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Thread: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    We are like a giant Mr. Potato Head. One part gets broke or is missing you just plug in another piece and keep on moving. It may not be pretty and it may not even look like what you want it to look like but it still functions.

    Danny Granger missing? Move Paul George to the 3 spot and watch the team not only survive but thrive (after a period of adjustment). Paul George out with the flu? Play Lance Stephenson a lot at the 3 spot and watch the team continue to click right along.

    All Hail Frank Vogel!

    I try not to bring up Satan anymore because we are way past him & this is a totally different team than what he had but I use him tonight and for that matter I will throw in Mike “Mr. Pringle” D’Antoni as examples of coach’s who refuse to adjust and ask you to compare and contrast what Frank Vogel has done with our team.

    Go back to his initial press conference and even go into the beginning of this season, what did he talk about? He talked about how we are a smash mouth power post offensive unit. You know we were going to post up Roy first David second and whoever else third.

    At the beginning of this season we tried that, it worked on occasion but more often than not it didn’t.

    So what did Frank do? Did he tell the players to believe harder in his system and still force the offense to go that way? No.

    He saw the players he had and their capabilities and he adjusted and created a new offense to fit their skill set. We still run post ups, we always will. But the fact that he saw what wasn’t working and changed it up is just so damned refreshing after years of rigid one way offense. Also I’m not just talking about Satan there either; frankly Rick did a lot of that as well. Now not nearly to the insane level that Satan did but he would also be pretty rigid whenever O’Neal was on the floor (totally different when he wasn’t btw).

    I say all of that to point this out. While David West was one of our leading scorers & overall bad *** did you notice that our offense was focused on our wings & p.g. scoring? West ran a high post offensive clinic and our three guards benefited.

    I guess I’m just trying to point out that I believe we are truly a dangerous team and we are only going to be more so when Danny get’s back because Frank takes the motto of “Improvise, Adapt & Overcome” to heart and our team has taken on the image that Frank is presenting.

    Was this an ugly game? You bet.

    Would I prefer to not play like this? Well other than win, no really this isn’t my cup of tea.

    Do I think we would have beaten a better team on a night like tonight? Yes, honestly I do.

    We are so far removed from the beginning of this season that it is really hard to stay grounded and objective. I mean part of me is already trying to figure out a way to stay in the top 3 of the East the rest of the season and maybe even climb higher. I’ve not started sizing up my championship plaque that I want or anything yet but sadly I’ll admit that a deep playoff run right now really seems possible.

    In fact anything less than at least a very hard fought 7 game series losing to the eventual title winner in the second round right now would seem to be a devastating blow. But I understand the euphoria of the moment is overtaking me, or is it my flu? I don’t know but either way my head is spinning right now.

    This was a trap game, a game that many teams would lose and honestly almost everybody on this board would have been willing to come on here and say “hey they’re all sick and very tired so we can accept this loss”. But guess what the players weren’t willing to accept that and to me that shows a depth of character that will take us far.

    Ok, I’ve blathered on enough. There is not a whole lot to really talk about that hasn’t already been said so I’ll just throw out a few bullet points for tonight’s Odd Thoughts.

    • David West is a B.A.M.F. (full credit to Naptown Seth for the name)
    • Why we are not talking more about Tyler Hansbrough blocked shot is beyond me. It was really a good blocked shot.
    • Going to start wondering out loud if Mahinmi is now taking some of Roy’s min. because of Roy’s slump and Ian’s improved play.
    • Lance Stephenson can ball. 17 points on above 50% shooting with 7 boards and 4 steals.
    • Gerald Green, yea…. Um…..
    • Ian Mahinmi is the best back up center in the NBA; let’s see reasons as to why not.
    • George Hill still looks a little under the weather to me but again full credit for going with all of this. Hopefully we can get him some rest after tomorrow.

    Ok there really wasn’t that much to say but man is this team playing at a very high level right now.

