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Thread: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

  1. #1

    Default Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    I wanted to pose this question to the forum. Is it possible when Danny comes back it will actually weaken our current team? This teams bread and butter is an elite defense. True the scoring has lacked at times, however we are third in the East and surging without Granger. Granger's big knock over his career has been his defense, however last year was a step in the right direction. When Granger comes back is the defense still going to be elite, or will he weaken our half court defense that has been so strong?

    Granger for EJ anyone? LOL, couldn't resist!
    "A winner is someone who recognizes their God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Oh man get ready to get pile on, good luck.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    The Gordon comment was a joke more than anything, however Granger is a weak defender... History proves this. Let's be honest, this team is a defensive juggernaut and he drastically reduces their defensive capabilities when he is on the floor. I have been a Granger fan forever, but he is going to hinder the starting d, fact...
    "A winner is someone who recognizes their God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals." - Larry Bird

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    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Since Granger is an obvous upgrade of the bench, the real question you are asking is whether Lance Stephenson or Danny Granger is a better defender with the first unit. I would probably contend they are close to being equal...which I think is a great complement to Lance's progress. Overall, I would say that a healthy Danny is still a little better option overall with the starters.

    But clearly, I disagree that him coming back hurts us as long as he's healthy. If anything he greatly strengthens the bench or he pushes Lance down to strengthen it.

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Oh my, people are always looking for something to complain about!

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    In my opinion, our defense succeeds not as a collection of individual defensive talent, but as a coordinated and focused unit. Sure, we have at least one elite defender in Paul George, and a pretty solid rim protector in Hibbert, but our schemes, communication and movement are what allow us to shut down teams. I disagree with your assessment of Danny as a "weak defender", but for argument's sake I'll grant that he is: Are you saying he's so much worse than Stephenson, West and/or Hill that he'll be exploited by opposing teams and/or weaken the entire unit?

    On an unrelated note, you probably don't want to end your post with "I have been a Granger fan forever, but he is going to hinder the starting d, fact..." if you want to start an honest discussion about the topic. It seems like you've already made up your mind.

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    It's not like DG is a bad defender. He did handle Lebron pretty well in the playoffs last year and, in his first few seasons, I would go so far as to say he was a very good defender.

    Granger is coming back to Paul George's team. Paul George leads our defense. I think Danny will follow suit and improve his defensive effort as a result of being back.
    Last edited by 5_7_Clash; 01-11-2013 at 09:53 PM.

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    I think his size will actually strengthen the defense. His offense will make the starters better and Lance will make the bench better. This team is going to be scary come playoff time!!

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Granger was actually pretty solid as a defender last season when he didn't have to take on as much of a scoring role.

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    No. Danny proved that he can play D last year and that he's a team player.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Granger was actually pretty solid as a defender last season when he didn't have to take on as much of a scoring role.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    No. Danny proved that he can play D last year and that he's a team player.
    Agreed. Lance's defense has really improved, but he's not yet to Granger's level. Unless there's some sort of lingering injury, a DG/PG wing combo will be better on both offense and defense than a PG/Lance one.

    I actually could see the team getting worse when Danny came back, but not because of this. My primary concern would be that the guys start thinking "Hey, Danny's here, we've got this" instead of the current "We have to play perfect or we're going to get killed." Overconfidence is a bad thing.
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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by IU_sears View Post
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    I have been a Granger fan forever, but he is going to hinder the starting d, fact...
    That's not a fact, my friend. That's an opinion
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    I think it's a legitimate point, and we definitely need to prepare ourselves for a rough stretch when Danny comes back. I believe, like the rest of PD, that Danny will be more than happy to fit into a role and and make this team better without breaking the chemistry. But, he's still going to be a big part of this team and it's going to take some adjusting just like the beginning of the season.

    Do I think his return will weaken the team? For a week or two, yes. For the long-term and the playoffs? He's only going to strengthen this unit.
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  25. #14

    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Danny Granger will help our offense and he won't hurt our defense, he is not a bad defender and we could use him in the playoffs

  26. #15

    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    I think a lot of people need to understand it is not like we putting in a completely new piece, about every starter played with Danny for the entire year last year so they have an idea about what to expect, yes it will take time to adjust, but Lance Stephenson's D so much better than Danny's that it will hurt the team, and his offense will surely help. As long as Paul George and Granger work well together our team will

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    Do I think his return will weaken the team? For a week or two, yes. For the long-term and the playoffs? He's only going to strengthen this unit.
    Well, I can see the logic behind this point. I'm not ruling it out.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    It's not like DG is a bad defender. He did handle Lebron pretty well in the playoffs last year and, in his first few seasons, I would go so far as to say he was a very good defender.

    Granger is coming back to Paul George's team. Paul George leads our defense. I think Danny will follow suit and improve his defensive effort as a result of being back.
    I think we need to put Paul on LeBron. Allowing LeBron to operate and get the other players involved is where the Heat really get tough. DWade hurts you, but he's best double teamed as needed with Paul smothering LeBron 100% of the time and keeping him off his game. DWade isn't going to help the other guys beat you.

