the line and shoot his free throws

  3. #3
    Pacers fan in FL Deadshot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Detroit fans (no disrepect to the ones who post here, of course)

  4. #4
    stipo
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    The fans. Thats how it will be remembered in the future, IMHO. When they talk about this years from now, how can a riot be blamed on one player going into the stands? It'll be blamed on some sort of mass hysteria. A mob mentality moment.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Ben Wallace. if he doesn't overreact, he shoots 2 freethrows. People aren't going to be throwing stuff when someone is shooting freethrows.
    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

  6. #6
    Old as Dirt
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    Wink Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    The 50 or fewer so called fan.started it: Palace Security was no where to be found till it had turned into a riot. And I for one feel sorry for the around 20,000 good fans.

  7. #7
    Offical Thread Killer TheSauceMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    There is way to much blame on all parties to point at one specific reason , like the prosecutor said " If Mr Green Doesn't throw the cup , we aren't here"

    I dunno if I can point a finger at one person honestly , there was alot of over reaction and bad choices that night from top to bottom.

  8. #8
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    The FIRST thing I think of is Ben Wallace, simply because his overreaction was the first "act" in this whole mess that had 0 to do with basketball. Yeah, some whine about Ron's foul, but it was fair, not even a flagrant, and nothing to cry over. I'm talking that the shove was the first negative thing that happened that had nothing to do with the game being played, other than what made him mad enough to do it.

  9. #9
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Now, so we're clear, I don't feel Ben is most at blame, I simply said what first came to mind as a cause of the whole thing. When talking the "big reasons" I look at the fans and I look at Ron Artest.

  10. #10
    Member Alabama-Redneck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    I believe it starts with security, followed by the fans, Artest and then Wallace.

    The statement "it was only a cup of ice" is true but what if it was a chair. One was thrown. I don't believe the object thrown is as relevant as the act of throwing it.

    The security was non-existant. The first position is to protect the visiting team. That means becoming a barrier between the fans and the players.

    When the altercation erupted on the floor between Artest and Wallace, security should have been in a defensive mode by protecting the players. Instead, if you look at the tapes, none were in position by the Pacer's bench. If you also look close, you will find red shirts on the floor by the Piston's bench.

    Who do you think needs more protection?

    I still think the funny thing was the officer wanting to spray Ron when Ron was standing in the middle of the floor but totally ignoring some of the fans out on the floor trying to start a fight. Where do you think his loyality resides??

    I think there is enough blame for everyone to have a big piece of it.

    Rumor has it, Stern wanted to suspend the entire team for the rest of the year because Pacer fans, at home watching it on TV, was cheering for the Pacers players. I don't know if that is true but it is just another rumor.


  11. #11
    stipo
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    On second thought, I blame Mark Boyle for being unable to make a good tackle on Ron.

  12. #12
    stipo
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    Fine, so what if Ron had shoved the guys face so hard his neck broke? You can't play the "what if" game and substitute at will under these circumstances.
    I think Alabama has a good point. It speaks to the whole "no matter what don't go into the stands" argument.

  13. #13
    pb777
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    I blame both Wallace and the refs.

    If Ben doesnt go at Ron the riot never happens. If Ben doesnt throw a towel ot Ron the cup may have never been thrown.

    If the refs would have done their JOB and ejected Ben immediatly the riot never happens. I thought this was a joke. Why was Ben on the court still? Cuz the refs were incompitant to handle the situation. I mean isnt it in their job description to eject players and make sure ejected players leave the court? WTF?

  14. #14
    stipo
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    If we could only harness the energy used on these Artest and/or Detroit threads, it would burn as bright and hot as a thousand suns!

  15. #15
    stipo
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Of course it's a distraction for fans and media. It's even a distraction that many like because it's something to talk about. The debatable question is whether it's a distraction for the team, and that's the only thing that matters really. Of course, we've debated that here already, which is good because my wife is calling me right now!

  16. #16
    stipo
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    btown, one more thing--I'm as ready to move on as you are.

  17. #17
    Member Alabama-Redneck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    Okay, so what if he had thrown a bag of feces? Or a crack pipe? Or his mother-in-law? Do we need to make certain rules under certain circumstances for every possible thing a fan might touch in his life?




    PS- The chairs in that area are bolted down. They wouldn't be getting thrown. And if he ran to another section with temporary seating, took a chair, ran back and threw one, you STILL don't go into the stands. Sorry.
    I agree Ron should not have gone into the stands under any circumstances but as I stated " the object thrown is not as relevant as the act of throwing it".

    I think back to a couple years ago in football, when the lineman was hit in the eye and blinded by the ref's flag. That is unusual but anything can happen when something is thrown.

