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Thread: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

  1. #51

    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    What a fascinating post. Obviously, I'd hate the idea. Let's take Danny out of the equation for a moment, and just focus on Calderon. Let's say we could swap Calderon for DJ (I know the numbers don't work; just pretend with me).

    Does anybody besides the original poster think that Calderon would be in the starting lineup if we made that trade? Seriously, I'd like to hear from you.
    Calderon would be a better fit in our starting lineup because hes a pass first type point guard.

    He would fit much better with a George/Granger duo at SG/SF compared to a scoring PG in George Hill.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    Calderon would be a better fit in our starting lineup because hes a pass first type point guard.

    He would fit much better with a George/Granger duo at SG/SF compared to a scoring PG in George Hill.
    What about the other end of the court? Any positive Calderon gives you on the offensive side is more than negated by his shockingly awful defense.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Jose Calderon is the "Troy Murphy" of the Point Guard world.
    No he is not.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    If the Pacers ever traded Granger for Calderon, there would be a contingent of PD members that would then start to complain how Murphy was a better defender than Calderon is.

    The reality is that for every Player....with the exception of the Golden Boy....there will always be something to complain about while looking for an upgrade....why? cuz the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    What about the other end of the court? Any positive Calderon gives you on the offensive side is more than negated by his shockingly awful defense.
    The Pacers have few players that don't help on the other side of the court either and I don't see any of you talking about it.

    Note that I'm happy with Hill so I'm not a Hill hater.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers have few players that don't help on the other side of the court either and I don't see any of you talking about it.

    Note that I'm happy with Hill so I'm not a Hill hater.
    Yeah...but I'm guessing that none of them are the starters and whatever value that one may think that Granger has.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    No he is not.
    Overpaid? Check.
    Stats Hog? Check.
    No Defense? Check.

    Nice tan? Ok, you got me.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    I think the only way I would trade Granger is if we were able to upgrade significantly (like getting a Deron Williams), and we'd have to include more than just DG. I don't think there's a clear upgrade out there that doesn't change the dynamic of the team. Hill might not be the best point out there, but he is right for this team as constructed.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Overpaid? Check.
    Stats Hog? Check.
    No Defense? Check.

    Nice tan? Ok, you got me.
    Troy did have a pretty nice tan

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Yeah...but I'm guessing that none of them are the starters and whatever value that one may think that Granger has.
    One of them is an starter and also I wouldn't trade Danny for Calderon I don't think we need Calderon anymore, maybe as backup but I don't see it happening.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    I swear if a guy isn't elite at his position, there's always someone who wants to upgrade that position...normally after a loss where that player had a rough game.

    A few notes:
    1. Idk that many PG's would avg many assists in this system/ with these players (minus Granger). PG handles the ball quite a bit, as does West out of the high post. It's just the offense we run.
    2. We trade DG for Calderon, we're going into the playoffs with a wing rotation of PG, Hill (too small to play the 2 full time IMO) Lance (basically a rookie) green (inconsistent) and OJ (rookie) no thanks
    3. You move Hill from the starters, and we are no longer elite defensively. You're not this good defensively without pretty good D at the point of attack from your PG. at the 1, George has elite length. He may not be an elite individual defender, but he's a great team defender. Even yesterday when everyone claimed he was getting demolished, D.Williams still shot 7-18(38%)
    4. Hill has been clutch a lot more often than not for this team. He's also normally a low turnover player at the point.
    5. Great record last yr as a starter, great record this yr with him as a starter. DC did well with this team as well, but it's no coincidence this team hit it's stride with Hill as the starter

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
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    I think the only way I would trade Granger is if we were able to upgrade significantly (like getting a Deron Williams), and we'd have to include more than just DG. I don't think there's a clear upgrade out there that doesn't change the dynamic of the team. Hill might not be the best point out there, but he is right for this team as constructed.
    The way Deron has been playing this season, I'm not sure you could call him a "significant upgrade."

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    Calderon would be a better fit in our starting lineup because hes a pass first type point guard.

    He would fit much better with a George/Granger duo at SG/SF compared to a scoring PG in George Hill.
    I disagree. PG has shown he's much better with the ball in his hands and it's good to have a PG spotting up off the ball IMO

  18. #64
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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Overpaid? Check.
    Stats Hog? Check.
    No Defense? Check.

    Nice tan? Ok, you got me.
    Darren Collison had the best tan of all. But he got traded D:
    follow me @TruenoPanda - lets talk Pacers!