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I think we need to put Paul on LeBron. Allowing LeBron to operate and get the other players involved is where the Heat really get tough. DWade hurts you, but he's best double teamed as needed with Paul smothering LeBron 100% of the time and keeping him off his game. DWade isn't going to help the other guys beat you.
    I thought Lance actually played Wade well. Wade was uncharacteristically nailing 3s. He's usually 25%

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    It's not like DG is a bad defender. He did handle Lebron pretty well in the playoffs last year and, in his first few seasons, I would go so far as to say he was a very good defender.

    Granger is coming back to Paul George's team. Paul George leads our defense. I think Danny will follow suit and improve his defensive effort as a result of being back.
    I'm not sure about that.

  33. #20

    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    I just don't understand why the return of Granger weakens the team.

    First, we can all agree that Granger is a better defender than Lance. Why would the defense weaken if Granger plays with PG as a solid wing combo? If anything, the great length advantage will improve the defense we have right now.

    Second, why EJ to DG swap? I know EJ plays great defense, but we will lose the size advantage we have. Plus, if many complains about Granger possibly taking away PG's shot attempts, then it will be the same argument with EJ. So why do the trade if it will just be the same?

    Third, as long as DG is not registering a single game right now, it's impossible to net a good trade for him as his value is currently low.

    And lastly, why would a talented player like Granger weakens the team when all others like to play with talented players? If you want to keep your potential star players like PG, surround him with talented guys.

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  35. #21

    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    DG is a better defender and offensive player than Lance. He knows the defensive system. And in terms of fit, he's actually a better fit than Lance with PG, because he's a better shooter (although Lance has shot well, teams will pay more attention to Danny at the three point line) and he prefers to be a spot up shooter rather than a ball handler. Allowing PG to handle the ball more often. Clear upgrade.

    Lance is arguably our best (or second best..maybe Ian is better) player coming off the bench. Once again, giving us a clear upgrade.

    So long as Danny is healthy, this team will clearly be better with Danny.

    How could this possibly

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    In my opinion, our defense succeeds not as a collection of individual defensive talent, but as a coordinated and focused unit. Sure, we have at least one elite defender in Paul George, and a pretty solid rim protector in Hibbert, but our schemes, communication and movement are what allow us to shut down teams. I disagree with your assessment of Danny as a "weak defender", but for argument's sake I'll grant that he is: Are you saying he's so much worse than Stephenson, West and/or Hill that he'll be exploited by opposing teams and/or weaken the entire unit?

    On an unrelated note, you probably don't want to end your post with "I have been a Granger fan forever, but he is going to hinder the starting d, fact..." if you want to start an honest discussion about the topic. It seems like you've already made up your mind.
    Not a collection of individual talent and a coordinated and a focused unit... That is precisely my point. The team has great defensive chemistry right now with the starters. DG has been unable to practice and his individual defense is not elite enough to offset the loss of chemistry initially. A great defense in basketball is mostly about chemistry and anticipation of where your teammates will be at all times on help side and switches.

    This team with Granger is not going to outgun the elite teams, however, they have proven that with this group they can win by playing elite level defense... Granger could potentially mesh into this elite level defense with time, however why mess with a good thing? Chemistry is being undervalued in this discussion in my opinion. FLAME ON!
    "A winner is someone who recognizes their God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by IU_sears View Post
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    Chemistry is being undervalued in this discussion in my opinion. FLAME ON!
    I disagree. Chemistry is not being undervalued in this discussion. Danny had great chemistry with the same unit last year. I don't think that this chemistry is lost due to an injury that caused him to be sidelined for 3-4 months.

    If we slowly work Danny back into the line up (as we should do) then I don't think that our D will worsen at all.

    Also, why would anyone flame you?
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by IU_sears View Post
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    Not a collection of individual talent and a coordinated and a focused unit... That is precisely my point. The team has great defensive chemistry right now with the starters. DG has been unable to practice and his individual defense is not elite enough to offset the loss of chemistry initially. A great defense in basketball is mostly about chemistry and anticipation of where your teammates will be at all times on help side and switches.

    This team with Granger is not going to outgun the elite teams, however, they have proven that with this group they can win by playing elite level defense... Granger could potentially mesh into this elite level defense with time, however why mess with a good thing? Chemistry is being undervalued in this discussion in my opinion. FLAME ON!
    why would the chemistry be so much worse with Danny though? Its not like he is a new player. They played with him last season. They know how to play with him. The initial problems is just going to be Danny finding his way back, getting back in basketball shape, and offensive flow, which right now this team doesn't have much and he will have to defer to PG now. But on defense, Danny knows what needs to be done and they already know how to do it on that end of the court. Plus Danny is one of the more vocal guys out there which is a boost imo.

    and why mess with a good thing? because our offense is terrible. Thats why we need Danny back more than anything. And thats probably why we will give up more points too. The offense will be more efficient and be playing at a faster pace. Doesn't mean the defense is worse, I just don't see us playing at this slow of a pace with Danny in the line up.

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    Default Re: Granger Return to Weaken Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    And thats probably why we will give up more points too. The offense will be more efficient and be playing at a faster pace. Doesn't mean the defense is worse, I just don't see us playing at this slow of a pace with Danny in the line up.
    Giving up more points doesn't mean a thing if we keep the opponent at low FG%
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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