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Thread: Chad Ford Chat

  1. #101

    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    JMHO, but I think Peck is spot-on with the Plan B deal. I don't think there is any chance we move DG this season unless it's a EJ type demands to come home! If I was in the FO, I'd be looking at the off-season and DWest's contract first. If we can't afford to keep West, Danny would be my backup plan. If we resign David, then you decide whether you want to make the best deal possible for Dannky. My worst fear is PG leaving for the Lakers in 2 years. If Kobe leaves, we are going to be in a bind.

  2. #102
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Augustine & Green yes. Mahinmi, no.
    And it's starting to look like you push Augustine toward the 'no' side. Wouldn't you agree Peck?

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Warriors play Lee at center a lot no way Ian plays over him.

    Magic? Big Baby and Vucevic?

    Hornets? they only have Davis, Lopez and Jason Smith.

    I am sorry but you guys are killing me.
    They play PF at the center position not because they are good at it, but because they have no choice do to lack of true centers not only on their team but in the league. If Ian was on any of those 3 teams he would have heavy minutes at center while Davis, Lee and big baby would be at the 4.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 01-09-2013 at 07:51 PM.
    .

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  4. #104
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Granger for Barnes, Jefferson and a 1st maybe 2 would be something I can get on board with. Makes sense for both teams would suck to take on Jefferson but gotta do it to make money work.

    EDIT: Although if I am GS not sure I do it Harrison is well on his way to being a Danny Granger level player or better. I would likely just keep Barnes myself.
    If we could get this I would consider us lucky, I would take it without asking any questions
    Why so SERIOUS

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Why Chandler Parsons? Wouldn't the whole point in moving Granger be to open the SF position exclusively for PG?
    Which should make one wonder if the Granger trade is just for the sake of trading Granger.
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  7. #106
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR-LANCE-ALOT View Post
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    No way we will get any value in return for Granger, he is damaged goods, no team will take a chance on him with that type of injury, if we get oj mayo for granger, that would be a steal if we could fleece the mavs for granger
    A Danny Granger trade doesn't make sense under any circumstances, really.

    Maybe his knee is shot, and so he can't play as anything except a jumpshooter. If that's the case, then nobody would want him.

    Maybe he comes back good as new, and he's the Granger from 2009 again. If that's the case, we'd be insane to trade him.

    It's time to move on and discuss some other ridiculously unlikely thing.
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  9. #107
    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Here is why Granger is gone this summer

    A look at the future of our cap

    Salary 3.png

    The salaries in pink are projected

    Whether we resign DJ or Hans we still need to sign backups and will have other rookie contracts

    If we are keeping West Granger is gone!

  10. #108
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    Here is why Granger is gone this summer

    A look at the future of our cap

    Salary 3.png


    The salaries in pink are projected

    Whether we resign DJ or Hans we still need to sign backups and will have other rookie contracts

    If we are keeping West Granger is gone!
    I doubt David gets $11M/year over a three year deal, likely closer to $9M. PG's starting salary on a max deal is $13.7M, not $14.7M. Tyler and Lance's deals are a bit high and will also be escalating, so you can knock $1-2M off your estimates for the early years. That alone is about $5M in savings. If we can also find a way to dump Gerald Green prior to next summer, you likely have a enough to keep Danny at $8-9M. Green serves no purpose once Danny returns and we run a wing trio of DG, PG, Lance. $3.5M for a 4th wing is too much - some team can use Green as a rotational wing where he can earn his pay and we can grab a guy like Sam Young for cheap. Also keep in mind, that we have two first rounders prior to PG & Lance getting deals, so if one of them can take the backup PF or PG spot at a $1M/year rookie deal, then that will save some money too. It will be tough, but it's possible. West and Danny are going to have to accept $8-9M/year though.

  11. #109
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    Here is why Granger is gone this summer

    A look at the future of our cap

    Salary 3.png

    The salaries in pink are projected

    Whether we resign DJ or Hans we still need to sign backups and will have other rookie contracts

    If we are keeping West Granger is gone!
    DJ won't want only 3.5M and 5 years IMO...

    Tyler and Lance is overpaid...

