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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Granger to begin practicing soon?

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  • #91
    Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
    I think Paul keeping the ball more benefits Danny, look at how many good looks Green gets and doesn't hit. Now put Danny taking those shots.
    No doubt that Danny taking those shots instead of Green is a huge deal.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    • #92
      Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

      Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
      Saying he should reduce his usage rate from 25% to 20% doesn't mean I want him to be a "spectator." Far from it. Right now West's usage rate is at 25%. I think that should, and will come down a bit with Granger's return.
      Mackey, I absolutely agree with your thought process on their usage rate. I in theory would love to see our starters all pretty much even in terms of usage rate, with one game to the next being absolutely unpredictable. I think PG should be the highest in usage with West and Granger shortly behind over the course of the rest of the season. I would also like to see Hill and Hibbert's usage slightly behind those three.

      Outside of usage, I think the big thing for when Danny gets back is that he looks to pass more than he ever has in his career. He needs to be more focused on making quicker passing decisions and crisper passes. His (and Hill and PG) three point shooting is going to really allow him to fake and get into the mid range. Danny has much better teammates than ever before and his passing will be the key to his efficiency.

      This team needs to make much better passing decisions and much quicker passing decisions as a whole. Those back cuts from the high post killed us against Orlando when we pressed hard to the perimeter. That is a little JOB that would be a nice touch in our offense once Granger gets back.
      Last edited by pacergod2; 01-17-2013, 05:40 PM.
      "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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      • #93
        Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
        I don't think that Paul George "needs to continue learning" or that Danny back "is going to stop his grow" my point is that Paul George is the man right now and as the man he should be the one with the ball in his hands must of the time, removing the ball from Paul George to give it to Danny could be a huge mistake in my opinion, not only for the now but for the future.
        Frankly, I don't know why this is a discussion.....I expect that Granger would take away shots from everyone in the Starting Lineup...not just PG. I don't expect the distribution of shots to be limited to Granger taking ALL of Lance's shots ( roughly 7 FGA over the last month ) when Granger replaces Lance in the Starting lineup...while leaving PG with the same 15 FGA that he regularly takes.

        If Granger's return means that PG and the rest of the Starting Lineup will EACH be taking 1-2 less FGA, then so be it...that's the way it works.

        The only thing that I DO NOT want to see is what happened often last season and the season before that....when Granger gets the ball.....everyone else just stands around and watches. I don't want that and really hope that this doesn't happen....for the very reasons that you mention.

        Granger no longer is the best Player on the Team....he's important but he's not the best. But that doesn't mean that PG automatically gets the ball every time, it just means that having Granger back in the lineup will just mean that it takes off scoring and defensive pressure off of PG, West, GH and Hibbert...which is a good thing.

        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
        And also as Reggie said "Paul George is the new face of the Pacers", we all need to get used to that.
        I get that he's the face of the franchise...but I like the "Team first, not Me first" mentality that we have seen from the Team as a whole since the beginning of the season. Despite PGs "leap forward" after the horrific ZERO pt outing against the Ws.....the Pacers have been winning because they were winning as a Team.....not because PG was taking the most shots in a game. Some wins....yes, we would see PG be "The Man" one night to win the game....and then it's GH that's "The Man" the other....then West shouldering the burden the next....and "so on and so on".

        I could honestly care less if PG is the leading Scorer or Player taking the most shots...I just care about the Team operating as one and winning games that way.
        Last edited by CableKC; 01-17-2013, 05:42 PM.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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        • #94
          Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

          Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
          Hahaha, you are a trip. It's pretty easy to compare Danny Granger from 2011-2012 to Paul George in 2012-2013. By almost any measure, they are basically exactly the same.

          http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ngda01&y2=2012

          Let's examine what is statistically signifcant in mattie's world.

          A true shooting percentage difference of 2% in Granger's favor? The beginning of the argument, and the end. Granger is clearly the better scorer.

          The fact that Paul George has a higher FG%, higher eFG%, and is essentially equal to Granger in any measure of efficiency besides FT%? Completely irrelevant.

          That 7% difference in FT% is what creates the 2% difference in TS%. That's the only thing that matters here. Like I said, it isn't just clear. It's crystal.
          Well to be fair if you are asking if I'd like to add a second offensive player as good as Paul has been then I shout "Yes Please!".

          Danny takes a role to Paul and West like Wade accepts his "role" compared to Bosh and James. I think its safe to say that Wade ruining Miami's offense isn't in their top 20 issues.

          These 5 played solid offense together last year. To me expecting Danny's return to cause problems is like worrying what sunrise is going to do to the world. Based on this morning it should go pretty well.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

            Ideally Danny takes around 13-14 shots a games , hitting 5 or 6 of which 2 or 3 are 3's. gets 5 or6 free throws hitting 5 to give the Pacers 17-19 points a game. Decent defense and at least 5 boards a night. It would be like the Pacers making a major trade but giving up nothing adding that to the line up.

