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Thread: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

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    Default The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Team/year/Opponents FG%

    1. San Antonio Spurs 1998-99 .402
    2. New York Knicks 1998-99 .403
    3. San Antonio Spurs 2003-04 .409
    4. Miami Heat 1998-99 .411
    5. San Antonio Spurs 1997-98 .411
    6. Indiana Pacers 2012-13 .412
    7. Houston Rockets 2003-04 .412
    7. Detroit Pistons 2003-04 .413

    I've noticed a lot of people here doubting our ability to be a championship contender this year. Look at some of those teams; that is good company.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    The Houston thing is throwing me. Who played for them at that time?
    .

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The Houston thing is throwing me. Who played for them at that time?
    Pretty sure that's still Stevey Franchise Era Rockets.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Pretty sure that's still Stevey Franchise Era Rockets.
    + JVG was the coach and he always expected his teams to defend. Not surprisingly, another JVG-coached team is on the list at #2.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The Houston thing is throwing me. Who played for them at that time?
    Jeff Van Gundy

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The Houston thing is throwing me. Who played for them at that time?
    Yao, Stevie franchise, and a certain back-up pg named mark jackson

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    Yao, Stevie franchise, and a certain back-up pg named mark jackson
    Don't forget the then healthy not unlike our Roy 7'5 lumber of a health Yao. I think what you see is that a lot of these teams have big men that can help and defend the paint well. That way, the parameter players could stay up tight on a shooter because he knows he has someone to back him up on a drive. Roy's value as a defender is more than just blocking shot but also a mental boost to our wings.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The Houston thing is throwing me. Who played for them at that time?
    That Houston team was awesome, if a bit dysfunctional and frustrating to watch. They had Yao in his prime, Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley. Jeff Van Gundy was the coach who did a fantastic job, but I think he hated that team! They played amazing defense, but the level of selfish play on offense was hard to watch. At least that's how I remember them through the haze of the years.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    still a lot of basketball left but, good chance we finish in the top ten.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Doesn't matter cause our offense isn't #1 too. No one wins anything with the best defense.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Wasn't 98-99 a lockout season too? It's interesting that everyone on that list is either the 98-99 season or the 03-04 season, with the exception of us and a 97-98 Spurs season. Damn good company. I don't suspect we will hold that number all season, but it shows we really do have an elite defensive team.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Wasn't 98-99 a lockout season too? It's interesting that everyone on that list is either the 98-99 season or the 03-04 season, with the exception of us and a 97-98 Spurs season. Damn good company. I don't suspect we will hold that number all season, but it shows we really do have an elite defensive team.
    The 3 teams from 1998-99 stuck out to me first thing when I looked at this list. While those were solid teams, you can't help but think people just weren't making a lot of shots. I seem to remember Simmons talking extensively about this in his book as well (could've been an article but I think it was the book). Still nice to see Indy on the list.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Wasn't 98-99 a lockout season too? It's interesting that everyone on that list is either the 98-99 season or the 03-04 season, with the exception of us and a 97-98 Spurs season. Damn good company. I don't suspect we will hold that number all season, but it shows we really do have an elite defensive team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadshot View Post
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    The 3 teams from 1998-99 stuck out to me first thing when I looked at this list. While those were solid teams, you can't help but think people just weren't making a lot of shots. I seem to remember Simmons talking extensively about this in his book as well (could've been an article but I think it was the book). Still nice to see Indy on the list.
    Yeah, it was a bad shooting year, league-wide. Hard to say where those teams would fare under more normal circumstances.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Yeah, it was a bad shooting year, league-wide. Hard to say where those teams would fare under more normal circumstances.
    That seems to make what Indy is doing in this season seem a little more impressive then I think.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadshot View Post
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    That seems to make what Indy is doing in this season seem a little more impressive then I think.
    The average team FG% for 03-04 was .439.
    The average for this season? .447.

