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Thread: 2013 offseason

  1. #26
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    I think a lot of people are overrating our wide receiver group. Reggie Wayne is magnificent. T.Y. Hilton has loads of potential as a very good 3rd WR. But outside of that, we don't have much. Donnie Avery pretty much sucks. LaVon Brazill doesn't look like he'll ever be more than a very poor man's Hilton. While the price for a Larry Fitzgerald, if he were even available, Mike Wallace, or somebody of that ilk may be a lot to handle, we're going to have tons of money and another option outside is pretty imperative in my opinion.

    Obviously, Dwight Freeney has played his last down as a Colt.

    I'd like to bring back Pat McAfee but if some of the numbers I've heard being thrown about are even in the ballpark, it would be hard to justify. As long as it is around $2 million, he's probably worth it.

    Offensive line should be the top priority. They were laughably bad this season. Andrew Luck took more hits than every quarterback in the league and still made them look better than they were. The problem is that improving an o-line is not an easy proposition without a very high draft choice. The elite tackles will all be gone by 24. Anthony Castonzo, while certainly not a great player, is the only guy on the roster who is a legit NFL starter. You can find interior guys late in drafts but tackles pretty much have to be taken in the top-15 to get a day one starter. Very good tackles don't come available on the free agent market though I've heard rumors of Jake Long possibly being available. Of course, if that is the case it'd be a pretty big red flag to me. Miami wouldn't make him available without significant injury or performance issues, especially after just drafting their franchise quarterback last season.

    The secondary needs a lot of help. Vontae Davis is pretty good. That trade, while a 2nd round pick is valuable, was a very good one. Davis was worth it. He's not a lockdown guy by any means but he was far and away our best corner. Antoine Bethea, though he seemed to take a step back this year, is pretty good. Outside of that, there isn't much. Jerraud Powers is pretty good when healthy, which he never is. Darius Butler is not bad for a 5th corner. The same statement probably applies to Cassius Vaughn. Tom Zbikowski has a legitimate case as the worst Colts starter since Gilbert Gardner. He is that bad. And he may even be worse. Joe Lefeged is a good special teamer but that's all he is. Clearly we need helpe here as well.

    The defensive line needs a few pieces but there were so many injuries there this year it's hard to pick out exactly what the needs are. I lean towards an anchor in the middle though there seems to be some pretty big optimism for Josh Chapman when he gets into the fold next year.

    I like Vick Ballard but we need another running back. Preferably a more versatile guy. Ballard is pretty good running the ball. Unfortunately, that's it. He wasn't a good blocker and he could not catch.

    Clearly we're going to need another outside linebacker. It's going to have to be somebody who has more cover skills than our current group. I understood why they had to do it this season but I'd be happy to never see Robert Mathis in pass coverage again. Jerrell Freeman is a stud. Pat Angerer was awful this year. Hopefully he'll return to form by getting healthy this offseason.

    Basically the only group on our team that doesn't need major upgrades is quarterback. But that's to be expected when a 2 win team becomes an 11 win team in a single year. Fortunately, that gives us the luxury of basically taking the best player available in the draft regardless of position. And after Grigson's first draft, I'm pretty confident he'll find the right guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    So who's going to be available to replace Arians when he gets a head coaching job? Hate to see the guy go but it's probably likely. Any interest in a retread like Cam Cameron since Pagano is familiar with him?
    Norv Turner, I hope.
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  4. #28
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I think a lot of people are overrating our wide receiver group. Reggie Wayne is magnificent. T.Y. Hilton has loads of potential as a very good 3rd WR. But outside of that, we don't have much. Donnie Avery pretty much sucks. LaVon Brazill doesn't look like he'll ever be more than a very poor man's Hilton. While the price for a Larry Fitzgerald, if he were even available, Mike Wallace, or somebody of that ilk may be a lot to handle, we're going to have tons of money and another option outside is pretty imperative in my opinion.

    Obviously, Dwight Freeney has played his last down as a Colt.

    I'd like to bring back Pat McAfee but if some of the numbers I've heard being thrown about are even in the ballpark, it would be hard to justify. As long as it is around $2 million, he's probably worth it.

