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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

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  • #16
    Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    The only thing that really worries me about Frank, is how he's going to react if he has to put his foot down with a(the) player(s). Maybe he's already done it, and it just went over smoothly we never really knew, but the buddy-type coach who sings everyone's praises can't be used for all bumpy roads.

    It will just be interesting when we see a nastier side of Frank, and how players will react.
    I don't have the articles at my fingertips, but I distinctly remember seeing several mentions in Mike's blog at the Star last year and early this year about Frank laying into people and challenging them in an aggressive manner. There was a quote from a player that said something to the effect of "his doesn't do it all the time, which is all the more reason to listen when he does."

    I think he just doesn't do it in public. He saw how well that worked with this group of guys.

    Still on the Vogel wagon and excited about this move. He's had several bumps in the road and he's made adjustments. I think he's an above average coach now and in 5-10 years he'll be cited as one of the best in the NBA.
    Last edited by gummy; 01-07-2013, 09:31 PM.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

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    • #17
      Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
      The only thing that really worries me about Frank, is how he's going to react if he has to put his foot down with a(the) player(s). Maybe he's already done it, and it just went over smoothly we never really knew, but the buddy-type coach who sings everyone's praises can't be used for all bumpy roads.

      It will just be interesting when we see a nastier side of Frank, and how players will react.
      He already has had to do that with James Posey.

      I can tell you from sitting near the bench that 90% of the time he is all smiles and head nods with the refs. but believe me when he feels they have messed something up he let's loose with the venacular that should only be uttered by Satan sitting on the toilet.

      I've also seen him go after Lance when he came out of a game when he screwed up. He wasn't beligerant with him but he certainly was firm.

      Now the difference with him is that later he came down and talked with Lance again, rubbed him on the head and both went away smiling.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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      • #18
        Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
        The only thing that really worries me about Frank, is how he's going to react if he has to put his foot down with a(the) player(s). Maybe he's already done it, and it just went over smoothly we never really knew, but the buddy-type coach who sings everyone's praises can't be used for all bumpy roads.

        It will just be interesting when we see a nastier side of Frank, and how players will react.
        He's put his foot down a few times successfully. It actually has more impact when a person is generally on the nicer side of things.

        The absolute best thing about Frank, is that he does not believe he is always right, and clearly willing and able to learn from others around him. And he's willing to ask for help. His team comes before his pride.
        Last edited by Sookie; 01-07-2013, 05:50 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

          Originally posted by gummy View Post
          I don't have the articles at my fingertips, but I distinctly remember seeing several mentions in Mike's blog at the Star last year and early this year about Frank laying into people and challenging them in an aggressive manner. There was a quote from a player that said something to the effect of "his doesn't do it all the time, which is all the more reason to listen when he does.

          I think he just doesn't do it in public. He saw how well that worked with this group of guys.

          Still on the Vogel wagon and excited about this move. He's had several bumps in the road and he's made adjustments. I think he's an above average coach now and in 5-10 years he'll be cited as one of the best in the NBA.
          I think there is something to not blowing up all the time like a lot of coaches do. The kind of coaches that blow up a lot are probably the coaches that lose their players the quickest as the blowing up losses all meaning. All that goes through their brains is, "Here he goes again. (eyeroll)" I also think that was what made Dungy such a good coach. While guys like Brown fizzle out in two years.

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          • #20
            Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            I say this in all seriousness. Between knowledge of the game, connecting with the players, public relations & just overall presence I believe that if he stays beyond his current contract that we will have the second most important coach in Pacers history. Second only to Slick Leonard.

            Right now he is behind Brown, Bird & Carlisle but he's not as far behind them as you might think. Remember I'm factoring in a lot here, not just his X's & O's or player substitutions.

            I'm talking about Frank Vogel being the face of this franchise, like Slick was and to a point still is to this day.

            He'll probably never be the X & O guy that Brown or Carlisle was and he will probably never be able to connect with the players and command their respect like Bird did. But IMO he has a command of both that only Slick has had up until now.