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Randolph_HorseLips View Post
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    Among qualified point gaurds, George Hill is 35th in the NBA in assists per 48 minutes.
    But he is #13 in Assist to Turnovers Ratio with 2.73.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randolph_HorseLips View Post
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    He is 19th in field-goal percentage.
    And #17 in PPS (Points per Shot). By the way, want to know who is #2 in PPS? Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by Randolph_HorseLips View Post
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    The Pacers are 28th in the NBA in team assists. 28th! Only the Cavs and Bobcats are worse. As much as I like this team, the problem I see is that we just may be the worst passing team in the NBA. We have TOO MANY shoot-first players. I'm fine with David West and Paul George taking this role, but when guys like George Hill, Green, and even Hansborough operate as if they never realized passing was an option, then I fear we have a problem.
    We're 28th in assists because we employ a power-post heavy offense. Memphis utilizes a similar style and they're 22nd in team assists.

    We don't have many shoot-first players. I disagree with that notion. We just don't have enough shot happy players. Our players are not inclined to fire up a shot the moment they receive the ball. Instead they will take one or two dribbles to get themselves closer to the hoop in a better position to hoop. Hill is not asked to penetrate and dish. Hill is asked to either play a PnR with West or throw an entry pass and then spot up. You don't generate a high number of assists playing that way.

    We play a conservative offensive style. We don't attempt risky plays.

    Last year, people blamed that on DC. Now, they blame it on Hill. But it's neither of them. It's our offense. Our offense is ugly and slow but that's what sets up our defense.

    I love traditional, pass-first point guards. But the Pacers offense is a terrible fit for them. We would make every pass-first PG in the NBA look bad in our system.

    We want four things from our PGs:

    1) Defend

    2) Hit spot-up shots

    3) Take care of the ball

    4) Make a correct entry pass

    Hill does all of those things. He's also a great rebounder and an all-around player. I'm very happy with him.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers have few players that don't help on the other side of the court either and I don't see any of you talking about it.
    Name 3 of them.

    You could make a case about David West but he has been good defensively this year.

    You also have a case about DJ Augustin but even he has been surprisingly pesky in 2013.

    No other player in our roster can be considered a bad defender.
    Last edited by Nuntius; 01-15-2013 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Typo :D
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Defense for one. Pedigree for another.
    Not sure if Pedigree was meant to include clutch, toughness and will to win or not. Either way they are mentioned formally now.



    I've never seen so many people trying to dismantle a team just 2 games off the conference lead and at a point when they have hit a high point in wins per 10. You look at Miami's home and road records and they are both almost identical to the Pacers.

    The offense hasn't had a lot of consistent shooting from more than any one player at a time, but even with that the team looks MUCH better when Hill is playing than when he's not.

    The Pacers play a certain style that happens to be conducive to Hill getting lots of scoring and bigs like West and Hibbert getting a lot of assists.

    They also happen to be the top defensive team in the league by a fair margin. So by all means, let's see Donnie and Pritch "fix it".



    Welcome, but dang....aren't there already some "I hate Hill" threads to jump into and bump instead? It wasn't trolling but it sure was something of an inflammatory first subject.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Name 3 of them.

    You could make a case about David West but he has good defensively this year.

    You also have a case about DJ Augustin but even he has been surprisingly pesky in 2013.

    No other player in our roster can be considered a bad defender.
    I'd say the last 3-4 weeks West has moved to the #3 defender on the team* with the way he's reading that end of the court and getting after it as a help defender. Very disruptive, lots of deflections and challenges on drives or shots.




    *I hated to lose Sam's defense because he was the team's #3 defender and could almost challenge Paul as a wing defender at times, though more as an on-ball guy than having Paul's ability to cover ground and get into passing lanes.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I've never seen so many people trying to dismantle a team.
    Nobody is asking to dismantle the team stop making stuff up.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    West as the 3rd best defender on the team? wow....

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    Hill is reminding more of a poor man's Billups. I'm actually encouraged by his pg play more than I was last year.

    The test will be in the playoffs when teams try to PnR him to death again.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The test will be in the playoffs when teams try to PnR him to death again.
    Hill is not the problem in our PnR D, though. Hibs is.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Hill is not the problem in our PnR D, though. Hibs is.
    Against Miami, they didn't even involve hibbert.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Against Miami, they didn't even involve hibbert.
    They'd rather try to pull Hibbert away from the ball.

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    Default Re: From a New User: Upgrade at Point Guard Needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Against Miami, they didn't even involve hibbert.
    They did, actually. Their philosophy revolved around floaters and pulling Hibbert away from the basket.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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