    Retaliation is a personal thing and everyone has a different view or tolerance level. I know my fuse was pretty short when I was younger but age and maturity mellows the worst of us.


  18. #18
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    If you are asking for my first reaction to who is to blame your not gonna like it.

    I'm not saying he is all to blame, but there is some clear culpability on his part but now in thinking about it it might go even deeper.

    I was going to say I blame Rick Carlisle. Ron was losing it at half-time just go back & watch the interview he did with Jim Grey. He is complaining about lack of foul calls at the half. Then when Ben put him down on the floor I knew there would be problems.

    Why did Carlisle leave the guy on the floor with that little time left & that big of a lead. He already had taken out J.O. & Cro. It was just a disaster waiting to happen.

    But then that makes me think there should be another person to blame, because what I'm saying is that Carlisle should have known that Ron does not react well to certain issues. So then that kind of makes Ron the issue again. But then everybody knows Ron has this problem so ultimately I have to go to Walsh. But that is getting really carried away & away from the intent of what your question is.

    I don't think there is one single person to blame for this but I will give you a list of four that I feel are the most culpable & Share equal blame.

    1. Carlisle for leaving Artest in.
    2. The Refs. for doing a lousy crappy job of getting the situation under control.
    3. Ron Artest, for being Ron Artest.
    4. John Green for throwing the cup.

    But if I have to single out one of the above I am going to go with the NBA refs. for doing the single worst job of controling a situation I've ever seen. You said it best, if Joey Crawford had been there this would never have occured.

  19. #19
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    The refs. Their lax enforcemnet of the rules allowed too much physical play that escalated into everything.

  20. #20
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    I have to speak up about blaming Rick Carlisle. I think that's absurd. He shouldn't be expected to pull Ron out of any game in which we gain a big lead that we've only had for a few minutes at best. If we had had the game wrapped up for 5 minutes already I might begin to agree, but it wasn't too long ago that we were only up 5. Considering the opposition, I don't blame leaving one of your best players in to make sure nothing (in game) goes wrong and causes a fluke loss. Rick was probably (and justly) thinking of injuries when he started sitting the starters, and of Ron, JO, and Croshere, we can all agree Ron is the absolute least likely to get injuried in those final 2 minutes.

    If I were a betting man, I'd bet big money that that was Rick's thinking in pulling certain stars and not others, and that's EASILY the norm around the league for head coaches when it comes to deciding who to start sitting. I think it's a giant stretch to put this on him in any way. Not even Rick, having a guy like Ron here, should be honestly expected to think "Gee, if I don't pull him soon, he might start a riot, I better get him out" (you know what I mean).

    Secondly, you bring up Ron 'beginning to lose it at half-time'. So Rick was watching him be interviewed by Jim Gray, first of all? No, he's heading to the locker room. And second and more importantly here, Ron not being happy with the refs is NOT an indicator of him "losing it". Never has been IMO.

    IMO this is a riduculous stretch in an attempt to find someone to blame, if only partially. Without the riot, no one would even BEGIN to think about this (Rick being wrong to leave Ron in).

    Crazy.

  21. #21
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama-Redneck
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    I think back to a couple years ago in football, when the lineman was hit in the eye and blinded by the ref's flag. That is unusual but anything can happen when something is thrown.



    That football player got millions of dollars in a large insurance settlement because of that incident.

  22. #22
    Banned JOneal7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Detroit Fans caused the "Riot" with ben wallace coming in a very close second! It would have been all good had the idiot not thrown the beer. But then again if Wallace just shoots his FT's THEN NOTHING HAPPENS!

  23. #23
    recap
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    Can I answer "all of the above"? The riot is no one person or fan's fault. I guess that I pretty evenly blame the fans, security, and the Pacers. I don't really blame Wallace.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    I blame the Detriot security and the culture the NBA has allowed to grow among stands for the incident. I blame Ron for getting the Pacers involved in it.

  25. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who do you blame most for the riot in the Palace.

    I wasn't really sure where this thread would go.

    I wonder who Stern thinks is most to blame. Oh wait we know who he thinks is most to blame,

    In order, Artest, then Jackson and then J.O. And a little bit on Ben Wallace. Does he blame the refs, I don't know if he has fined them but I have been watching and it seems all three refs have been officiating as many games as ever. Were they suspended for even one game, did they even get a call from Ronnie Nunn or Stern about their failure to do there job. No as a matter of fact Stern said they handled it just the way they are supposed to.

    Does Stern blame the Pistons security, he seems to be making some changes, but God forbid he would even reprimand the Pistons organization, and he has been quoted as saying he won't fine the Pistons organization.

    Does Stern punish the Pistons fans at all, not that I know of.

    Amazing.

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