    Offensive line should be the top priority. They were laughably bad this season. Andrew Luck took more hits than every quarterback in the league and still made them look better than they were. The problem is that improving an o-line is not an easy proposition without a very high draft choice. The elite tackles will all be gone by 24. Anthony Castonzo, while certainly not a great player, is the only guy on the roster who is a legit NFL starter. You can find interior guys late in drafts but tackles pretty much have to be taken in the top-15 to get a day one starter. Very good tackles don't come available on the free agent market though I've heard rumors of Jake Long possibly being available. Of course, if that is the case it'd be a pretty big red flag to me. Miami wouldn't make him available without significant injury or performance issues, especially after just drafting their franchise quarterback last season.

    The secondary needs a lot of help. Vontae Davis is pretty good. That trade, while a 2nd round pick is valuable, was a very good one. Davis was worth it. He's not a lockdown guy by any means but he was far and away our best corner. Antoine Bethea, though he seemed to take a step back this year, is pretty good. Outside of that, there isn't much. Jerraud Powers is pretty good when healthy, which he never is. Darius Butler is not bad for a 5th corner. The same statement probably applies to Cassius Vaughn. Tom Zbikowski has a legitimate case as the worst Colts starter since Gilbert Gardner. He is that bad. And he may even be worse. Joe Lefeged is a good special teamer but that's all he is. Clearly we need helpe here as well.

    The defensive line needs a few pieces but there were so many injuries there this year it's hard to pick out exactly what the needs are. I lean towards an anchor in the middle though there seems to be some pretty big optimism for Josh Chapman when he gets into the fold next year.

    I like Vick Ballard but we need another running back. Preferably a more versatile guy. Ballard is pretty good running the ball. Unfortunately, that's it. He wasn't a good blocker and he could not catch.

    Clearly we're going to need another outside linebacker. It's going to have to be somebody who has more cover skills than our current group. I understood why they had to do it this season but I'd be happy to never see Robert Mathis in pass coverage again. Jerrell Freeman is a stud. Pat Angerer was awful this year. Hopefully he'll return to form by getting healthy this offseason.

    Basically the only group on our team that doesn't need major upgrades is quarterback. But that's to be expected when a 2 win team becomes an 11 win team in a single year. Fortunately, that gives us the luxury of basically taking the best player available in the draft regardless of position. And after Grigson's first draft, I'm pretty confident he'll find the right guys.
    You underrated our receiving core big time
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Clyde Christensen
    :vomit:

    I would like to take a look at Whisenhunt.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Why, Peyton never had that and he could get it done, we still have height at the goalline with the TE's if we need them. I would not mind it but it is no where near a priority in my book.
    Big WRs have a natural advantage. Sure Peyton never had that and he did fine, but why wouldn't you want to improve on it if you can? TY hilton is great for a rookie but he is 5'9" for crying out loud.

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  8. #31
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Personnel first priorities:

    - O-Line, O-Line, O-Line
    - D-Line
    - Running back (Ballard is our new Dominic Rhodes, but I'd rather have a big dog every down back)

    And then some depth/re-working at safety and corner.

    - They need to get the Arians situation figured out.

    - They need to work on finishing drives.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    How bad is Donnie Avery? I think from Week 4 on Brazill was more reliable than he was.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    :vomit:

    I would like to take a look at Whisenhunt.
    Clyde called our most consistent game of the season yesterday, and took advantage or what the Ravens D was trying to do, if it was not for 7 dropped passes and a less than stellar line that allowed Luck to get hit 12 times there was a good chance we would have won that game.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Big WRs have a natural advantage. Sure Peyton never had that and he did fine, but why wouldn't you want to improve on it if you can? TY hilton is great for a rookie but he is 5'9" for crying out loud.
    I know how tall he is, and so is Wes Welker and Antonio Brown, when you have guys that are dynamic they make up for size easily, there are different natural advantages to WR's of all sizes, the best thing that you can have in a WR is a guy who can get open and catch, to me if he can not do those two things it does not matter how tall he is I really don't want him, and there are many tall WR's that fit that description.

    Like I said, I would not mind a tall WR but it is not a priority, unless we can get a allstar tall WR that can get open and catch without sacrificing money to build the rest of our team then I am not to interested, so that marks out many of the guys available, we had Kris Adams and you see how that turned out.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Personnel first priorities:

    - O-Line, O-Line, O-Line
    - D-Line
    - Running back (Ballard is our new Dominic Rhodes, but I'd rather have a big dog every down back)

    And then some depth/re-working at safety and corner.