    In 03-04, eight teams shot under .430, and only four teams shot over .450.
    This season, four teams shoot under .430, and a whopping 11 teams shoot over .450.

    In 03-04, only six teams shot a FG% higher than the current season's average, whereas, 20 of the league's 30 teams are shooting higher than 03-04's FG% average.

    Those Pistons were a great defensive team, sure, but no rational person (that excludes a few of you, sadly...) can deny that their defensive numbers are clearly inflated by the fact that 03-04 was arguably the low-point of modern NBA offense. They were a slow-paced, plodding, ugly team, playing in the era of hideous offense.

    My personal opinion is that those Pistons deserve about 80% of the credit for the defensive numbers they put up, while the other 20% is credited to terrible offense, league-wide. I'd put those numbers at about 90/10 for this current Pacers team.

    One of the best testaments to the Pacers' defensive dominance is to compare their top-ranked oFG% (.413) to the second-ranked oFG% (Warriors; .429), and see how it stacks up to past margins.

    Here are the top-ranked oFG%'s, and their margin over the second-ranked oFG's, since 1990:

    1. 1993 Knicks (3.0)
    2. 1998 Spurs (1.7)
    3T. 2013 Pacers (1.6)
    3T. 1995 Knicks (1.6)
    5. 2008 Celtics (1.4)
    6. 1990: Pistons (0.8)
    7T. 2003 Kings (0.7)
    7T. 1997 Knicks (0.7)
    7T. 1994 Knicks (0.7)
    10T. 2007 Rockets (0.6)
    10T. 2000 Lakers (0.6)
    12T. 2011 Bulls (0.4)
    12T. 1996 Heat (0.4)
    12T. 1991 Spurs (0.4)
    15T. 2006: Bulls (0.3)
    15T. 2004: Spurs (0.3)
    17T. 2012: Celtics (0.2)
    17T. 2001: Knicks (0.2)
    18T. 2010 Magic (0.1)
    18T. 2005 Bulls (0.1)
    18T. 2002 Lakers (0.1)
    18T. 1999 Spurs (0.1)
    18T. 1992 Spurs (0.1)
    23. 2009 Celtics (<0.1)

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Wasn't 98-99 a lockout season too? It's interesting that everyone on that list is either the 98-99 season or the 03-04 season, with the exception of us and a 97-98 Spurs season. Damn good company. I don't suspect we will hold that number all season, but it shows we really do have an elite defensive team.
    Here's the thing about that. The Spurs have 97-98, but in the other cases first place was not only not far ahead of 2nd, but not far ahead of 3rd either. In the case of the Pacers this season they are WAY out in front of everyone else. It's not an "era" thing or rules of the year or whatever where you see many teams bunched together at the top. In the lockout season it was not only still a defensive friendly era, but many people thought that the shooting was rusty when the lockout ended.


    Edit - Thanks CGG, you already addressed it. I had only read page 1 when I posted. The Pacers might be more ahead of the mean than the teams from those other seasons.

    Of course a person could say "well those other teams dropped the mean down", so I looked at the median instead just to accommodate the idea that a few elite teams pulled the league average down.

    97-98: mean .450, median .448 - T'Wolves DEF FG% with 14 teams higher, 14 teams lower
    98-99: mean .437, median .439 - The Raps, 14 teams above them and 14 below.
    03-04: mean .439, median .437 - Cavs, 14 above, 14 below
    12-13: mean .447, median .448 - ORL/DAL, you can group 15 teams above and 15 below this line if you put ORL in one and DAL in the other

    So for the most part the middle of the road defense is about the same as the league average, just a tick up or down. Having several elite teams did help the average in 98-99 but wasn't enough to overcome the impact of having some very bad defenses pulling up the average in 03-04.