  12. #110
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by pezhan View Post
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    DJ won't want only 3.5M and 5 years IMO...

    Tyler and Lance is overpaid...
    If we pay D.J. 3.5 or more with a 5 year deal I will


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    I don't think DJ will be back....Also, if Plumlee is as athletic as they claim, he could very possibly replace Ian at the backup 5, which would save us an additional 4M a year...Dropping both Green and Ian would net us 7.5M a year....Once Danny is back we have no need for Green, Ian would be a bit harder to replace, but I can only assume that is why Plumlee was drafted ahead of his stock....From what I hear, he is putting up decent numbers for the MadAnts, so that could be a real possibility....So without DJ, Green, and Ian, you are looking at 10.5M spending cash....

    Looking at your projections, I would say that West is a bit high...I say he gets 4/36M. Lance is on a tear right now, but how long will it hold up....There is no way in hell that he is worth 6M/yr right now....So far he has 1/2 a season that looks promising, and 2 years of bench fodder....He has more to prove, but I see him at 5/20M max....Just those two adjustments nets another 4M/yr

    Just those adjustments alone allow for 14.5M more to spend....
    Last edited by ejwallace; 01-09-2013 at 10:41 PM.

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  16. #112
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Ian has put up a few good games lately, 75% of his games as a Pacer have still been terrible and he's not worth a 4 yr. 16 mil contract. How some of you guys can be in love with his 5 points, 3.9 boards and .89 blocks is beyond me. Tyler is putting up better overall numbers in the same amount of time and everyone hates him. I don't hate Ian, I just think he's overpaid and we should have done better with all our cap space. If Plumlee would end up as a serviceable center and could move Ian and Green together, thus cleaning the slate from the summer of 2012, I'd be happy. In all likelihood we'll be keeping Ian and with the opportunities he's had to develop, he'll be putting up the same numbers in 4 years. I can live with it but don't tell me he's starting center material.

  17. #113
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    This was only meant to be an estimate as there are a lot of moving parts

    West is having a borderline all star year...not taking a pay cut since this is his last
    deal and he took less this time because of his knee injury

    Granger is not going to take a 40% pay cut

    George's contract will begin in 2014...if you bump the $13.7 million (2012 max) by 4% per year it is $14.7 million

    2014 Starters

    Roy $15m

    West $11m

    Granger $11m

    George $15m

    Hill $8m

    =$60m

    + 10 minimum salary players = $70m

    no Lance, Green, Hans, Ian, DJ

    ain't going to happen

    Like I said if West stays Granger is gone!!!

  18. #114
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    You guys are way over-forecasting for bench players. We never needed Dhantay Jones for the money we wasted on him. We don't need Gerald Greene for the money we're wasting on him.

    If somebody wants to pay Lance a five-year contract at $20 million, they can have him. All of the money we want to spend at the wings should be tied up primarily in Danny and Paul, with the third and fourth wings on a rookie contract scale.

    You'd think Donnie Walsh, and his love of overpaying for bench depth but not paying enough for starter quality, was writing the posts above.

    We need to invest heavily in our starters, and if that means that we sacrifice depth to keep George-Paul-Danny-David-Roy together with a few competent backups that play a limited role (PGTBD, Lance if reasonable, in the 2-3 year, $5-8M range, Tyler for the same, and Plumlee/Ian) then so be it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  20. #115
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    No matter how good he's been lately, Paul George won't be getting a max contract until he shows he's better than a healthy Danny Granger when both are healthy. He'll get a nice salary bump, up to something between what Hill and West are making.

    Until he takes over their roles in the 4Q, there's no way he's getting close to a max deal.

    He's playing well, I'm not complaining. And mostly, he's keeping things interesting until David and George need to make clutch plays.

    If that gets him a max, then our salary situation is #$%^ed for a decade.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  22. #116

    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Wow Peck you are killing me, here is a break down of the teams you are mentioning(note that I expect Ian fans to break down every single stat to make him look like Hakeem)
    I just love how you shift your 'arguments'. Before, you go on and on about how badly the Pacers overpaid Mahinmi, even though his contract takes up 5% of the Pacers cap. 5%, for a legit backup 5, who could start for a few teams and certainly play meaningful minutes for most.