    - They need to get the Arians situation figured out.

    - They need to work on finishing drives.
    Really, Ballard showed he could be an every down back, what is it that he does not do that you expect from a bigger back, he pushes for extra yards, can get skinny through small holes and knows how to accelerate to get up field.

    His biggest issues are to get better at blocking and catching out of the backfield.
    Why so SERIOUS

  13. #36

    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Yup, better to just get guys you know can play the OL in Free Agency than worrying if a draft pick will pan out, especially with OL being such a big need.
    IMO he will use both. I could see us drafting a OL in the first round or trading back for a guy like Barret Jones or Kyle Long. The line next year will need a RT and from what I saw of Justice I still don't think he is a long term solution there. Linkenbach needs to go and Justice as well since he won't come cheap. I didn't mind Shipley but he would have to come cheap.

    The first round draft pick has some flexibility and from Grigson's last draft he will just take the BPA which is fine with me. Whoever ends up dropping to us will be just fine and there will be some solid RT's or guards there that will provide much needed depth and added protection for Luck.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    One last thing and I will get out you guys hair, Some of you guys talk about our rookies like they have been around forever, Vick Ballard only started half of the season, and probably will get better at pass blocking as well as catching the ball, how much, not sure but better than what he was, he will probably also get better running as far as field vision and understanding the NFL, Hilton is still young and will get better at route running and learning how to use his quickness to take advantage of guys covering him on many routes. Brazil we barely got to see much of him and honestly we won't know more until we get to see more.

    As far as the Tall WR isn't that basically what we drafted Fleener for, majority of the time he lines up spread out, if he can improve his route running and become a consistent pass catcher along with learning how to use his frame to block out defenders he will end up being dynamic.

    If our rookies don't improve I will be bummed, but I have a good feeling they will.
    Why so SERIOUS

  15. #38
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Really, Ballard showed he could be an every down back, what is it that he does not do that you expect from a bigger back, he pushes for extra yards, can get skinny through small holes and knows how to accelerate to get up field.

    His biggest issues are to get better at blocking and catching out of the backfield.
    Nothing wrong with that, but you also just described Dominic Rhodes. Ballard, like Rhodes, is a guy who can step in and take 1st-team reps, but isn't really a guy you can ride like a Lynch or Edge. He's there to keep the defense honest, but he's not a focal point of opposing defenses. If we were to get that o-line beefed up and then nab a true 1st rate RB, that would take so much pressure off Luck. Could you imagine Luck having the Edge behind him? My God it would open up this offense so much.

    I think they could have success with Ballard, but to really take the next step, they need to step up the RB position. And if Ballard goes down, who's up? I personally think Ballard is a brilliant backup option, good enough to serve as a starter, but he'd be a tremendous "change of pace" back. If we had a 1-2 punch of (insert stud here) and Ballard, I'd feel a whole lot better. I like Ballard, but let's be honest, he's probly not even starting on most teams. And he's our best option.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-07-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Ballard is a really bad blocking back right now. He will need to get much better.

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  17. #40

    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I think they could have success with Ballard, but to really take the next step, they need to step up the RB position. And if Ballard goes down, who's up? I personally think Ballard is a brilliant backup option, good enough to serve as a starter, but he'd be a tremendous "change of pace" back. If we had a 1-2 punch of (insert stud here) and Ballard, I'd feel a whole lot better. I like Ballard, but let's be honest, he's probly not even starting on most teams. And he's our best option.
    The problem is that there won't be a true number one option in FA's so where is this next great RB going to come from. Barring a trade I would much rather sit tight and wait till 2014 and draft someone.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 01-07-2013 at 12:44 PM.

  18. #41

    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    How bad is Donnie Avery? I think from Week 4 on Brazill was more reliable than he was.
    Awful. One of the worst regular players in the league. WR is a definite need, it's not immediately pressing (unless Reggie remembers how old he is next year), but we need to get a new #1 fairly soon.

