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Thread: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

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    Default RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Dr. Andrews says RG3 was never cleared to re-enter game
    Posted by Mike Florio on January 6, 2013, 10:45 AM EST
    Washington Redskins starting quarterback Griffin III is helped off field by team trainers late in fourth quarter against Baltimore in Landover Reuters

    Renowned sports surgeon Dr. James Andrews serves as one of the Redskins’ game-day physicians. That relationship could now be in danger, grave or otherwise.

    Andrews admits to USA Today that he never cleared quarterback Robert Griffin III to re-enter a Week 15 game against the Ravens, after Griffin suffered a knee injury that looked much worse than it ended up being. Griffin skipped one play, re-entered the game, and then exited for good several snaps later.

    “He didn’t even let us look at him,” Andrews tells Robert Klemko of USA Today. “He came off the field, walked through the sidelines, circled back through the players, and took off back to the field. It wasn’t our opinion.

    “We didn’t even get to touch him or talk to him. Scared the hell out of me.”

    Andrews’ comments may scare the hell out of coach Mike Shanahan, who specifically said the day after the game that Andrews had cleared Griffin to return.

    “He’s on the sidelines with Dr. Andrews,” Shanahan said at the time, via Klemko. “He had a chance to look at him and he said he could go back in. [I said] ‘Hey, Dr. Andrews, can Robert go back in?’

    ‘Yeah, he can go back in.’

    ‘Robert, go back in.’

    “That was it.”

    But that wasn’t it. And now, as the Redskins prepare to host the Seahawks on Sunday afternoon, Shanahan and Andrews may be having an awkward conversation at some point this morning. Especially since Andrews is still concerned about Griffin’s status.

    “I’m the one that shut him down that day, finally,” Andrews said. “I’ve been a nervous wreck letting him come back as quick as he has. He’s doing a lot better this week, but he’s still recovering and I’m holding my breath because of it.

    “He passed all the tests and all the functional things we do, but it’s been a trying moment for me, to be honest with you.”

    This back-and-forth highlights the tension between doctors and the teams that pay those doctors to provide care and evaluation to players. And it suggests that Andrews, who doesn’t need his relationship with the Redskins in order to remain the go-to orthropedic specialist for NFL players, has opted to jeopardize that role with the team in order to keep his conscience clear.

    Other team-hired doctors don’t have that luxury. Routinely, those doctors tell coaches what the coaches want to hear about player availability, knowing that if the coaches aren’t told what they want to hear they’ll find another doctor who will.That’s why the NFL and NFLPA should work toward the use of a truly independent staff of game-day physicians, who can work with only one concern in mind — the health and well-being of their patients.
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-game/related/
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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I don't know why Andrews would invent this, it doesn't make much professional sense any way you shake it, even if he had malicious intentions, I mean Andrews has one helluva amazing rep that he can actually back up with results (see Adrian Peterson). We don't know the whole story, but that fact alone makes me lean toward the doctor as the truthful party. As a medical professional, he probably wanted to make sure it was out there that he didn't suggest RG3 to go back out, that would be on my conscious, too. Someone said he was writing a book, but the damage caused by him "outing" the 'Skins would be a much larger financial and credibility hit than a book. I mean, it's hard to imagine he's got much of a relationship with the 'Skins after this... that's a public and pretty damning confession.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-07-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I commented last night, but the fact he is promoting a book makes for weird timing.

    That said, doctors are arrogant and his name is what he has. I dont know much about this guy, but he is the pro team doctor for like 4 or 5 professional teams.

    I actually beleive the doctor more then Shanny, which scares me.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I find this strange... Why would Shanahan lie? Why not just say RG3 said he walked it off and said he was OK and so he ASSUMED the doctor had looked at him? Why put words in the doctor's mouth? I suppose one answer would be because that is the most controversy quieting answer. But then you have to hope the doctor plays along. Which that seems kind of risky rather than just playing the "I thought the doctor looked at him, RG3 said he was OK" card.

    But in any case the Redskins sure took a gamble with their face of the franchise and future. And last night it appeared they were still gambling.

    There will be questions about whether RG3 should've been pulled last night (or if he even should've been playing at all) due to his knee. Shanahan said RG3 told him he was OK ("hurt, not injured") and he wanted to play. I'm not really sure RG3 did anything but hurt the team last night in the 2nd half due to his limited mobility. Maybe it was all supposed to be a lesson for him: Don't gamble too much when running and work on the passing game so the running game isn't as important to him. Otherwise, injuries will be the outcome

    I just don't know...

