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Thread: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Are you really comparing HOF/Gold Medal winner/All-Star Reggie Miller to Steve Novak?

    Hold on for a min. I know you are just pulling our legs here. That's right you hated Troy Murphy as much as I did, you hated Jim O'Brien as much as I did. You detested the stretch four as much as I did.

    Good one, you had me going there for a min. because I almost forgot you complained about Satan and his court as much if not more than I did.
    Nope I'm not comparing Novak to Reggie, all I'm saying is that I think is hypocrite to critize the guy for been a 3 point specialist when the face of the Pacers franchise for a long time was "a 3 point specialist", I mean "2nd best 3 point shooter all of time" sounds familiar?

    And yes I hated the Clown and his Troy Murphy love because that is the only thing he wanted to do big difference, every team in the NBA needs a guy like Novak, SA always had somebody similar, Miami had two guys like that last year, Dallas had a guy like that, every contender or championship team needs a 3 point specialist, so I'm sorry but I don't get the hate.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I agree that we need a 3pt specialist but let's not start comparing Green with Novak now.

    Novak is a 6'10 guy that averages 1.3 RPG in his career. He is also only averaging 0.3 APG, 0.2 SPG and 0.1 BPG. He literally cannot do anything else than hitting 3s. But he's good at hitting 3s. He has a 43.8 3p% for his career and that's great. But he cannot create his own shot. He needs a good shot creator in order to be able to make his 3s.

    Green is a significantly worse 3pt shooter (35.7% for his career) but he's better at everything else. He is averaging 4.6 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.9 SPG and 0.6 BPG.

    Those numbers also do not tell how bad of a defender Steve Novak is.

    I like Novak as a player and I certainly agree that we need a 3pt shooter but I prefer Gerald Green over him.

    We certainly need a 3pt specialist but he has to be able to do more than hit open 3s.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    West has looked rough late. When do we start worrying about this?
    On the next contract.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    I think the biggest problem with Novak isn't his game, it's the fact that he is playing nearly 25MPG.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Nope I'm not comparing Novak to Reggie, all I'm saying is that I think is hypocrite to critize the guy for been a 3 point specialist when the face of the Pacers franchise for a long time was "a 3 point specialist", I mean "2nd best 3 point shooter all of time" sounds familiar?

    And yes I hated the Clown and his Troy Murphy love because that is the only thing he wanted to do big difference, every team in the NBA needs a guy like Novak, SA always had somebody similar, Miami had two guys like that last year, Dallas had a guy like that, every contender or championship team needs a 3 point specialist, so I'm sorry but I don't get the hate.
    Well first, it's not hypocritical to criticize Novak while appreciating Reggie. To elaborate on what TJ already said, 3 PT line or not, Reggie was going to be a player. But I challenge the idea that every team needs a 3 point specialist, in that this would be the only skill of said player. Wouldn't it be better to have a team with a few shooters that can do more than hit the deep ball? And who are these guys? All I can think of is Korver and Novak. Ray Allen can drive. Bowen could play great D obviously. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would like to see the 3 point specialists on these championship teams you refer to.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    These are the types of games that if you werenít there you canít understand. I donít say that as a snob or trying to make light of those of you that couldnít get to the fieldhouse because of jobs, live elsewhere or any other legit reason. But there was electricity in the air from the moment I walked through the entrance till the time I left out the tunnel.

    Itís almost impossible to put into words how into it this crowd was. Between Reggie being in the house & it being the Knicks the place was ready to erupt all night long.

    Can we all put a wooden stake in the heart of the idea that the people of central Indiana wonít support the Pacers? I donít know where we stand for the season but Iím telling you give the fans good teams to watch with marquee matchups and we can pack the fieldhouse like any arena in the NBA.

    This is like the 3rd or 4th great crowd in a row. Now I donít know how many discount tickets are being given out so I guess I need to hold off on that part but overall I think itís safe to say that the entire ďwe hate the PacersĒ attitude that did legitimately exist for about 3 or 4 seasons is dead and gone.

    There were some Knicks fans in attendance but you know what, for the most part, they never bother me. Unlike scumbag Bulls fans or the jock sniffing front runner fans (you know the ones that show up one week wearing LeBron then next game with Durrant and then Bryant, etc.) Knicks fans are usually both loyal to their club and generally understand the game.

    I can respect Knicks fans; I have no use for front runner fans & pretty much despise Bulls fans.

    But this isnít about them this is about Pacer fans and our love for our heroís of the arena.

