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Thread: Building my new PC - help needed!

  1. #51
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    I'm researching how to update BIOS, and the risks make me weary.

  2. #52
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    I believe at least one BIOS and mobo manufacturer had a BIOS update that could be performed from Win. But it's been quite a while since I updated a system's BIOS.

    The old fashioned way was to boot to a floppy.... Then the process was fairly automated. I doubt much as changed except the expectation of booting to a floppy.

    I've never seen a mobo manufacturer who didn't explain the process very well in their Readme file that is either a sep dl or included in the zip file in the their downloads section.
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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    I've updated many and never had a problem. Just make sure you have the proper file for your mobo. Most of them do some safety checks.

    I wouldn't update my BIOS during a storm where there's fear of the power going off unless I was on a UPS.

    And I wouldn't update my BIOS unless I was having a problem and knew or thought it could fix it. You would be in the ' try it ' category right now.
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  6. #54
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Maybe the OS install and subsequent hang were just coincidences?

    Anyway, you can load "failsafe" settings in BIOS can't you? Have you tried that?
    Failsafe settings?

  7. #55
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    And, again, the risk with BIOS is screwing up the motherboard, but it never jeopardizes the SDD and it's OS, right?

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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Yes, this won't FUBAR the drive or OS, and Bball said, as long as you don't do it during a storm, you should be safe. The CD that came with the board should have an application that you can run in Windows that will do the update for you, because the Windows BIOS applications have become commonplace. I know my MSI board has one, I can't imagine that Asus wouldn't.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Failsafe settings?
    default settings; factory settings.

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  11. #58
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwolf View Post
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    default settings; factory settings.
    Yes... Typically they are conservative settings...

    And I just had a flashback... Didn't you say you ended up overclocking slightly? I'd not do that until I was booting OK and sure the OS was stable. It's probably not that but you can never be sure with overclocking until everything else is stable.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  12. #59
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Regarding the overclocking, it's being done essentially automatically (I only changed one single setting in the UEFI/BIOS) by the motherboard (which handles all of the details so a layman like me doesn't go in and screw anything up), which is a model designed for enthusiasts/overclockers, and it's barely upping the speed of a CPU and a specific model of RAM known for and/or designed for overclocking in the first place, and in any case it's barely upping their abilities, so while I freely admit this is new territory for me, it doesn't strike me as a real threat (hopefully I'm not wrong about that).

    Regarding updating the UEFI/BIOS of the board, I may still do it, but to be honest I'm kind of scared of the risk right now. I'm sure it's normally no problem, it's just that other than this annoyance at boot, the PC is otherwise entirely what I expect, and I'm very very happy with it in that regard, so I'm feeling like the potential risk may not outweigh the potential reward with regards to trying to update the UEFI/BIOS. I will add that from the research I've done thus far, if I do decide to try the update, people recommend setting the motherboard back to where nothing is overclocked before doing so, and that's advice I will definitely follow if and when.

    And in any case, I wouldn't call this problem an 'instability'; it consistently does this every time, and once Windows loads it does so quickly with no issues, and the OS itself runs flawlessly thus far. So I suspect it might just be a setting issue or configuration (soft or hardware) issue. Hopefully it is and it's something relatively simple to fix that I just haven't discovered yet.

    I still would like to solve this, but I'd prefer to explore other options/possibilities besides updating the BIOS for the time being.

  13. #60
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    On a completely different note, I was struggling earlier to get my old HP Laserjet 4050 N to be detected/installed on Windows 8. I was able to get it going on my Windows 7 PC, but this time I'm having a tougher time, and when I tried to manually specify which printer I was using using the wizard, it didn't list my model for some reason.

    I then tried the universal driver or whatnot from HP's website, but it doesn't seem to work for me, either.

    To make it tougher, the printer uses an old parallel port that I had to buy a USB adapter for when I first got it for my work. So the first and only thing Win8 detected was the USB adapter itself, rather than the printer sitting on the other end of the adapter. Not sure what I should try next on that front. Maybe install a listed model that looks as close as possible to my model and see if it works?

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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Regarding the overclocking, it's being done essentially automatically (I only changed one single setting in the UEFI/BIOS) by the motherboard (which handles all of the details so a layman like me doesn't go in and screw anything up), which is a model designed for enthusiasts/overclockers, and it's barely upping the speed of a CPU and a specific model of RAM known for and/or designed for overclocking in the first place, so while I freely admit this is new territory for me, it doesn't strike me as a real threat (hopefully I'm not wrong about that).

    Regarding updating the UEFI/BIOS of the board, I may still do it, but to be honest I'm kind of scared of the risk right now. I'm sure it's normally no problem, it's just that other than this annoyance at boot, the PC is otherwise entirely what I expect, and I'm very very happy with it in that regard, so I'm feeling like the potential risk may not outweigh the potential reward with regards to trying to update the UEFI/BIOS. I will add that from the research I've done thus far, if I do decide to try the update, people recommend setting the motherboard back to where nothing is overclocked before doing so, and that's advice I will definitely follow if and when.