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            • #96
              Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
              No doubt that Danny taking those shots instead of Green is a huge deal.
              I don't know that Danny will get these shots as opposing defenses will be always aware of where he is on the floor. Nevertheless, he should get more open looks from beyond the arc than at any point in his career. Every game, I notice that Paul seems to get double teamed more and more often. Not always full double teams, but much more frequent and obvious shifting over towards him. I'm really looking forward to seeing how well Danny can play when we have another perimeter player demanding attention. He should have a lot more space for shots and to take his defender off the dribble.

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              • #97
                Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                But there is a reason Green is getting those looks, teams are CHEATING off him to attack other players. So either Danny is wide open or driving past a hard close out, or some interior player or dribble drive attack isn't being doubled very hard. Pick the poison, Danny's 3, West at the rim, Paul driving the lane...heck, Lance driving, Roy in the post, Ian inside, people will see the attention drift harder to Danny than it has with Green, or Danny will make them pay until they do start paying attention.



                To me it's obvious that fans have just forgotten what it looks like with all 5 of these guys together, and people have become accustomed to just watching some of the clunky offense get bailed out by great defense night after night. Danny is going to seem like an amazing addition if he simply brings last year's game to the court.

                And if Danny can hit the 3 on the road in the way that Paul has not, well that will stand out twice as much.

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                • #98
                  Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                  Originally posted by diamonddave00 View Post
                  Ideally Danny takes around 13-14 shots a games , hitting 5 or 6 of which 2 or 3 are 3's. gets 5 or6 free throws hitting 5 to give the Pacers 17-19 points a game. Decent defense and at least 5 boards a night. It would be like the Pacers making a major trade but giving up nothing adding that to the line up.
                  It will be our Rasheed.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                    As the resident Granger fan/apologist I will make this statement of Paul vs. Danny.

                    If Danny comes back and the team wins with him as the lead player then I'm all for it. If Danny comes back and the teams loses because he is the lead player than I am totally against it.

                    In other words whatever is best for the one thing we are all supposed to be fans of "the Indiana Pacers". If that means that Danny returns and takes back his role, great.

                    If it means that Paul has already passed him by and Danny has to take a secondary role then as the Jem'Hadar say "that is the order of things".

                    I'll keep reminding everyone, we do not have a Batman & Robin situation here. We have the Avengers, we were never designed to be built around superstar players. Paul may someday come to that though, I won't deny he has that type of potential.

                    Either way as long as the Indiana Pacers win then at the end of the day that is all that I care about.


                    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                    • Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                      @MikeWellsNBA: Danny Granger (knee) did shooting drills in shootaround today w next step being non-contact activities during team's West Coast trip

                      @MikeWellsNBA: The plan still - barring any setbacks - is for Granger to return to the lineup in early February

                      Comment


                      • Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                        Originally posted by PurduePacer View Post
                        @MikeWellsNBA: Danny Granger (knee) did shooting drills in shootaround today w next step being non-contact activities during team's West Coast trip

                        @MikeWellsNBA: The plan still - barring any setbacks - is for Granger to return to the lineup in early February


                        Not many teams will be adding a career 19PPG scorer to their lineups this February.


                        Comment


                        • Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                          Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
                          Nobody said that.

                          We said that was his ceiling, which he hasn't reached. You're obtuse.
                          I will always think of Shawshank Redemption when the word obtuse is used. That is all.
                          Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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                          • Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                            Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                            I think it will help sure. I don't think it will push us over the top.

                            More than anything, I guess I'm just skeptical that Granger will buy in defensively and accept a role offensively the way we need him to in order for it to be anything more than a superficial upgrade.
                            Did you miss the entire 2011-12 season? Danny played his best defense of his career last year and yet you're not sure he'll buy in defensively?

                            I don't get how so many people forget how good Danny Granger is. Even in a down year FG% wise (from 2) he averaged 18.7 ppg in just 33 minutes per game. No one on the team is currently averaging that much. It wasn't because he was a chucker either. As his average has decreased the past 3 seasons, so have his attempts and minutes played.

                            If he's healthy, I doubt he'll come back and average less than 15 points per game. He's too good from 3 and he gets to the free throw line more than anyone currently on the team (career average of 4.9 attempts per game). Offensively, the team will be much more efficient as soon as he's back in the lineup.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                              Originally posted by Peck View Post
                              As the resident Granger fan/apologist .
                              Thanks for admitting it
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

                                Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                                Did you miss the entire 2011-12 season? Danny played his best defense of his career last year and yet you're not sure he'll buy in defensively?

                                I don't get how so many people forget how good Danny Granger is. Even in a down year FG% wise (from 2) he averaged 18.7 ppg in just 33 minutes per game. No one on the team is currently averaging that much. It wasn't because he was a chucker either. As his average has decreased the past 3 seasons, so have his attempts and minutes played.

                                If he's healthy, I doubt he'll come back and average less than 15 points per game. He's too good from 3 and he gets to the free throw line more than anyone currently on the team (career average of 4.9 attempts per game). Offensively, the team will be much more efficient as soon as he's back in the lineup.
                                Thank you!

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