    This was a game that probably only Uncle Buck & I would like. This was an old school grind it out war in the paint where offense was hard to come by and the team that fought the hardest was going to win. And fight our Pacers did, they fought on the perimeter and they fought on the interior often times against much larger and certainly more experienced opponents.

    To score on the Indiana Pacers you absolutely have to hit any mid range shot you get that is even close to open, if you donít you then are going to be relegated to shooting three point shots or if you have a creative point guard who can score you might be able to get something going via dribble penetration but it wonít be easy.

    Frank has that system so locked in place and the players know where to be on every single play that we give you about 2 open shots to work with and if you canít hit them you better pray for long rebounds because our guys are going to get them if you donít.

    Yes they were missing Mello, so what. You play who you play and itís not our fault that Anthony couldnít not resist the urge to chase down Garnett after the game. Thatís on him and frankly he hurt his team by not letting that go.

    But do I think he would have made a difference? Sure he would, he is a monster of a scorer. Raymond Felton would have helped them as well and for that matter Iman Shumpart would probably be helpful as well. But then again so would a healthy Danny Granger helped us, a non-sick George Hill (*kudos to him for playing with Bronchitis) and a not back spasm Roy Hibbert.

    Why did the Knicks lose? Yes Paul George, yes great defense. But they lost because our backups stepped up and filled their roles and theirs did not. Ian Mahinmi came in and pretty much decimated the Knicks in the 4th quarter and Jeff Pendegraph hit them like the German blitzkrieg over Poland. In other words they werenít expecting it, werenít ready for it and could do nothing to stop it.

    Sure J.R. Smith had stats but frankly he probably shot them out of the game at the end as well. As soon as the refs. stopped falling for his running into our big men and flopping to the ground to draw a foul he was pretty much screwed and resorted to horrific jump shot after horrific jump shot.

    Also while Iím here let me make this statement. Steve Novak needs to get down every day and thank God that the three point line exists because if it werenít for that he would be doing what he is really qualified to do and that is clean truck stop toilets. Never have I seen 24 more useless min. played in a game.

    Anyway I have this game taped so I will go watch it and listen to what they have to say about our team & Iím sure Paul George. I have a feeling that as a Pacers fan I will be thrilled but as one of the few remaining Danny Granger fans I will probably be sad.

    Letís just do grades again tonight.

    Paul George: A+

    God of the fieldhouse. Two way player the likes of which we havenít seen, probably ever. Iím telling you once he starts getting fouls calls going his way he is going to be breathing some rare air company wise. Iím not going to go over board yet but to say that he wonít be in that top tier level of players would not be accurate. I love Danny Granger & I still absolutely believe they can work together but Iíll just go ahead and say that Paul & more importantly Frank should not change the focus of the offense when Danny comes back. Paul is legit. No his trade value will probably never be any higher not because he wonít improve but because right now I honestly think you could demand Dwight Howard for him. Maybe not straight up but I bet you could make a package deal and the Lakers wouldnít even flinch. Here is the stunner, I would. In other words I donít make that trade now. That is how good I think Paul can ultimately be.

    David West: B

    Old thick power forwards from N.Y. were giving him fits tonight. Couldnít get to the spots on the floor he wanted and once again was struggling from the field. However tonight he stepped it up on the defensive end and was eating lots and lots of space on the floor & had a couple of blocks and at least 2 other deflections. We arenít going to win a lot of games with him not hitting double figures but that just tells you how strong our team is. Heís generally our best scorer and we still won the game with him only getting 6.

    Roy Hibbert: Incomplete

    Iíll give Roy the benefit of the doubt like I did Hill the other night. Dude was legitimately in pain and we could see him trying to loosen up to get on the floor. Still having trouble scoring and his back limited his mobility tonight but if nothing else you have to give him full credit for going out of the game on one hell of a block. In fact that and the previous steal score from Paul George turned this game around and sealed the win for us.

    Lance Stephenson: A-

    People may not realize this but he was our second leading rebounder tonight (Paul being # 1) and several of his rebounds were not of the pick the ball up off the floor variety. He was in there battling with the trees and in one sequence ripped the ball out of Tyson Chandlerís hands. I really love the way that he plays within the confines of the game because that tells me how far he has progressed since he has come into the league. Sure there is still some Rucker Park in there but it only appears after he has done 2 or 3 great things during a game. Also was second on the club in assists (again Paul was # 1) and shot 50% from the field including a 3 pointer. That 2010 draft is really paying dividends to the Pacers franchise.

