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Thread: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Probably not the best game in the world to do another one of these for but here goes.

    I’ll give grades right now & just say a giant collective F with some players getting F+ a couple getting F- and probably only Tyler & O.J. getting anything above that. In other words I’m not going to waste my time with grades tonight, no tonight we will do this Bullet point style.

    • I was giving a very long leeway to David West for his shooting issues but this has been going on long enough now that IMO it is becoming an issue. We have been winning games so it hasn’t hurt overall but he has for about 3 weeks now been having a lot of shooting issues. I’ve noticed he & Roy are both missing the one handed runners close to the basket.

    • I said this last year & I’ll say it again here. I love George Hill but he is sometimes way to comfortable sitting out a few games. If you listened to the post game interview with Vogel you heard Wells ask what happened with George because before the game he was set to play & Frank said he was afraid he wouldn’t have explosiveness to his game. We really could have used him on Rondo tonight.

    • Frank Vogel did it again; he lost this game in the second quarter by running our bench as a unit and letting Boston go on a 17-3 run. I bet you forgot we actually were leading 20-19 when that occurred. I’m sorry but he has got to stop letting this occur. It is too hard for our starters on good nights let alone bad nights to have to come in and dig us out from that kind of deficit.

    • While I’m picking on Frank I’ll go here as well. There is no way West should have played the entire 3rd quarter again. Tyler once again was on fire & he lets him set almost the quarter before he comes back, by then the game was out of hand.

    • Paul had a bad night but in fairness to him Boston dedicated their entire defense to aggravating him & to a certain extent West.

    • I love Roy but God I wish we had an enforcer on our team. West is strong enough and skilled enough but frankly he likes to stay above the fray for the most part. The sad part is that the closest thing we have to an enforcer on our team is our small forward who is in a suite.

    • Garnett is a great player and yes that was a cheap shot, but let’s be honest who on our team is going to say or do anything about it? Roy’s response “C’mon man”.

    • Orlando looked pretty good for his time on the floor. As Quinn pointed out the confidence of playing in the D-league helped him with his shot. I am thrilled that we are using that system.

    • Gerald Green’s contract makes me cry a little every day, not the amount but the length. I think this guy is who he is & honestly I would like something else.

    • That was still a hell of a dunk though on the Cavs.

    • D.J. didn’t fool me with the two high scoring games & this game didn’t depress me either. He also is who he is. Next.

    • Tyler has put together a string of decent games and in fact really is the only Pacer who can walk off the floor saying they played up to their potential.

    • Roy didn’t suck but he just has absolutely lost any ability to impose his will on a game anymore. Not that he ever Shaq or anything but we are just regressing each and every game in the physical department. Pushed from spot to spot by every player he played against.

    • That Sullinger kid is a good rebounder. This is my first time seeing him but he seems to have a really good grasp on leverage, strength and positioning. He got some cheap fouls and he seems under sized but there is some real potential there.

    The good news about the NBA is that we don’t even have to wait for 24 hours to get a chance to redeem our selves. The bad news is that we don’t even get 24 hours before we have to play a team that has already beaten us twice this year with our best available lineup playing both times. If Hill can’t play, good God this could be bad.

    We are really going to have to start to sack up a little bit here because this next couple of weeks could see us elevate, hang or sadly even drop down and out of the playoff picture.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Surprised you didn't comment on Paul's early score attempts. The dunk was just ridiculous. He got hit in the face and the arm and they didn't call a foul?

    Now this is not an excuse for Paul's inability to earn trips to the line. He's not using his body as well as he should and if he makes an effort to get to the line he will. With that said, it happens at least twice a night when he gets blatantly fouled and there is no call. It's as is if the refs don't recognize him as a volume scorer so he hasn't earned the calls. I don't get it.

    The next play down the court he got fouled again and Paul through his hands in the air. He was just in shock.

    Why can't he get a call?
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    It is possible that they just want to be cautious with Hill and decided to let him return in the second game of a back to back at home against the Bucks in stead of trying to steal a road game against the Celtics and risk Hill being a bit stiff less than 24 hours later. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    PG somehow has to reconcile his ridiculous home - road shooting discrepancy. Road PG is a shadow of home PG simply due to abysmal shooting.
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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    I said this in a couple other threads, and I'll go ahead and say it here. Garnett, Bass, and Sullinger et al really D-ed up West.