    Ratio to the MEDIAN of that season:

    1. San Antonio Spurs 1998-99 .439/.402 = 1.092 (1 point to 2nd, 9 points to 3rd, both on this list)
    2. New York Knicks 1998-99 .439/.403 = 1.089
    3. San Antonio Spurs 2003-04 .437/.409 = 1.068 (3 points to 2nd, 4 points to 3rd, both on this list)
    4. Miami Heat 1998-99 .439/.411 = 1.068
    5. San Antonio Spurs 1997-98 .448/.411 = 1.090 (and 2nd was 17 points behind at 428)
    6. Indiana Pacers 2012-13 .448/.412 = 1.087 (2nd is 17 points behind at 429)
    7. Houston Rockets 2003-04 .437/.412 = 1.061
    7. Detroit Pistons 2003-04 .437/.413 = 1.058

    This puts the 97-98 Spurs in 2nd in terms of comparison to the middle of the road defense that season. Then the Knicks and then the current Pacers. And as I mentioned already, you see a massive gulf between 1st and 2nd with the Pacers and with the 97-98 Spurs.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-13-2013 at 02:26 AM.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Wow! Whats amazing is the fact that these pacers are doing it in an era of basketball where offense is king...im sure david stern lets his referees know that offense gets the ratings

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Smooth View Post
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    Team/year/Opponents FG%

    1. San Antonio Spurs 1998-99 .402
    2. New York Knicks 1998-99 .403
    3. San Antonio Spurs 2003-04 .409
    4. Miami Heat 1998-99 .411
    5. San Antonio Spurs 1997-98 .411
    6. Indiana Pacers 2012-13 .412
    7. Houston Rockets 2003-04 .412
    7. Detroit Pistons 2003-04 .413

    I've noticed a lot of people here doubting our ability to be a championship contender this year. Look at some of those teams; that is good company.
    I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons number needs a giant 48 point font asterisk. When you're talking about ranking the best defensive teams, please remember this:

    The 2003-04 Detroit Pistons, after they acquired Rasheed Wallace, was the best defensive team of ALL TIME.

    The defensive numbers for the Pistons over the full season really do a major disservice to just how good that team was defensively once Sheed came aboard.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons number needs a giant 48 point font asterisk. When you're talking about ranking the best defensive teams, please remember this:

    The 2003-04 Detroit Pistons, after they acquired Rasheed Wallace, was the best defensive team of ALL TIME.

    The defensive numbers for the Pistons over the full season really do a major disservice to just how good that team was defensively once Sheed came aboard.
    Im still pissed about that trade

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons number needs a giant 48 point font asterisk. When you're talking about ranking the best defensive teams, please remember this:

    The 2003-04 Detroit Pistons, after they acquired Rasheed Wallace, was the best defensive team of ALL TIME.

    The defensive numbers for the Pistons over the full season really do a major disservice to just how good that team was defensively once Sheed came aboard.
    It's a bit off to compare a 22-game stretch to rankings of full seasons.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons number needs a giant 48 point font asterisk. When you're talking about ranking the best defensive teams, please remember this:

    The 2003-04 Detroit Pistons, after they acquired Rasheed Wallace, was the best defensive team of ALL TIME.

    The defensive numbers for the Pistons over the full season really do a major disservice to just how good that team was defensively once Sheed came aboard.
    Best of all time? Naaa...very good? yes... Especially the front line.... But that front court forgave quite a few sins of a backcourt that, for me, would prevent that team from ever being regarded as the best of all time...Right of the top of my head I would think of a couple Bulls teams and Knicks teams from the early to mid 90's that I think I would have to take if I was looking for a team to shut down another. And I have a feeling there are a few more. The Pistons were very well coached and played a god awful slow pace. Hence one of the reasons some of the numbers might be considered skewed a bit..Very good defensively and one of the best of all time, undoubtedly. But THE best? Not for me.

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    I'm pretty sure everyone understands that already...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm pretty sure everyone understands that already...
    I didn't.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I didn't.
    Same, that's a special team to me, with the whole beating the Lakers thing, but I didn't realize they were best defense of all time good.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have the 6th best FG% defense in NBA history

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I didn't.
    Me either.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

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