    And in any case, I wouldn't call this problem an 'instability'; it consistently does this every time, and once Windows loads it does so quickly with no issues, and the OS itself runs flawlessly thus far. So I suspect it might just be a setting issue or configuration (soft or hardware) issue. Hopefully it is and it's something relatively simple to fix that I just haven't discovered yet.

    I still would like to solve this, but I'd prefer to explore other options/possibilities besides updating the BIOS for the time being.
    I wonder if its just your memory self test taking forever. Go into BIOS, look under boot and see if "Full Screen Logo" is set to enabled. I'd turn that off and see what happens in the background.

    http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...74_P8Z77-V.pdf See page 103 for what I'm talking about.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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  15. #62
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Won't that just show me a black screen for 2 minutes instead of the logo for 2 minutes? Or will it show what it's actually trying to do with text?

  16. #63
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    It should show you 'stuff' if you turn off the screen... That might show you what is taking a while which would then be your clue to what needs to be 'fixed'.

    I'd still turn off/roll back any and all overclocking until I was booting fine.

    FWIW, and you know this, but your boot up time isn't really 'fast' if there is a 2min hang involved in the process. There's an answer... somewhere... You just need to find it. Sometimes it's hard to find that answer without a lot of back and forth. Especially with a first time builder.

    One piece of advice I can give you is if someone here or some other forum has some advice or something to try, try it exactly how they say. Don't skip steps or discard the advice because you can't see the point in it. I know from personal experience there have been times when I've told someone exactly what they needed to do to fix an issue and they reported back 'it didn't work'. Then after that lots of back and forth and much time and thought it turned out they skipped some steps that didn't seem to matter to them because _____insert non-valid reason here_____.

    I wish I could be more help but I haven't built a system in a while. ...But I've haven't purchased an off the shelf desktop since about '94 or '95. And that was the last one. Every desktop since then has been a custom build. So I can certainly cheer your efforts from the sidelines here.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  18. #64
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    One piece of advice I can give you is if someone here or some other forum has some advice or something to try, try it exactly how they say. Don't skip steps or discard the advice because you can't see the point in it. I know from personal experience there have been times when I've told someone exactly what they needed to do to fix an issue and they reported back 'it didn't work'. Then after that lots of back and forth and much time and thought it turned out they skipped some steps that didn't seem to matter to them because _____insert non-valid reason here_____.
    I wish I could thank this 1000 times. Reminds me when I was training a tech at a certain place that starts with an N and ends with an A and is in the spotlight primarily in March. He came to me one day and said he needed to reimage a machine because an in house written application wasn't working. I try to get him to tell me what is happening, he describes the issue. Being the tech who wrote the documentation on how to fix the exact issue, I know immediately what was happening.

    Me: "Did you update Java?"
    Him: "We need to reimage the machine."
    Me. "But did you update Java yet?
    Him: "No, we need to reimage the machine?"
    Me: "Did you even try to update Java?"
    Him: "No, we need to reimage the machine?"
    Me: "Take me to the machine."

    He takes me to the machine, I update Java, vio-la! the application magically works and I save him the trouble of rebuilding the PC and the user the inconvenience of needing a loaner laptop.

    Did I mention I was basically training one of my replacements?

    Needless to say he lasted about 60 days after I had moved on to my next site location.... because he materialized as one of the tech support phone people at THAT LOCATION that we absolutely HATED.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

  19. #65
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Fair enough. I don't want to be "that guy". I'll turn off the overclocking that I needed to get my RAM up to its proper 1600 setting as soon as I next try to troubleshoot this boot issue. I might take a look tonight after work.

  20. #66
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Actually I think I might check this at halftime.

  21. #67
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Restarting just now, I'm noticing that my mouse and keyboard, both USB, do not light up for about a minute or so but they do, in fact, light up BEFORE the initial 'stuck' screen disappears, not AFTER like I originally thought.

    Also, I just had an idea: when I removed the excess SATA cable that was meant for my hard disk drive that isn't here yet, I left the solid-state drive plugged in to the second SATA 6 Gbps port, not the first port. You would think it wouldn't matter, but do you suppose if I switch that cable from the second port to the first port instead that it might help?

  22. #68
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    Well, that wasn't what I expected.

    I turned the overclock setting back to its original default, and then I went over and disabled "Full Screen Logo".

    It was nothing but black screen for the minute or two it usually freezes on that logo screen, THEN it showed what it hid before; the text status information/whatnot, that lasted all of 5 seconds, then Windows booted up.

    I took video of this boot, but I'll spare you staring at black for so long and just type up what it said in print:

    "
    American Megatrends (with its triforce-looking logo to the left)
    AMIBIOS (C) 2012 American Megatrends, Inc.

    ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE ACPI BIOS Revision 1015
    CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz
    Speed: 3430MHz

    Total Memory: 16384MB (DDR3-1333)

    USB Devices total: 1 Drive, 1 Keyboard, 1 Mouse, 2 Hubs
    USB Drive #0: WD Ext HDD 1021 2021

    Detected ATA/ATAPI Devices. . .
    SATA Port2: Samsung SSD 840 PRO Seri
    SATA Port5: ASUS BW-12B1ST
    "
    I hadn't mentioned the external drive earlier, but that was plugged in after this problem boot problem had already surfaced.

    As far as I can recall, this long boot started immediately after Win8 was installed; it didn't hang like that when I was still trying to install the OS. But then why would an OS installation effect something that happens BEFORE the OS boots?

    So what do we make of this? Does this mean it's taking a long time before/during/or just after the POST?

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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I left the solid-state drive plugged in to the second SATA 6 Gbps port, not the first port. You would think it wouldn't matter, but do you suppose if I switch that cable from the second port to the first port instead that it might help?
    It wouldn't hurt.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

  24. #70
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    As far as I can recall, this long boot started immediately after Win8 was installed; it didn't hang like that when I was still trying to install the OS. But then why would an OS installation effect something that happens BEFORE the OS boots?
    I would imagine Windows 8 actually DOES write to the BIOS...

    I'd make sure I have all the latest drivers/patches/updates from the mobo website (if you haven't already done that) and I would update the BIOS.

    I'm leaning towards an issue between your current BIOS and Win 8 based on what you've said so far.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  25. #71
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    It's just that I'm spooked that if I update my BIOS it's somehow going to go wrong or otherwise screw things up. Doesn't help that I don't believe I ever had to update my BIOS on any of my older PC's, either.

    Is there anything I can know to talk me off of this ledge? I'm willing to do it in theory, but the concept of this potentially bricking my motherboard is slightly terrifying...

    Also, from what I can tell, ASUS does have a way to update BIOS from within Windows... but it doesn't work in 64 bit Windows for some reason. Bummer.

    Maybe I just need a more detailed understanding of how this is going to work and what snags I should expect to deal with before the PC is back to loading up Windows 8 again (whether it fixes the slowness or not). I just want to feel more confident that I can get it back to loading the OS again in any scenario that doesn't involve power failure mid-update or something catastrophic like that. I need to know what to generally expect.

  26. #72
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    It's scaring you way more than it scares me... but then it's not my computer

    The odds of you bricking your motherboard are fairly remote. If you doublecheck and triple check that you are downloading the proper BIOS file for your motherboard the odds get even more remote. If you have a UPS the odds are even more remote (no worries about power failures). If you read the prompts on the screen and think before you act it will even be more remote.

    Then if something does go wrong the most likely problem will be caught by the loader program and inform you of that fact before anything actually happens (like you're trying to load an older BIOS or checksums don't match).

    I guess it should go without a saying to download a manufacturer BIOS update and not some hacker's version from a forum (although I've used some hacker's BIOS/firmware updates in the past and was very pleased with the results... but that is another discussion).

    And if you would somehow manage to screw something up there's still a good chance a "clear CMOS" routine will get you back going. That is involves either temporarily removing the battery from the mobo or a jumper setting/removal (check your manual for info).

    And if you do somehow manage to do the nearly impossible and brick your motherboard even though you followed all the rules and info, one word: warranty. Just tell them the motherboard died, end of story.

    But that's so far down the list of potential things to happen that I would barely think about it at all. I'd be more worried that it just won't fix the problem... but even then I'd be happy to know I had the latest BIOS installed now.

    Plus, there's always the fact that if you need a BIOS upgrade, then you need a BIOS upgrade. Of course we're not sure that is in fact your issue but if it turns out it is then this is the only fix you'll likely find for it.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  28. #73
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    I think I am looking at the right mobo here:
    http://support.asus.com/download.asp...CFmLeMZdeMER8x

    Have you downloaded and installed all the latest updates? There are several...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  29. #74
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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Yes, that's my motherboard (ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe). No, I haven't downloaded/installed any of that. I'd seen that, but I was only paying attention to BIOS. I guess I have tunnel vision with motherboards and only considered BIOS with regards to what might get an update.

    So regarding the other things that are available there, which ones do you recommend I download and install, first of all? Secondly, should they be able to run within Windows (meaning I can execute those updates while within Windows 8)?

    Thanks once again.

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    Default Re: Building my new PC - help needed!

    Definitely install the chipset drivers for sure. And yes, the installers will run inside Windows, but I've noticed a couple of BIOS updates that specifically mention Windows 8 compatibility improvements beyond the version currently installed. I got a stupid idea for updating the BIOS, do you have a copy of Windows XP and an old hard drive laying around?
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

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