    I re-watched the game. He converted a good chunk of his decent to good looks, but he really didn't get that many totally clean ones. Bass was really contesting his off - blance, fadeaway stuff well.

    He had what appeared to be some decent left block looks where he created space with a couple bounces and/or a spin. But even in those cases, a help defender came over to challenge the shots, which he missed pretty badly. Just enough interference to make him uncomfortable, to change his release point, etc.

    Think a lot of his being "off" was a product of their defensive focus throughout and, in some cases, his inability to lift in traffic under the hoop.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Vogel did the same thing with Tyler the other night too. He was hot and then after halftime Vogel didn't play him till the 4th quarter.

    Vogel just let's guys sit too long and then when they come back in they've usually gone cold. I like Vogel as a coach, but his substitutions are his achilles heel right now.

    More OJ please! Less Green.

    Pacers need to stop being patient and find a better backup pg.
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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Yep - stop being patient about pg situation and stop being patient with Green. Although at this point, it's tough to find anybody else to give Green's minutes to. I'm okay with Young and Johnson as options though.
    Green's not even done squat in his alleged strong suit, shooting the 3.

    Some have claimed he's decent on D, but I haven't seen much of note there either, at least on any consistent basis. Last night he had to check Terry for a stretch and gave up wide open shot after wide open shot. Fortunately Terry wasn't particularly hot or the route would have been even worse. He got totally abused by Pierce in the post. That sequence was comically bad defense. Looked like a drowning man hanging on for dear life.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Tyler may of scored the ball well last night but he played really bad IMO. I mean he tried and played out of control energy like he always does and that's more than most the team did last night so you cant really be mad. But he made so many plays in the first half that made me want to break my TV. I really don't blame Vogel, Tyler would frustrate the **** out of me if I was coaching him so many mental errors.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    pretty sure KG was on Hibbert whenever he was in and not on West, irritated the living hell out of me what that man gets away with defending with two hands on Roy all the time, elbows to the neck and so on and so on.

    To say that Roy should play the enforcer is silly, that's Tyler's job, you wanna risk losing Hibbert to a suspension like the stupid KG is getting ? no thanks.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    All I have to say about that game is



    Nothing to see here. Move on.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    To say that Roy should play the enforcer is silly, that's Tyler's job, you wanna risk losing Hibbert to a suspension like the stupid KG is getting ? no thanks.
    I want to preface this by saying that being an enforcer in today's NBA doesn't require an extreme amount of physicality. But someone needs to seriously get in KG's face after cheap shots like these. This doesn't require punches and won't garner a major suspension of any type. Just stand tall, watch KG react and backpedal like Larry Sanders, and take your T like a man. Tyler has said before that he would defend any one of his teammates (when defending claims that he was protecting his brother against Cleveland). Someone has to be there for him as well.

    Danny is usually pretty good about this. There were a few times he tried to start something with Lebron in the playoffs that were completely uncalled for, but I never knew I would miss Granger so bad, in so many aspects of the game. He can come back and just give us 15 a game and I will be on cloud nine.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    I've got to correct you on the bench though, When the Celtics went on their run, according to the play by play the majority of the time the starters were in. At the 7:35 mark in the second quarter, with Boston only up two, all the starters came in. The only sub to come in again in the quarter was Hans, when the Pacers were down by 15. (Let's not blame the bench for more problems than they already cause. )

    Games like this happen. It was only a matter of time before teams started keying on George. He's going to have to adjust to that.
    Last edited by Sookie; 01-05-2013 at 12:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • Gerald Green’s contract makes me cry a little every day, not the amount but the length. I think this guy is who he is & honestly I would like something else.



    • That Sullinger kid is a good rebounder. This is my first time seeing him but he seems to have a really good grasp on leverage, strength and positioning. He got some cheap fouls and he seems under sized but there is some real potential there.