    Anyway, wonder what it'd take to get Ben Tate from Houston. In the division so they probably wouldn't even answer the phone, but it's the last year of his rookie deal and I can't see them paying him with Foster.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Unless a RB is one of the top 3-5 guys in the league, you never pay them. Sign 1 or 2 cheap guys in free agency, draft another guy round 4 or later, and call it a day as far as RBs are concerned.
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  21. #43
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    There are a ton of serviceable to good WR's available in free agency this year. There's really no need to trade for or draft one earlier than round 4.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Nothing wrong with that, but you also just described Dominic Rhodes. Ballard, like Rhodes, is a guy who can step in and take 1st-team reps, but isn't really a guy you can ride like a Lynch or Edge. He's there to keep the defense honest, but he's not a focal point of opposing defenses. If we were to get that o-line beefed up and then nab a true 1st rate RB, that would take so much pressure off Luck. Could you imagine Luck having the Edge behind him? My God it would open up this offense so much.

    I think they could have success with Ballard, but to really take the next step, they need to step up the RB position. And if Ballard goes down, who's up? I personally think Ballard is a brilliant backup option, good enough to serve as a starter, but he'd be a tremendous "change of pace" back. If we had a 1-2 punch of (insert stud here) and Ballard, I'd feel a whole lot better. I like Ballard, but let's be honest, he's probly not even starting on most teams. And he's our best option.
    But how many Lynch or Edge type guys are even in the league now, I men it is all RBBC now a days, besides maybe like 5 possibly 6 guys (Foster, Peterson, Rice, Lynch, MJD) those guys are truly hard to find, and it is a better financial investment to pay 2 guys low money than one tons, I think if we get anyone it will just need to be a 3rd down back. Ballard got better as the season went on, and running behind our O-line and in our scheme is not a recipe for success. I don't think we really use a scheme that incorporates the RB as much as those systems do, so waiting to get a franchise type guy would be questionable, if one falls into your hands then fine, but I think the group we have right now is decent for the system we run.

    Think of this if Ballard would have been our starting RB all year I could have seen him have close to 1200-1300 yds this season.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Can find good backs anywhere, really. Look who the 'Skins put out there. I like Ballard, but we can't stop our search at him.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    Unless a RB is one of the top 3-5 guys in the league, you never pay them. Sign 1 or 2 cheap guys in free agency, draft another guy round 4 or later, and call it a day as far as RBs are concerned.
    Draft, FA, whatever, I never really specified how we get him. But I think the position needs more.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    You underrated our receiving core big time
    How? Outside of Reggie Wayne, who depsite his best efforts to make us all think otherwise, isn't getting younger and T.Y. Hilton who looks like a very capable 3rd WR, there is not a single WR in the bunch that should be getting regular time.

    I mean seriously. I'm going to have defend saying WR is a need when we started Donnie Avery? Donnie ****ing Avery?

    I should have also said that along with quarterback, TE is not a need. Dwayne Allen is a stud. He'll be an All-Pro before his career is over. And Coby Fleener, despite playing like way too much of a puss most of the time, is more than capable as a 2nd TE as he gets older.
    Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 01-07-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    How? Outside of Reggie Wayne, who depsite his best efforts to make us all think otherwise, isn't getting younger and T.Y. Hilton who looks like a very capable 3rd WR, there is not a single WR in the bunch that should be getting regular time.

    I mean seriously. I'm going to have defend saying WR is a need when we started Donnie Avery? Donnie ****ing Avery?

    I should have also said that along with quarterback, TE is not a need. Dwayne Allen is a stud. He'll be an All-Pro before his career is over. And Coby Fleener, despite playing like way too much of a puss most of the time, is more than capable as a 2nd TE as he gets older.
    You should read my previous post addressing our WR's looking at what we have, I think we will have to find a #1 eventually, but we are not in that bad of a situation now.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    You should read my previous post addressing our WR's looking at what we have, I think we will have to find a #1 eventually, but we are not in that bad of a situation now.
    We will have to find a #1 eventually but right now, we don't even have a #2. How can that be construed as not a bad situation? We've got a #1, a #3, and a couple of #6's.
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    Default Re: 2013 offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Can find good backs anywhere, really. Look who the 'Skins put out there. I like Ballard, but we can't stop our search at him.
    What do you mean, did you mean to say Can't find? Also do not just look at Morris as super, their running game was good, but that is because his running style fit their system, and they run as system that is running back friendly, put him on the Colts, and I would believe that he would have just a little bit better season than Ballard. The read option, ran well, is a QB, RB and WR's best friend
    Why so SERIOUS

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