    George Hill: Incomplete

    Still sick. Getís a very solid A for effort though as not everybody would try and play through that. He did a good job of controlling the ball and still defended at a high level but definitely you could tell his shooting and in particular his penetrating were off.

    Ian Mahinmi: A+

    Somebody kept tweeting me during the game about how good Kurt Thomas was looking & how good Camby was looking (the tweeters name is very similar to a South American country) but amazingly ceased tweeting me by the end of the game. Of course my damned phone didnít work in the fieldhouse (poor reception) so I could never reply. So I will take this time to ask, hey howíd you like Mahinmi now? As I said before I donít really like Green or Augustine but Iíve known since the pre-season that Ian was a great pick up for us and well frankly you have to say that he probably at the very least secured this win for us. His defense of the pick and roll tonight was actually better than Royís because of Royís back. But in general I think he does as well as Roy does on most nights in the P n R anyway.

    Jeff Pendegraph: A+

    Yes Jeff Pendegraph. I know I was as stunned when he came in as you were but he not only didnít hurt the club he actually contributed to the success on the floor. Yes the grade is way too high for what he really did but remember I base my grades also on expectations and Jeff just came in and knocked it out of the park. He didnít grab many boards but Iím telling you he jarred a lot of bodies.

    Tyler Hansbrough: B-

    Tyler set a screen on Steve Novak so hard that it knocked him from white to translucent. Of course this made me smile as I think Novak is the worldís biggest albino turd. Anyway take away another horrific shooting night, good God 1-8, and you will find that he spent his night as an agent of chaos causing the Knicks to scramble, dive and attempt to fight for everything when he was on the floor. He made Stoudemire look like he was 6í4Ē and 130 when they were both going after the ball in the second quarter, in fact I figure he would pull up lame and hobble off to the bench to avoid the embarrassment of being worked over by Tyler. Not great number from him but Iím telling you he certainly had an impact on the game.

    Gerald Green: B-

    My God this guy loves the three point line. Thankfully he did actually hit a very big three off of that Roy block but up until then he had missed them all. He is what he is and Iíve just had to come to grips with it. Some nights heís going to look good other nights not so much. I think getting Danny back will help him some because he can then play with another shooter so he wonít be given the green light to chuck up shots all of the time. Oh well Iím making it sound like he sucked tonight and he didnít. He helped out on the boards and while I donít think he blocked a shot I am pretty sure he altered an attempt by Copeland.

    D.J. Augustine: C

    Didnít help, didnít hurt. In fact it was kind of like he wasnít there. But he didnít hurt so that is a big bonus.

    Frank Vogel: A+

    I normally donít grade Frank but that defense was so tight that I have to give him some love here. The only thing I think he is going to need to think about is dressing McGuire over Plumlee. If Roy is having back spasms I think having Miles available is a good idea.

    I once again canít tell you how great the fieldhouse was tonight. I mean playoff feel and everything. It was great to see Reggie Miller in the house I just wish we could have done something to recognize him for his hall of fame induction. I know they showed the video and all and I also understand he was there as a professional commentator so it would not be appropriate. But maybe he can come home for a game where we can do this properly for him some day.

    Also I will give Knicks fans one small credit. Yea I would probably be pissed off as well if I were them and Haywood Workman was assigned to work a game in which the giant intro screen shot clearly has video of him bowing to Reggie in his Pacers uniform vs. the Knicks. I think its great myself but I could see where that might upset them.

    Ok now enough of this self control, from here below I will be speaking in Pirate hyperbole and Iím not ashamed to do it.

    Dear NBA and NBA bandwagon fans.

    Up yours. We be th' Pacers an' we care nay fer yer pathetic superstars who jump from one team t' another chasin' titles wi' the'r shipmates as tho they be chasin' lasses o' loose morals.

    Our team be built, nay bought.

    Nobody demanded t' come here t' Indiana but once they be here nobody wants t' leave. This be a family an' like any family we be havin' had our struggles, but our time be now. Nay longer will we allow ye t' push us around nay longer will ye come in an intimidate us wi' yer athletic firepower. We be havin' fire power o' our own an' more than enough athletes t' compensate.

    We be havin' th' best young coach in th' entire world (thatís starboard I spake 't) an' we probably be havin' th' best overall staff o' coachís in th' game.

    We fear nobody.
    Ok enough Pirate talk.

    People when you are rolling like this and another team was standing on the tracks there can only be Aerosmith to tell us about it.

