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Thread: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

  1. #1
    Member presto123's Avatar
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    Question Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    I'm not one that sits around and analyzes every game but I do catch the majority of the games and this is really something that has stuck out to me. Anybody else notice this?

    Whether it's Hill, George, Green or whoever it seems 90 percent of the time they ignore the trailer guy(or guys) and often times miss the shot or get it blocked. I think we are leaving easy points on the floor many games because of this fact.

    Just wanted to point this out since I've noticed it many times. Not meant to be a ***** thread because I've really enjoyed the team for the last couple years.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    I've noticed it, too. Don't care for this trend at all. But we don't have anyone who is pass-first on this team, so I guess it should be expected.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    On the other hand, we seem to convert quite a few of the fast breaks and/or get fouled in the process. Better than making a bad / mis-timed pass that ends up in the 3rd row. Sometimes the best basketball play is to keep the ball and finish off the backboard. (Other times, as you point out, the best basketball play is to dump the ball off to a finisher).

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    Hoosier for Life CreekShow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    PG is really the only one I've noticed, and he usually maneuvers through the defense, hits it or gets fouled.
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreekShow View Post
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    PG is really the only one I've noticed, and he usually maneuvers through the defense, hits it or gets fouled.
    And doesn't get the call.

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    Pacers fan in FL Deadshot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    And it seems like our guys have trouble finishing at the rim. The good thing is that the trailer often tips in the putback.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreekShow View Post
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    PG is really the only one I've noticed, and he usually maneuvers through the defense, hits it or gets fouled.
    It's usually George Hill. The answer to the question is because we have two good passers (Lance & Augustin) and two above average guys (Hill and George), the former of the two preferring not to take risks (with any of his passes), and the latter knowing him taking it in himself is the team's best option. If Lance is the first guy to the paint--as is often the case--then who is going to throw him the ball?

    I do think it's something that should be addressed, but I don't think it's costing the Pacers wins at this point. In the playoffs you have to take those points, though.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    We love the euro step.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Actually, I thought our team has looked slightly better at converting fast breaks this year. Still lots of room for improvement, but the trend is up.

    That's just my eyes, though. Anybody got stats to back it up one way or another?
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    The majority of our team has trouble determining when the right time to pass in a 2 on 1 situation. Most defenders in the NBA are smart enough not to commit to either player until the last second. This forces the pass to be at just the right time. However just last game, Gerald Green and David West were on a break against Keith Bogans. Green made a relatively early pass that I feared would result in DWest attempting an alley-oop back to Green. Fortunately Bogans, obviously deciding he wasn't getting dunked on, stayed with Green after the pass allowing West a complete pass to the rim for a layup.

    However you are right, both Paul and Hill keep it too often. But lately they have been successfully scoring on these possessions.
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    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    I've noticed it too. I would like for at least George Hill to consider passing it in these situations if he is truly committed to becoming more of a true point guard.

    It would also help our low assist numbers if we passed in these situations.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    The spacing on the fast break is terrible. Everyone wants to run in a group instead of spreading out and make the defense have to make a decision.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Actually, I thought our team has looked slightly better at converting fast breaks this year. Still lots of room for improvement, but the trend is up.

    That's just my eyes, though. Anybody got stats to back it up one way or another?
    This year we're #20 in fast break points per game and #11 in fast break efficiency.

    Last year we were #16 in fast break points per game but #15 in fast break efficiency.

    We are more efficient this year but we score more off fast breaks last year. That's probably due to us gambling more on D last year than this year.

    In any case, I'm pleased with the progress.
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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama-Redneck View Post
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    The spacing on the fast break is terrible. Everyone wants to run in a group instead of spreading out and make the defense have to make a decision.

    Yep, spacing is the number one issue. First of all, the dribbler has a problem getting to the middle of the floor, then the wings have trouble....getting to the wings. We can't make a pass at the right time because there are no right times. Or the dribbler outruns the wings down the floor or vice versa. And, to top it off, the dribblers are usually below average passers at their position. George Hill is a great passer in transition but not after he gets past the three point line. Augustin is a good passer but he waits too long and is too small to see around defenders. Gerald Green makes bad decisions. Paul George is pretty good but he's usually not dribbling. Lance is our best in the fast break, but sometimes outruns everyone and doesn't finish well.