    Since you can't trust RG3 to play the game in a way that minimizes his injury risk I find it had to believe that the team could trust him to tell them how badly he was hurting. Then factor in what their eyes were showing them with him limping around the field, his running game negated, and his throwing/vision issues exposed.

    He's a gamer... no denying it... But he and the Redskins are going to have to take a different road with his career and decision making or else he's not going to be around long term like he could and should be. ...IMHO...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I said yesterday I bet Shanny comes out and says he talked to an assistant who talked to the Dr. He will chalk it up to a misunderstanding

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    There will be questions about whether RG3 should've been pulled last night (or if he even should've been playing at all) due to his knee. Shanahan said RG3 told him he was OK ("hurt, not injured") and he wanted to play. I'm not really sure RG3 did anything but hurt the team last night in the 2nd half due to his limited mobility. Maybe it was all supposed to be a lesson for him: Don't gamble too much when running and work on the passing game so the running game isn't as important to him. Otherwise, injuries will be the outcome
    If RG3 had pulled himself he would be called a quitter and soft.

    I have no problem with him wanting to stay in, my problem is with the coach not pulling him.

    I never even played pro sports, but at the college and semi pro level I hardly ever see/hear of guys saying "Pull me out." Sometimes you gotta say "I know you think you are good, but you need to sit down". It is a tough decision to make, but that is the reason the coach gets paid 12M dollars a year

    I will leave the rest of your quote alone, as I have already said numerous times that the Redskins have changed the offense a lot, and RG3 has played a lot smarter since his first concussion
    Last edited by vapacersfan; 01-07-2013 at 10:22 AM.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I don't think anyone would have called RG3 a quitter, even after the first big knee injury. I certainly would not have. I do think his style of play lends to him being injured in ways like that.

    But no one would have called him weak or a quitter. At first it sort of seemed brave... but after awhile it just seemed stupid to me. He still doesn't believe he hurt his team, but in quarters 2 and 3, especially after he tweaked his knee again early in the game, he did hurt his team by being out there. The other part of having him out there wasn't in regards to his effectiveness, but to his vulnerability. Sure he can limp around and throw some passes out there, but he's also at a much greater exposure to further damage that weak knee.
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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I never said RG3 should've pulled himself. I only speculated about the coach needing to do that.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    I never said you did. I was more speaking in generals. I tend to agree with you, and like I said when you make 12M a year to make decisions.....well sometimes you gotta make unpopular ones

    Of course hindsight in 20/20. And remember Cutler pulled himself a couple of years ago. And all I remember is people calling him soft and saying he quit on the team.

    Of course hindsight being 20/20 I wish they woulda pulled Robert at the end of the 1st quarter up 14 points

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    IIRC Cutler didn't seem to be all that injured.

    I have a feeling if RG3 would've pulled himself nobody would've questioned it. The storyline would've been "He's obviously hurt. This has to be a concern because no way RG3 comes out unless it's bad"

    RG3 already has a rep for being a competitor and a tough kid so I don't think anyone would be second guessing him, especially considering we all saw his leg go 'rag doll' a couple of weeks ago, can see the brace he's wearing now, and certainly saw him laboring on the field.
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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Just one look at Andrews face as he walked off the field behind RGIII last night told me everything I needed to know. It was a look of grim acceptance that what he had feared all along had just happened.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    No one would have called him a quitter if he came out after the first quarter. He could barely lift his right leg. This wasn't about playing through pain, he had proven he could do that, this was about a structural piece of his body possibly being severely damaged.

    I go back to what I said in the other thread, and I stick by it, the damage was done already before that 4th quarter. That right leg was begging to give out even he was setting to throw, go back and watch the replays when he plants his foot the knee bends awkwardly several times, it didn't have anything stabilizing it IMO, which is a terrible sign with that brace on there. The knee was bending weird well before that 4th quarter play, he was just not letting himself get caught with his weight on it, til he was caught in a snap position in the 4th and the knee finally was caught holding up his whole body and it just went out immediately.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 01-07-2013 at 11:46 AM.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I dont know much about this guy, but he is the pro team doctor for like 4 or 5 professional teams.
    He's only the Michael Jordan of sports medicine. Literally the Best in the World.
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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Yea, Andrews is a superstar in a field that doesn't really have stars.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    He's the guy who helped on Brees shoulder surgery and the dude who rebuilt AP's knee, those two alone should give you an idea of just what he knows about joints.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I never said you did. I was more speaking in generals. I tend to agree with you, and like I said when you make 12M a year to make decisions.....well sometimes you gotta make unpopular ones

    Of course hindsight in 20/20. And remember Cutler pulled himself a couple of years ago. And all I remember is people calling him soft and saying he quit on the team.