    I normally like to change it up but until it no longer is the case I’m rolling with it, the Bobcats were on the tracks and the train rolled right over them.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Lance's efficiency is really impressive from where he once was. He has adjusted his game from focusing so much on his mid ranger jumper and he is instead moving without the ball as well as anyone on the team. Very impressed with him, more impressed that he's continued to keep his head on straight. It doesn't even seem a big deal that he is playing like this.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    I can now go to sleep....tx.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Going to start wondering out loud if Mahinmi is now taking some of Roy’s min. because of Roy’s slump and Ian’s improved play.
    If it helps Roy rest that back (that he aggravated tonight) and wrist, Im all for it.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • George Hill still looks a little under the weather to me but again full credit for going with all of this. Hopefully we can get him some rest after tomorrow.
    I'm pretty sure he said he was 80% in the postgame, so he's not fully back.

    Also, Mark Boyle mentioned on Twitter that the sick players were relegated to the back of the plane to Brooklyn, and during the game it was said that Paul George wouldn't take the overnight flight. Does anyone know which players are sick?

    Btw, that's why you don't play when you're sick. As the point guard, you're passing your germs around with the ball.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    a) Don't let a little Paul George magic confuse you. David West is THE man on this team. BAMF.

    2) Weaker-minded Pacers teams would have lost this game. David West, George Hill and Lance willed this team to an ugly win. And with this team, at this time, ugly wins are more fun/ meaningful than pretty wins.

    This team continues to have guts.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I'm pretty sure he said he was 80% in the postgame, so he's not fully back.

    Also, Mark Boyle mentioned on Twitter that the sick players were relegated to the back of the plane to Brooklyn, and during the game it was said that Paul George wouldn't take the overnight flight. Does anyone know which players are sick?

    Btw, that's why you don't play when you're sick. As the point guard, you're passing your germs around with the ball.
    David West certainly didn't seem 100% in his post-game interview, but he insisted to Kevin Lee that he was 100%. Not sure you should believe it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    2) Weaker-minded Pacers teams would have lost this game. David West, George Hill and Lance willed this team to an ugly win. And with this team, at this time, ugly wins are more fun/ meaningful than pretty wins.

    This team continues to have guts.
    This part can't be understated.....mental toughness will get Teams through adversity....oh, that and elite level defense, rebounding and having a resident BAMF and a PG that has ice in his veins on the roster.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    David West certainly didn't seem 100% in his post-game interview, but he insisted to Kevin Lee that he was 100%. Not sure you should believe it.
    If I were a betting man, I'd think that West is probably suffering from some flu-like symptoms as well.....but let's be real.....the flu-bug doesn't even want to mess with a BAMF like West.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Lance's efficiency is really impressive from where he once was. He has adjusted his game from focusing so much on his mid ranger jumper and he is instead moving without the ball as well as anyone on the team. Very impressed with him, more impressed that he's continued to keep his head on straight. It doesn't even seem a big deal that he is playing like this.
    Tonight Lance really impressed me too. Not the flash that people used to (still do) cling to as some "sign" (it's not), but watching him become a SMARTER player.

    Specific example - 4th he comes down and gets a big switched onto him in the transition and he has the ball on the wing. He gets a mild clear out though it's not drawn out or obvious, but clearly he's going to take his man. However his brains kick in when he sizes up his position on the floor and how much driving room he'll have on the baseline if he goes by. He takes a dribble at it, doesn't like the spacing and does a back out move to draw his man farther off the baseline. He takes a jab again, still doesn't like it and patiently brings his man even farther out. Only then, after he's let the spacing become really favorable, does he drive to the rim.

    The key was seeing him think it out and see where things would go if he went for it sooner and then making the decision to "fix the court" using his dribble and letting his teammates get guys into weaker help rotation angles. Raw, young Lance would have just gone balls out to the rim the second he tasted blood in the water with a slower man switched onto him. Smarter Lance knew what he had and then worked to improve the situation in order to take full advantage of it.

    It's small thing in the flow of the game, something easily missed, but its the type of stuff he's been doing more of. I notice him hold up on plays or even adjust without the ball to improve the angles for people trying to get the ball to him. He'll even adjust the placement of the high PnR or work to clear the return passing lane out of that PnR.



    I agree with Peck, BAMF put on a high post clinic. He works for the pass and if you cheat off him (ie, don't come help) too hard then he faces up or spins into a drive. He doesn't attack right away, he let's you choose your poison and then gives you what you asked for. Plus his execution is at a really high rate right now (in terms of passing, dribble moves). Really the only thing wrong with his game has been completing his near rim shots and sometimes the fade. There's been a few dud outings but for the most part it's just been a minor shooting slump. Other than that his game has been pretty top notch.