    Another great post Peck. Keep em coming. Especially loved the comment on Tyler's screen on Novak. From white to translucent is hysterical.

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  10. #32
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    West has looked rough late. When do we start worrying about this?
    I'll worry about it when we start losing more than a couple games, and/or if this continues to the end of the month.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Well first, it's not hypocritical to criticize Novak while appreciating Reggie. To elaborate on what TJ already said, 3 PT line or not, Reggie was going to be a player. But I challenge the idea that every team needs a 3 point specialist, in that this would be the only skill of said player. Wouldn't it be better to have a team with a few shooters that can do more than hit the deep ball? And who are these guys? All I can think of is Korver and Novak. Ray Allen can drive. Bowen could play great D obviously. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would like to see the 3 point specialists on these championship teams you refer to.
    Robert Horry, Peja, Bowen, Mike Miller, Battie, Terry, Sasha V, Matt Bonner and Ray Allen just to name a few, yes some of those players can do other things but you get my point.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Robert Horry, Peja, Bowen, Mike Miller, Battie, Terry, Sasha V, Matt Bonner and Ray Allen just to name a few, yes some of those players can do other things but you get my point.
    Besides Bonner, all those guys do/did things "Novak can only dream of."

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Comparing shooters is often difficult. You have some guy who can only catch and shoot guys. You have other guys who can do a lot more, like run off screens, shoot of the dribble and shoot when well defended. Reggie is in the second category, which makes him much, much, much more valuable than those who can only catch and shoot.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Besides Bonner, all those guys do/did things "Novak can only dream of."
    Yes but that still doesn't make Novak a worthless player the guy has won games for them with his shooting.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes but that still doesn't make Novak a worthless player the guy has won games for them with his shooting.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Novak is worthless, I would love to have him. But if it weren't for the 3 PT line, I'm not sure he would be in the association.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I did love this game. Felt like a playoff game to me. I thought the Knicks defense was really good too. When they had Camby and Chandler both in there I wondered if the Pacers were ever going to be able to score in the paint. Camby getting hurt really helped. I give Mike Woodson a lot of credit though he has them playing defense. I posted this in the post game thread, but Chandler is perhaps the best defensive player in the NBA - he does it all and is a huge factor defensively. He is the rare big guy who is great one-on-one and in help defense.

    I was so happy that the TNT guys at halftime didn't suggest that it was horrible offense. In fact Kenny did his big screen analysis on the Pacers great defense. Rightly so they raved about the defense.

    I'm really excited about this Pacers team.
    I truly loved this game! Both teams missing offensive players and still competing. Kudos to the Knicks for some GOOD defense. Kenny Smith said it best, I think "The Pacers are like, we can only score 15 points a quarter, so we'll only let you score 8." I feel that sums up Vogel idea of defense pretty well.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Novak is worthless, I would love to have him. But if it weren't for the 3 PT line, I'm not sure he would be in the association.
    A lot of people wouldn't be in the association, Reggie wouldn't be a hall of famer but guess what? the 3 point line exist and is not going anywhere.

    I guess I'm going to start the argument that if dunking was not allowed in the NBA Tyson Chandler, Blake Griffin and others would be out of work also.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A lot of people wouldn't be in the association, Reggie wouldn't be a hall of famer but guess what? the 3 point line exist and is not going anywhere.

    I guess I'm going to start the argument that if dunking was not allowed in the NBA Tyson Chandler, Blake Griffin and others would be out of work also.
    All of that is wrong. Reggie would have slashed under the arc. Bigs can still lay it in for 2. What are you talking about?

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A lot of people wouldn't be in the association, Reggie wouldn't be a hall of famer but guess what? the 3 point line exist and is not going anywhere.

    I guess I'm going to start the argument that if dunking was not allowed in the NBA Tyson Chandler, Blake Griffin and others would be out of work also.
    If there was a picture for grasping at straws, this would be the place for it. Because yeah, Tyson Chandler and Blake Griffin only dunk, nothing else. Everyone know the DPOY goes to whoever dunks the most...yeesh

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    I want to know why the refs were letting the Knicks get by with mugging our players on some plays. Even Reggie said something at one point when Marv Albert mentioned that Paul George had been fouled on that fast break lay-up by JR Smith, Reggie retorted by saying "I think you mean he got mugged"
    Thanks for repeating that comment. To make it completely accurate, my memory is that it was the mugging of West that brought the comment.
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    ďPeople talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but heís really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.Ē óLarry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    This was a game that probably only Uncle Buck & I would like. This was an old school grind it out war in the paint where offense was hard to come by and the team that fought the hardest was going to win. And fight our Pacers did, they fought on the perimeter and they fought on the interior often times against much larger and certainly more experienced opponents.