    Now that he's playing well, you feel the need to throw a connection to Hakeem out there. You won't credit him for his good play, only remind us all that's he's no Hakeem.

    Lol, it must be tough for you to watch this Pacers team play so well, 3rd in the east, 8th overall, all while their leading scorer is out and their 'scrub' bench players are starting to round into form.

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  24. #117

    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Barnes, Jefferson and Ezeli for Granger and Plumlee works. Ezeli is who we should've drafted. I'm doing this trade is possible.
    Here we come lottery?

  25. #118
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Wow Peck you are killing me, here is a break down of the teams you are mentioning(note that I expect Ian fans to break down every single stat to make him look like Hakeem):

    So you have Miami, Miami plays Bosh at center, Bosh is way better than Ian and Haslem even at this point is still better than Ian and yes I know the Pacers won yesterday.

    There is no possible way on earth you can say with a straight face that the 6'8" (at best) Haslem is better than the 6'11" Mahinmi. Now if Ian were an immobile stiff like say Stuart Granger then yes, but that is the whole point he is very athletic for his size. No he's not better than Bosh, they would move Bosh back to his natural 4 spot. That is unless you don't think LeBron can play the 3, which I'm sorry but he can.

    Philly? Hawes is better than Ian.

    Debatable but Hawes hasn't been starting anyway. They are bringing him off of the bench and have been starting Lavoy Allen at Center. Sorry but Ian is better than Allen for sure & IMO he's better than Hawes as well.
    Cleveland? are you forgetting about Varejao? Zeller?

    Nope I'm not forgetting about sideshow Bob. He is better, I won't argue. When he is healthy that is, so far this season he hasn't been. But even then he really would be a more natural 4 which is what he played for years & as far as Zeller goes

    Washington? how about Nene, Okafor or Seraphin? not sure if you are serious here.

    Dead serious. Okafor evertime I have seen him looks like the ghost of Okafor to me however even if healthy both he and Nene are really just 4's playing out of position. Nene on the other hand I just can't take serious because he is always hurt. Seraphin on the other hand is a legit option. Ok, I'll say that Ian probably would start due to experiance but I bet would eventually lose the job to Seraphin who ultimately will be the better player.
    Boston? maybe if they move KG to power forward but why would they do that?

    Charlotte? Bismack Biyombo, Mullens or Haywood?

    Biyombo is a little raw and like some from above is really a little undersized to be a starting caliber center. Perfect power forward mind you but I'd take Ian for now, couple of years I don't know we'll see how he develops. Haywood will qualify for Medicare next season and as for Mullens

    Portland? Hickson or Meyers Leonard?

    I like Hickson but on defense he is pretty brutal to watch at times. Not 100% sure on that one, I'll go ahead and say you are probably right there. As to Meyers Leonard?

    Dallas? Kaman is still way better.

    Meh, not sure I agree with that anymore but for agurments sake I'll say knowing Carlisle you are probably right.
    San Antonio? Tiago Spliter is way better than Ian.

    Phoenix? more minutes than a healthy JO? maybe.

    Agree

    Memphis? playing time over Darrell Arthur and Speights? maybe.

    I'll bump that up to a probably because I think Arthur in particular is a 4 & well Speights has games where he looks good and then he has every other game.

    Chicago? sure if they don't play Gibson at center.

    Which is what they did prior to Asik leaving so IMO Ian would just take his spot & Gibson goes back to being the best backup 4 in the NBA.

    New York? is he going to get playing time over Camby, Rasheed, Kurt Thomas and Amare at center? I don't think so.

    Well Sheed is now out with injury, Kurt Thomas is my age and Camby isn't what he used to be. Are the plans to use Amare at the 5? I'll agree with you here that he would not get the min. I originally thought he would.