            There is a reason my avatar has been the Indiana Fighting Vogels for almost two years. BTW that phrase was coined by none other than Ernie Johnson of TNT fame.

            This is the best front office decision they have made all year and frankly probably the best front office decision that Walsh has made in over a decade.

            I believe in Frank.
            Wow Peck that is quite an endorsement. I hope your prediction comes true.

            I will say that it has felt like a breath of much-needed fresh air since Vogel took over in 2011. He's got room to grow in many areas but has already shown that he is willing to learn/grow/adapt when needed. Very excited to have him for the next few years.

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            • #21
              Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

              Originally posted by Peck View Post
              He already has had to do that with James Posey.

              I can tell you from sitting near the bench that 90% of the time he is all smiles and head nods with the refs. but believe me when he feels they have messed something up he let's loose with the venacular that should only be uttered by Satan sitting on the toilet.

              I've also seen him go after Lance when he came out of a game when he screwed up. He wasn't beligerant with him but he certainly was firm.

              Now the difference with him is that later he came down and talked with Lance again, rubbed him on the head and both went away smiling.
              A personal experience about Frank:

              During the Utah game, a call had gone against us a possession earlier (I can't remember what it was) and Frank was casually talking to the ref. Then Green worked a pick and roll, and started to drive the lane, in mid-sentence Frank stops whatever he was saying--turns to the ref and says "watch this", as Green dunks on Earl Watson and gets the and-1. Frank laughs and tells the ref, I told you--then carries on the rest of the conversation...Priceless.

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              • #22
                Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                People, you also got to remember. Part of being a great leader is finding and bringing in great assistants. Ghengis Khan wouldn't have conquered most of the known world without selecting great generals who were loyal to him. Bird wouldn't have been such a good coach without Carlisle standing next to him. Being able to bring in a guy with the prestige of Shaw, and Shaw being willing to say no to head coaching jobs, is part of what will help Vogel be a good coach.

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                • #23
                  Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                  *nevermind; already answered*

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                  • #24
                    Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                    Thank god because we all know from the JOB extension that players simply refuse to respect or play for any coach with a hint of "lame duck" status to them. Finally Danny will stop faking his injury and Roy will stop screwing around with his pretend bad shooting because they know they can't tank the team into firing Frank now.*







                    * there isn't a deep enough green to cover it

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                    • #25
                      Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                      Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                      Thank god because we all know from the JOB extension that players simply refuse to respect or play for any coach with a hint of "lame duck" status to them. Finally Danny will stop faking his injury and Roy will stop screwing around with his pretend bad shooting because they know they can't tank the team into firing Frank now.*







                      * there isn't a deep enough green to cover it
                      The irony of course, is that we have Jimmy to thank for Frank.

                      I don't even dislike the guy anymore because of it. (alright, that's a lie..but I still appreciate the gift.)

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                      • #26
                        Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                        Like many observers, the rough start to this season had me worried whether Frank had any more tricks up his sleeve.

                        Given the circumstances - not having Danny, lack of quality depth at the wings and a bench unit that been maddening, we've seen that Frank has more than one way to get postive results.

                        I'm still not sold that he'll be the one coaching when these guys hit their peak. Even Larry Brown gave way to Larry Bird (after the season we do not discuss, of course.)

                        He's earned this extension. Look where we are now, in first place in the division and up to an almost 60% winning percentage on the season in spite of the rough start. if my math is right, we've gone 14-6 (70%) since the west coast trip started after Thanksgiving, and that road trip allowed Frank to rally the team and coach them. Good for him and good for the Pacers.
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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                        • #27
                          Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                          I know its a little early for VJOB day, but someone has to bring back the New Identity press conference.

                          "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                          "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

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                          • #28
                            Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                            My favorite thing about Frank was earlier this year on tv watching him yell "WHAT THE F***! WHAT THE F***!"
                            DG for 3

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                            • #29
                              Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                              Couldn't be happier for him. Very deserving.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Pacers have signed Frank Vogel to a contract extension.

                                The only bad thing about this is that it wasn't an extension for life. He is definitely my favorite NBA Pacers coach.

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