    Of course hindsight being 20/20 I wish they woulda pulled Robert at the end of the 1st quarter up 14 points
    Cutler didn't pull himself out the team doctor wouldn't let him play.

    Im glad we have a doctor who cares, his health is more important than any one football game. Of course the players want to play Jay did and so did RG but it's the coaches and the doctors job to sit them.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Coaches almost always make the final call. Not the docs.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    He's only the Michael Jordan of sports medicine. Literally the Best in the World.
    Not being an ***, I honestly did not know who he was.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    No one would have called him a quitter if he came out after the first quarter. He could barely lift his right leg. This wasn't about playing through pain, he had proven he could do that, this was about a structural piece of his body possibly being severely damaged.

    I go back to what I said in the other thread, and I stick by it, the damage was done already before that 4th quarter. That right leg was begging to give out even he was setting to throw, go back and watch the replays when he plants his foot the knee bends awkwardly several times, it didn't have anything stabilizing it IMO, which is a terrible sign with that brace on there. The knee was bending weird well before that 4th quarter play, he was just not letting himself get caught with his weight on it, til he was caught in a snap position in the 4th and the knee finally was caught holding up his whole body and it just went out immediately.
    I missed the play (heard it in the radio and DVR'd the first quarter) but the radio guys said the bad injury came on the late hit on the TD throw in the first quarter

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Cutler didn't pull himself out the team doctor wouldn't let him play.

    Im glad we have a doctor who cares, his health is more important than any one football game. Of course the players want to play Jay did and so did RG but it's the coaches and the doctors job to sit them.
    I agree.

    Maybe I am mis-remembering, but I coulda sworn Jay pulled himself, people called him a quitter, then the next week when the results came out there was a hella lot of backtracking.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I agree.

    Maybe I am mis-remembering, but I coulda sworn Jay pulled himself, people called him a quitter, then the next week when the results came out there was a hella lot of backtracking.
    "It's no player decision," Smith said. "For us, Jay hurt his knee. He couldn't go. ... The trainers, doctors and all -- they're the ones who really made that decision.

    Lovie Smith

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz2HJZPhKLv


    Jay and RG had the same injury the only difference was Jay was benched before we saw him really bad like RG was after he re injured it. pretty good chance if Jay plays he blows his knee out like it appeared RG did late in the 4th last night.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    FWIW, and the source is biased, RG3 was never told he could not play, and RG3 was never told he could not play. Andrews even cleared him and told everyone he could play. Obviously he said something diffrent to his source at the USA, but to the guys who he reports to he never said "do not play him".

    Sounds like two strong egos collided.

    Though if it comes out Andrews lied he is done.

    if it comes out Shanny did not look or did not take his advice, I feel the same way. He should be done.

    We all trust someone too much at points in our life (think about bad advice your best friend or mother have given you) but if you do not even seek out medical advice....or ignore it.

    Of course, if the doctor kept his mouth shut and played the company line he is just as much an idiot IMO....

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Why would Andrews lie about RGIII's injury and say he can play? He has absolutely nothing to gain from that. Andrews rep is just amazing, there is no reason for him to want to rush RGIII out there. Only one guy really stood to gain something by making sure RGIII got back on the field.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 01-07-2013 at 01:43 PM.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Andrews has his medical credibility to uphold, his clientele is a Who's Who of sports superstars. I highly doubt he'd just come out and make this up. And he said all this BEFORE Griffin went back out and re-tweaked his knee TWICE yesterday. I mean, why even do that unless he's telling hte truth? It would be more suspect if Andrews came out and said all that after last night's game... but when he said it, Griffin was supposedly on the up and up.

    Like Trader said, he really had nothing to gain from lying about it.
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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Also, it's not like Andrews is a patsy who would need to toe the Redskins company line. If the Redskins fired him because he wouldn't clear RGIII 31 other NFL teams would be on the phone immediately to make him their team doctor.

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    Default Re: RG3 Was Never Cleared By Dr to Re-enter Wk 15 Game after knee injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Only one guy really stood to gain something by making sure RGIII got back on the field.
    And who was that? Because in hindsight I'm not sure anyone stood to gain anything by it....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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