    Please add me to this list, one of the great innovations brought to big time basketball by Bob Knight was "in your face defense".

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Robert Horry, Peja, Bowen, Mike Miller, Battie, Terry, Sasha V, Matt Bonner and Ray Allen just to name a few, yes some of those players can do other things but you get my point.
    Tony Battie was never on a championship team, nor was he a 3pt specialist.

    Shane Battier, he's a defensive specialist who could hit the three. Novak doesn't play defense at near the same clip as Shane.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Comparing shooters is often difficult. You have some guy who can only catch and shoot guys. You have other guys who can do a lot more, like run off screens, shoot of the dribble and shoot when well defended. Reggie is in the second category, which makes him much, much, much more valuable than those who can only catch and shoot.
    Yeah. That's one of those advance statistics I keep waiting for: Categorizing shots into those four categories: C&S, Off Screen, Off Dribble, Contested. I'd love to know the number of attempts and makes (and of course the FG%) for each of those four kinds of shots, per game and of course per season. That would be great.

  32. #46

    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Gerald Green: B-

    My God this guy loves the three point line. Thankfully he did actually hit a very big three off of that Roy block but up until then he had missed them all. He is what he is and I’ve just had to come to grips with it. Some nights he’s going to look good other nights not so much. I think getting Danny back will help him some because he can then play with another shooter so he won’t be given the green light to chuck up shots all of the time. Oh well I’m making it sound like he sucked tonight and he didn’t. He helped out on the boards and while I don’t think he blocked a shot I am pretty sure he altered an attempt by Copeland.
    I really don't like watching Gerald Green play, but I'll say something bold: he'll help us win at least one game in the playoffs.

    Every season there is one player who, like Green, gets red hot when buckets are tough to come by. Two seasons ago it was Jamal Crawford for Atlanta vs. Orlando and last season it was Nick Young for the Clippers vs. Memphis. Young got red hot and led the Clippers back from a huge deficit to win.

    I want nothing to do with either player, but their style of play goes out the window in the playoffs.

    Speaking of playoffs, we could go .500 the rest of the way and still finish 45-37. That's not bad after the start we had.
    Last edited by imawhat; 01-11-2013 at 11:13 AM.

  33. #47

    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    And since the Pacers are winning and playing well, of course the thread has to turn into Steve Novak of all people. He's in the NBA for a reason and that reason is his shooting. He's very good at it but that's all he does. Every team needs shooting, that's the nature of basketball, but Novak isn't dangerous if you keep a body on him. But he does have a place in the league obviously, just like a Korver, a Kerr, etc, but it's completely foolish to compare these guys to Reggie or Ray Allen, and it's beyond foolish to try to compare his one skill to to that of a Chandler or Griffin.

  34. #48
    The Mole ColeTheMole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    The problem with novak is its his only aspect. With reg, his ability to do other things made his 3 point shooting deadly.
    DG for 3

  35. #49
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I really don't like watching Gerald Green play, but I'll say something bold: he'll help us win at least one game in the playoffs.

    Every season there is one player who, like Green, gets red hot when buckets are tough to come by. Two seasons ago it was Jamal Crawford for Atlanta vs. Orlando and last season it was Nick Young for the Clippers vs. Memphis. Young got red hot and led the Clippers back from a huge deficit to win.

    I want nothing to do with either player, but their style of play goes out the window in the playoffs.

    Speaking of playoffs, we could go .500 the rest of the way and still finish 45-37. That's not bad after the start we had.
    He has done that a few times this season already. Not necessarily for big point, just points when we needed them. That was what Barbosa was supposed to bring but never did in the playoffs. My hope in Green becoming consistent is falling by the way side, and if that is all he ever is I hope we find a way to trade him to another team next year shortly after he goes off for 30 points against Miami.

  36. #50
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Slaying the Knicks in honor of Reggie Miller

    Advanced stats also really hate Novak. Like I said it's not so much what he does. It's how much time he takes to do it. 25 MPG to score 7PPG? What else is Novak doing to warrant that much PT? Hopefully his minutes go down when Shumpert gets back because I will like him more, otherwise, he's a big fat defensive liability at the small forward or shooting guard, he doesn't rebound all that well and he has a tendency to disappear.

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