    Other than Roy finding his shot, it's starting to look like every other player is really getting comfortable with their role on the team as well as developing an anticipation of what their teammates are going to do.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    We are like a giant Mr. Potato Head. One part gets broke or is missing you just plug in another piece and keep on moving. It may not be pretty and it may not even look like what you want it to look like but it still functions.

    Danny Granger missing? Move Paul George to the 3 spot and watch the team not only survive but thrive (after a period of adjustment). Paul George out with the flu? Play Lance Stephenson a lot at the 3 spot and watch the team continue to click right along.

    All Hail Frank Vogel!

    I try not to bring up Satan anymore because we are way past him & this is a totally different team than what he had but I use him tonight and for that matter I will throw in Mike “Mr. Pringle” D’Antoni as examples of coach’s who refuse to adjust and ask you to compare and contrast what Frank Vogel has done with our team.
    Great post as always, Peck.

    Are you saying D'Antoni's teams are the false, processed version of an authentic Mr. Potato head?




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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    What you have with Lance, Hill and BAMF are 3 guys who are both smart and instinctive basketball players. There are a lot of athletes in the league these days but not as many real basketball players. It's a beautiful thing to watch them operate.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    I don't know about you guys but I love watching guys like Hill, George, and Lance communicate before and after timeouts about what they can do better, and sometimes Paul and Hill will act out scenarios while the other team watches them like they are crazy. Communication and strong chemistry make this train keep running.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    No dj love? Looks to me like we might have our backup pg finally.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    I don't know about you guys but I love watching guys like Hill, George, and Lance communicate before and after timeouts about what they can do better, and sometimes Paul and Hill will act out scenarios while the other team watches them like they are crazy. Communication and strong chemistry make this train keep running.
    Talking about chemistry, even off the court, let's talk about New Year's Eve. My wife and I are having a nice dinner at Ruth's Chris downtown with the daughter, son-in-law and another couple, and in strolls Granger, George and Hibbert with ladies in tow. They were seated at the table next to ours. They were having a great time with a lot of laughter amongst all six. It seemed that there was also a lot of good-natured ribbing going on.

    The really nice thing was that everyone noticed, but kept to themselves. No one bothered them, at least while we were still there. The only bad thing is that Danny could use a few table manners... Food is meant to be seen on the plate, not fully exposed in the mouth. When we left, I nodded and signalled two thumbs up. They all smiled and nodded in return.

    We are not just reading lip service. Our players are in it together. On and off the floor.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    but let's be real.....the flu-bug doesn't even want to mess with a BAMF like West.
    Can you blame the flu-bug? We can't find a virus antibiotic but when the virus realizes its about to go up against David West it just cowers away.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Not just Peck's post, but the entirety of the replies is the reason why I think this team is different than last year. And can make a difference in the playoffs. To what extent I don't know. But I do love this team.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Talking about chemistry, even off the court, let's talk about New Year's Eve. My wife and I are having a nice dinner at Ruth's Chris downtown with the daughter, son-in-law and another couple, and in strolls Granger, George and Hibbert with ladies in tow. They were seated at the table next to ours. They were having a great time with a lot of laughter amongst all six. It seemed that there was also a lot of good-natured ribbing going on.

    The really nice thing was that everyone noticed, but kept to themselves. No one bothered them, at least while we were still there. The only bad thing is that Danny could use a few table manners... Food is meant to be seen on the plate, not fully exposed in the mouth. When we left, I nodded and signalled two thumbs up. They all smiled and nodded in return.

    We are not just reading lip service. Our players are in it together. On and off the floor.
    Not trying to poop on your story(great story) but I remember looking at some pictures of the Pacers players last year in Disney and I remember reading similar posts to this one just to find out at the end of the year and few months later that some players had egos(Paul George said this) and it was reported that DJ and probably DC were traded because they were malcontents.

