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Thread: Granger to begin practicing soon?

  1. #51
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    He absolutely needs to accept a role offensively. He needs to accept that he still has to play defense with 100% effort, regardless of what happens on the offensive end. That hasn't been the case for him in the last several seasons.
    What role does he need to accept exactly? This team is currently ranked towards the bottom of the league offensively. We NEED another scorer, and so Idk what other role he would need to accept except to score the ball.

    He's the most accomplished scorer on the team. His style of offense (post ups, spot up 3's) will not interrupt Paul George's new offensive aggressiveness (most of his action comes with the ball in his hands, or running off screens)

    Last year he played better defensively (with more effort) than he had in previous seasons.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I agree.

    That's why I'm saying I don't think we've been significantly worse without him so far and don't expect we'll be significantly better with him.

    I do think it'll help, but I don't see it being a true game changer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    You don't think swapping Gerald Green for Danny Granger is gonna make us significantly better?
    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I think it will help sure. I don't think it will push us over the top.
    My question (not specifically to either of you) is how much better do we need to be then (at least this year)? What would it take to be a championship team? And what won't Granger give us that we need? Its hard to say without seeing how him and the new Paul George can play together, but I feel like the team without Granger has a small glimmer of a chance at the championship while the team with Granger has something like a 25-30% shot at it. What else do we need to be somewhere in the 75-80% range (a range I'd put the Heat, Spurs, Thunder in) as far as likelihood of becoming championship caliber this year?
    Last edited by Phree Refill; 01-17-2013 at 12:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    The biggest difference between last years offense and this years offense is 3pt% and FT%. Both of which were near the top of the league last year, and both of which are near the bottom this year. Granger's return I would not expect to improve the FT% much if at all, but he could significantly improve the 3pt% just by diminishing how many shots Green takes. That right there would make all the difference in the world, and isn't even taking into consideration indirect impact on putting other players into better positions to score.
    Don't forget the extra 5-6 FTA that Danny brings as well

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Going by OFF EFF, we had about the 9th best offense last year.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/year/2012

    If Danny is still Danny and not a shell of himself, then I don't see why we couldn't at least creep back up to the teens.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    My question (not specifically to either of you) is how much better do we need to be then (at least this year)? What would it take to be a championship team? And what won't Granger give us that we need? Its hard to say without seeing how him and the new Paul George can play together, but I feel like the team without Granger has a small glimmer of a chance at the championship while the team with Granger has something like a 25-30% shot at it. What else do we need to be somewhere in the 75-80% range (a range I'd put the Heat, Spurs, Thunder in) as far as likelihood of becoming championship caliber?
    This is the answer to your question: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...a-title-season
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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They predicted that Mcsuck was going to be the next Lamar Odom, I guess they were right but forgot to mention the out of shape broken down Lamar Odom part.
    Nobody said that.

    We said that was his ceiling, which he hasn't reached. You're obtuse.

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Don't forget the extra 5-6 FTA that Danny brings as well
    I am not going to predict that as too many variables are to be considered. Such as usage rate, ability to put himself in a position to be more likely to be fouled, amongst many more that are not as easily predictable as Granger's 3PT shot.

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    What role does he need to accept exactly? This team is currently ranked towards the bottom of the league offensively. We NEED another scorer, and so Idk what other role he would need to accept except to score the ball.

    He's the most accomplished scorer on the team. His style of offense (post ups, spot up 3's) will not interrupt Paul George's new offensive aggressiveness (most of his action comes with the ball in his hands, or running off screens)

    Last year he played better defensively (with more effort) than he had in previous seasons.
    He had a USG% of 25.9 last year. Paul George had a USG% of 19.3 last year, and is up to 23.8 this year.

    I think Granger needs to be willing to accept a role where he flips roles with Paul of last year. Give Granger around 20% and Paul around 25%.

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    He had a USG% of 25.9 last year. Paul George had a USG% of 19.3 last year, and is up to 23.8 this year.

    I think Granger needs to be willing to accept a role where he flips roles with Paul of last year. Give Granger around 20% and Paul around 25%.
    I disagree, as long as Granger comes back and is able to play at the same level, their usage rate should only be determined by who has the hot hand that day. If all things are equal, you should look to use them equally.

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    sounds good
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    He had a USG% of 25.9 last year. Paul George had a USG% of 19.3 last year, and is up to 23.8 this year.

    I think Granger needs to be willing to accept a role where he flips roles with Paul of last year. Give Granger around 20% and Paul around 25%.
    IDK that half a season of being a consistent scorer should automatically trump 5-6 seasons of being a good consistent scorer. Especially given that Paul generally doesn't play too well offensively on the road (yet)

    A lot of posters like to bash DG for his mediocre shooting percentages, but PG is shooting roughly the same % that Danny did last season. So with that said, it's not a given that Paul should be given free reign while Danny's usage should automatically be held back.

    Don't get me wrong, I WANT Paul to continue to be a high usage player, and to continue to be aggressive; I just think they're usage should be distributed a little more evenly than the 20% for DG and 25% for PG that you described

  16. #62
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Danny is still a much more efficient scorer, and as such he should receive the majority of touches.