    I actually think we're slightly worse this season. One of Darren Collison's strengths was that he was a fantastic finisher, especially for his size. He is a one-man fast break and doesn't need teammates to successfully make a play. Granger is a great finisher too, and not having him out there hurts.

    I think our problems can be coached up, but some of the errors we make are strange. Learning where to be on a fast break is taught in middle school and high school, so the fact that our guys can't figure it out while conquering a defensive scheme that is one of the best in NBA history is puzzling.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Actually, I thought our team has looked slightly better at converting fast breaks this year. Still lots of room for improvement, but the trend is up.

    That's just my eyes, though. Anybody got stats to back it up one way or another?
    I agree, I think they've been told unless they have a good pass then take it strong the rim. Last season I just remember countless turnovers on the break. Lance and DJ seem to pass reasonably well on the break, but nobody else really does it well.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    It would also help our low assist numbers if we passed in these situations.
    Who cares what are "assist numbers" are at, if we are making the correct plays? The point of statistics isn't for players to look at them and try to maximize every category. The point of statitistics is to give one an idea of how teams and players are doing, and what areas may need improvement. So if our assists numbers are low, maybe we need to look at making more passes (if we're taking quick bad shots), but we shouldn't try to pass the ball just to get the assist numbers up, when a pass is not the best basketball play to make. That makes no sense at all. The only statistic that counts is W's, and the best way to get those W's is to make the best basketball play every time. None of the rest really matters.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    This has been a problem for a few years now. I've actually thought it has been a little better this year, simply because Collison is gone, and he always had blinders on.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    I do think it is better this year.

    You would have to do a complete analysis to see if this is a real problem or not. I mean there are times when a guy could give it up, but generally speaking if the ball handler can score or get fouled without giving the ball up it is a better percentage play not to give it up. Possiblity of a turnover is much less if the ball handler keeps it himself. If the defense doesn't stop the ball then there is no reason to pass.

    My point isn't to suggest we shouldn't pass, but only to point out there are times when it is better to not pass.

    What I have more problems with is we try too many alley oops. Unless it is obviously there, I wish we would not. Two point is two points whether we get a great alley-opps that makes Sportcenter or just an old fashioned layup. It counts the same and it is all the same to me.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-15-2013 at 08:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Actually, I thought our team has looked slightly better at converting fast breaks this year. Still lots of room for improvement, but the trend is up.

    That's just my eyes, though. Anybody got stats to back it up one way or another?
    This year's team is WAY better than last year's team - especially before they got Barbosa who was the only player that was good - at scoring on the break.

    There have been several alley-oops this year on the fast break with one or 2 in each of the last 2 games. If PG or Lance has the ball on the break, the best play is usually to keep it and take it to the hoop. I think they probably hit 70% of those shots or get fouled trying.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Also I just want to mention, if you are someone who primarily watches college ball and even a little high school and maybe only watch the NBA when the Pacers play. In the NBA it is much more common for the ball handler to not pass the ball when compared to other levels of basketball. I would theorize because in the open court wing NBA players are so good, they can score without help of a pass. Where as in college they need to pass the ball more.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-15-2013 at 01:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    It's really just setup by the defense. If a defender is going to allow the offensive player to get 5ft away from the rim, then there's no reason to dump it off. You keep going towards the basket, until someone stops you, and then you give it up.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Learning where to be on a fast break is taught in middle school and high school, so the fact that our guys can't figure it out while conquering a defensive scheme that is one of the best in NBA history is puzzling.
    That alone is the #1 problem. It doesn't matter how many we have on the break, that's how many players will be in the lane before the shot is even taken. Pathetic. These guys totally miss the concept of a trailer, and for the life of me I don't know why. Because the vast majority of shots in a break are taken either by the dribbler or the trailer and the intermediate guy(s) are more often than not decoys.

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    Default Re: Why Will Nobody Give The Ball Up On Fast Breaks?

    Welcome to the NBA, where most basketball fundamentals get tossed out the window. Lance is pretty good at finding the open man during a fast break however.

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