    The problem with Green and Mahinmi's contracts were that Walsh gave them full guaanteed contracts instead of contracts with TO/team options to protect the team from a player not performing during the contract.

    I stated a few days ago I felt Sullinger at #21 was a far better pick than Thomas Robinson at #5. I feel Boston got a nice player out of the latter 1/3 of the draft, especially with the Celtics getting old.

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    Pacers fan in FL Deadshot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Boston has done real well with their later picks in the last couple of years. I think over time Fab Melo at 22 will be a decent pick as well. And imagine if they hadn't traded Marshon Brooks for JaJuan Johnson. At least it netted them another 2nd round pick in 2014.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Yesterday's stat lines of most of our players don't look that differently from the ones against the Wizards et all. Biggest difference in those games was that West or George usually picked us up and carried us to the victory despite underwhelming performances of the rest.

    Augustin looked bad on defense. Let Rondo shoot for God's sake, but make it a little harder for him to slash to the basket. That is give him some space and shut the driving lane instead.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Yep - stop being patient about pg situation and stop being patient with Green. Although at this point, it's tough to find anybody else to give Green's minutes to. I'm okay with Young and Johnson as options though.
    Green's not even done squat in his alleged strong suit, shooting the 3.
    ...Which is why the wise thing to do would be to stick with him. He's well below his career averages; the numbers will rise. On a technical note, he hasn't been bending his knees at all when shooting. As a consequence he hits the back of the rim a lot.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Games like this happen. It was only a matter of time before teams started keying on George. He's going to have to adjust to that.
    +1

    To add on to this , I want to make a prediction for the game tonight vs the Bucks...

    George is going to go off and quite possibly have himself a career/season high game tonight scoring in the mid to high 30's...

    Also I predict a W , after that dismal excuse for a basketball game that was played at Boston last night...
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Surprised you didn't comment on Paul's early score attempts. The dunk was just ridiculous. He got hit in the face and the arm and they didn't call a foul?

    Now this is not an excuse for Paul's inability to earn trips to the line. He's not using his body as well as he should and if he makes an effort to get to the line he will. With that said, it happens at least twice a night when he gets blatantly fouled and there is no call. It's as is if the refs don't recognize him as a volume scorer so he hasn't earned the calls. I don't get it.

    The next play down the court he got fouled again and Paul through his hands in the air. He was just in shock.

    Why can't he get a call?
    I thought the Celtics were allowed to play overly physical all night which helped their defense quite a bit. The PG "missed dunk" was a prime example of a call that he gets if the game is in Indy, or with just a different crew perhaps. A few extra fouls on plays like that would slow down Boston's aggressiveness and open things up for the Pacers. As it was you had KG getting tossed (and was at 5 fouls anyway) and Sully fouling out, with Bass at 4.

    But I'm with Peck on Roy. To me this was by far Roy's worst game because the Pacers badly needed him to just be big and physical inside to make Boston pay for their aggression on West/Paul. As hard and physical as they went at West and Paul, Roy should have been free to just dominate over them. Instead you get 6 shots, and that's not Paul and West ball hogging because you can see plenty of times they'd love to get the ball to him. But if you can't hold a spot on the floor or back people off or just shoot over them, then your teammates aren't going to be able to help you very much.

    How many times did we see West put a move on KG or Bass, drive to the rim only to be met by 1-2 more Celtics who had no concerns that any player behind them was going to beat them. Last year's version of Roy could have gone for 30 in this game, or been on pace until Boston was forced to change strategy.

    But with Hill and Danny out and Roy playing like he is, teams are just going to double the heck out of West and Paul and come help with reckless abandon because the Pacers have no means of making them pay for it.





    I don't even want to talk about DJ. If I was Vogel he would have left the game right after the behind the back pass to a Celtic on a simple break. There is no excuse in the world and for me it was a very telling play on where his head is at (which explains the defensive effort too).

  28. #19
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    Whats the status on Paul Georges trade value, is it still the highest it ever will be?

  29. #20
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: The Boston Massacre..

    There were a ton of calls and non-calls early on that went Boston's way, and our players and coach let each and every one of them affect their play and attitude.

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