    I guess that what I'm trying to say is that we should take a lot of this public things(eating and going out in public) with a truck load of salt.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-13-2013 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    No dj love? Looks to me like we might have our backup pg finally.
    I think that it's the quality of the Players that he's paired up. Given that the rotation will likely tighten up in the Playoffs ( which means less Hansbrough and less Green and MAYBE more Granger at the backup PF spot ) coupled with some creative lineup rotations where DJ is always paired with at least 2 to 3 of the core 7 "reliable" Players ( GH/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert/Lance/Mahinmi ) and I think that he'll be able to continue to contribute like he is now.

    The only thing HE MUST work on is finishing when driving to the hoop. He gets A LOT of quick transition steals but when driving to the hoop...he's not able to finish when running at full speed.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Can you blame the flu-bug? We can't find a virus antibiotic but when the virus realizes its about to go up against David West it just cowers away.
    I think that if West did get the flu....his Bad-@ss-ery would probably stave off the virus and his body would actually create a BAMF Antivirus that would cure the flu PERMANENTLY. That's why the flu-bug doesn't want to infect West....it knows that it will lose.

    Has West reached the legendary status of Dale Davis yet?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    I want to ask those who are in attendance this. And please I am not insinuating anything.
    Mark Boyle said that Lance has gotten 3 techs in the last 9 days.

    Are these techs just a fired up guy who reels it in after the penalty? Or is this a progression of mis-managed behavior?

    I ask those in attendance cause honestly I don't know or can't even say. My gut says that as his role increases so do the opportunities for his firing attitude to spark. Old Lance would not be able to adjust. But new Lance can be himself without going overboard.

    But still he has to reel it in a bit more. If Lance was loosing it I would expect him to retaliate against JR Smith when he shoved Lance to the ground.

    In other news. Lance is the most improved player because he has improved on both ends of the court. Don't get me wrong. PG's improvement is more detrimental to the team because it comes on iso and scoring, and we just don't have enough of it. But Lance has improved, especially on the defensive end. He isn't consistent, but I think that will come when he guards the same player of the course of a couple of seasons.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Not trying to poop on your story(great story) but I remember looking at some pictures of the Pacers players last year in Disney and I remember reading similar posts to this one just to find out at the end of the year and few months later that some players had egos(Paul George said this) and it was reported that DJ and probably DC were traded because they were malcontents.

    I guess that what I'm trying to say is that we should take a lot of this public things(eating and going out in public) with a truck load of salt.
    Agreed, however we have no reason to believe that the "core" players (Starting lineup plus Stephenson) are anything less than harmonious. We already knew Danny and Paul were close, and Roy gets along with everyone. I could see DJA as being a bit of a malcontent, but then he got to start a few games and i'd wager he feels a bit more important now, and he seems to be on track too.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I want to ask those who are in attendance this. And please I am not insinuating anything.
    Mark Boyle said that Lance has gotten 3 techs in the last 9 days.

    Are these techs just a fired up guy who reels it in after the penalty? Or is this a progression of mis-managed behavior?

    I ask those in attendance cause honestly I don't know or can't even say. My gut says that as his role increases so do the opportunities for his firing attitude to spark. Old Lance would not be able to adjust. But new Lance can be himself without going overboard.

    But still he has to reel it in a bit more. If Lance was loosing it I would expect him to retaliate against JR Smith when he shoved Lance to the ground.

    In other news. Lance is the most improved player because he has improved on both ends of the court. Don't get me wrong. PG's improvement is more detrimental to the team because it comes on iso and scoring, and we just don't have enough of it. But Lance has improved, especially on the defensive end. He isn't consistent, but I think that will come when he guards the same player of the course of a couple of seasons.
    He got one just for looking at the other teams bench to hard. I thought it was a really stupid call.

    And he got one last night where Biyombo blatantly shoved him twice. The Bobcats announcers thought that Biyombo should have got the tech.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: More than one way to skin a cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I want to ask those who are in attendance this. And please I am not insinuating anything.
    Mark Boyle said that Lance has gotten 3 techs in the last 9 days.

    Are these techs just a fired up guy who reels it in after the penalty? Or is this a progression of mis-managed behavior?
    I thought the T he got against the Knicks was ********, and I thought the one last night was a pretty weak T overall. The only real one I had a problem with was the MIL T that he got for berating the ref on the no-call.

    Wouldn't really consider it mis-managed behavior. If anything, he's probably closer to fired up.
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