    Milwaukee? over Dalembert and Joel Przybilla? I don't think so but you never know with Milwaukee.
    Yea I think Ian is better than both of them myself but it's not like he is consistant every game either so who knows.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  27. #119
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Yea I think Ian is better than both of them myself but it's not like he is consistant every game either so who knows.
    I guess we are going to agree to disagree, thanks for taking the time to explain your point though

  28. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I guess we are going to agree to disagree, thanks for taking the time to explain your point though
    Hey I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong. When we made the trade I didn't like it (still don't for other reasons but that has a lot more to do with how the front office handled it and nothing to do with Ian) but in the first pre-season game I could see he was much larger than I thought. I think he is a good backup 5. Not good enough to replace Roy but certainly good enough to replace Roy when he goes to the bench.

    Now on the other hand we are still in the same thoughts when it comes to Augustine & Green. I'm not fooled by D.J. haveing 3 decent games. If he plays this level the rest of the way maybe but my gut feeling is he won't be able to do it.

    As to Green I've been trying to figure out a way out of that contract since about pre-season game 3.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Hey I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong. When we made the trade I didn't like it (still don't for other reasons but that has a lot more to do with how the front office handled it and nothing to do with Ian) but in the first pre-season game I could see he was much larger than I thought. I think he is a good backup 5. Not good enough to replace Roy but certainly good enough to replace Roy when he goes to the bench.

    Now on the other hand we are still in the same thoughts when it comes to Augustine & Green. I'm not fooled by D.J. haveing 3 decent games. If he plays this level the rest of the way maybe but my gut feeling is he won't be able to do it.

    As to Green I've been trying to figure out a way out of that contract since about pre-season game 3.
    I agree with you about Augustin and Green, the part that I disagree with you about Ian is that I don't think he is as good as you think he is, a decent backup? sure, an starting caliber center even in a crappy team? I don't think so, the guy would get in foul trouble on the first quarter of every game, his hands are also too bad for him to even be consider to be an starter anywhere.

    Trust me I like Ian I just don't like the contract, like I said before giving somebody that doesn't bring an speciality that kind of money is not good business to me, the 4mil a year is not the big deal to me, the long term deal to him and Green is the part that makes my stomach hurt and I believe that next year those two contracts are going to hurt the Pacers when they have to decide if they want to keep Danny or West, it's a similar situation to the one the Pacers had when they had to let Jarret Jack go because they had a bunch of scrubs under contract.

  30. #122
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    stupid all-star comin back and ruining everything

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  32. #123
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Curry would be amazing on this team BUT there's no way in hell they're trading him.
    Never half-a** two things. Whole-a** one thing.

  33. #124

    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    No matter how good he's been lately, Paul George won't be getting a max contract until he shows he's better than a healthy Danny Granger when both are healthy. He'll get a nice salary bump, up to something between what Hill and West are making.

    Until he takes over their roles in the 4Q, there's no way he's getting close to a max deal.

    He's playing well, I'm not complaining. And mostly, he's keeping things interesting until David and George need to make clutch plays.

    If that gets him a max, then our salary situation is #$%^ed for a decade.
    I'd be very surprised if Paul George doesn't get max. Look for example the Eric Gordon comparison:

    Gordon's best year was 22.3 points, 4.4 assists, 2.9 rebounds with a TS percentage of .566.
    Paul's best year so far is 16.5 points, 3.6 assists, 7.3 rebounds with a TS percentage of .525.

    George is considered the superior defensive player. Also, Gordon had only played 9 games the year before his restricted free agency and had missed significant time the year before. George has played every single game the last year and a half. And while Gordon always had the same label Granger did whether it was deserved or not (put up numbers on a bad team), George doesn't have that. Gordon was always expected to get a max offer, and as expected he quickly got one.

    I don't think George has to prove he's a number 1 option to get a max. He'll still have just turned 24 when he hits restricted free agency. Even if he stays exactly where he has been this season, some team desperate for a star will see that potential and those flashes and willingly pay up. At worst they'd be getting a very good player on both sides of the floor that can guard multiple positions.

    Basically, unless he has an injury or regresses badly, I think we have to prepare for George getting a max offer.

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  35. #125
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    Default Re: Chad Ford Chat

    I would rather keep DG but from a numbers stand point I also don't think it will be possible if we want to keep West.

    How about DG + Hans for Mayo + Brand + 1st
    Murph

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