    It is true though that Hill will simply feed the hot hand.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Don't get me wrong, I WANT Paul to continue to be a high usage player, and to continue to be aggressive; I just think they're usage should be distributed a little more evenly than the 20% for DG and 25% for PG that you described
    How about adjusting on a game-by-game basis considering who is doing well with the favorable matchup? If the plays are designed to go to evenly, then you can pick and choose based on actual game outcome.
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Nobody said that.

    We said that was his ceiling, which he hasn't reached. You're obtuse.
    I think he has.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/617/lamar-odom

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/josh_mcroberts/


    Good job.

  21. #65
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Comparing a guy drafted 37th to a guy drafted 4th overall. That's pretty spectacular.

    A fringe NBA player a multiple NBA champion. Priceless.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  22. #66

    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Granger should take back seat to Paul when it comes to usage IMO, not only because Paul's 10x the offensive facilitator, but also because he's the future of the franchise and needs to continue his development. It's not all about scoring the basketball to me.

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  24. #67
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    This year PG's TS% is .52, while Danny's was .54 while both of those numbers need to improve, it's pretty clear Danny is still the best scorer at the moment. Hopefully they'll be able to help eachother.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    This year PG's TS% is .52, while Danny's was .54 while both of those numbers need to improve, it's pretty clear Danny is still the best scorer at the moment. Hopefully they'll be able to help eachother.
    A TS% difference of 0.02 when one of them hasn't played a single minute this year. Clear? Crystal.

  26. #69
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    A TS% difference of 0.02 when one of them hasn't played a single minute this year. Clear? Crystal.
    I don't have to do the math for you again do I? I mean holy **** how ****ing stupid are you?

    You realize that that 2% actually makes a big difference right??

    Again, it is incredibly anyone ever takes you serious. You don't understand statistics at all, the best analysis you provide is comparing fringe NBA players to NBA champions.

    Folks, get a grip, this guy is seriously stupid. I'm going to block him just so I don't have to read his spectacularly idiotic posts again and again.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  27. #70
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    He absolutely needs to accept a role offensively. He needs to accept that he still has to play defense with 100% effort, regardless of what happens on the offensive end. That hasn't been the case for him in the last several seasons.
    Just to clarify... what does "That" refer to in this post? 100% effort on defense, or both that AND accepting a role offensively?

    Because I thought he did a great job of accepting his offensive role last year.
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  29. #71
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Problem solved, my boarding experience just became much more informative.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  30. #72
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I don't have to do the math for you again do I? I mean holy **** how ****ing stupid are you?

    You realize that that 2% actually makes a big difference right??

    Again, it is incredibly anyone ever takes you serious. You don't understand statistics at all, the best analysis you provide is comparing fringe NBA players to NBA champions.

    Folks, get a grip, this guy is seriously stupid. I'm going to block him just so I don't have to read his spectacularly idiotic posts again and again.
    I hear he is racist too.

    I'm going to do some math now.

    52% and 54% yes that is a core diff of 2% you are absolutely right, but the difference between the numbers 52 and 54 is 2, which is a difference of about 4%. Which basically means that with PG having a TS% of 52% and Danny having a TS% of 54% that for every 100 shots each one takes (roughly), Danny will hit about 4 more of them. Which I mean is an advantage, but it's not a huge difference. Right now I want Paul to remain our number 1 perimeter guy offensively when Danny returns. Math is fun. And even then this is bending the rules of TS% quite a bit to even make it slightly more advantageous to Danny since if you look it is free throws mostly giving him a boost.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 01-17-2013 at 01:39 PM.

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  32. #73
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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I don't have to do the math for you again do I? I mean holy **** how ****ing stupid are you?

    You realize that that 2% actually makes a big difference right??

    Again, it is incredibly anyone ever takes you serious. You don't understand statistics at all, the best analysis you provide is comparing fringe NBA players to NBA champions.

    Folks, get a grip, this guy is seriously stupid. I'm going to block him just so I don't have to read his spectacularly idiotic posts again and again.
    Hahaha, you are a trip. It's pretty easy to compare Danny Granger from 2011-2012 to Paul George in 2012-2013. By almost any measure, they are basically exactly the same.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ngda01&y2=2012

    Let's examine what is statistically signifcant in mattie's world.

    A true shooting percentage difference of 2% in Granger's favor? The beginning of the argument, and the end. Granger is clearly the better scorer.

    The fact that Paul George has a higher FG%, higher eFG%, and is essentially equal to Granger in any measure of efficiency besides FT%? Completely irrelevant.

    That 7% difference in FT% is what creates the 2% difference in TS%. That's the only thing that matters here. Like I said, it isn't just clear. It's crystal.

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  34. #74

    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I don't have to do the math for you again do I? I mean holy **** how ****ing stupid are you?

    You realize that that 2% actually makes a big difference right??

    Again, it is incredibly anyone ever takes you serious. You don't understand statistics at all, the best analysis you provide is comparing fringe NBA players to NBA champions.

    Folks, get a grip, this guy is seriously stupid. I'm going to block him just so I don't have to read his spectacularly idiotic posts again and again.
    You don't understand the game of basketball... at all.

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    Default Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Just to clarify... what does "That" refer to in this post? 100% effort on defense, or both that AND accepting a role offensively?

    Because I thought he did a great job of accepting his offensive role last year.
    I was referring to him giving full effort on defense.

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