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Thread: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

  1. #1

    Default Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/0...=iref:nbahpt6f

    Wow. Like the guy says, it probably has more to do with poor bench play, but still pretty cool.

    Oh and at the bottom of the list is Ian Mahinmi :x

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    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    I've never liked the +/- stat...never really meant anything....I guess this thread proves it!!
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I've never liked the +/- stat...never really meant anything....I guess this thread proves it!!
    i agree the +/- stat is one of the most overrated stats out there. however, if anything, it helps to demonstrate lance's efficient play this year. i said in an earlier post how lance has really improved his game with his displayed intelligence. i like the fact that he frequently challenges defenses by attacking the rim and how he has really shown some smarts at recognizing when he has nothing and instead kicks it back out when someone like green would probably hoist up a bad shot.
    lance has shown the ability to recognize the right times to attack and when to kick it back out. this is something i didn't know if i would ever see from him.
    lance has proven he can be successful at this level in my book and he seems to have his attitude in the right place.
    keep up the good work lance!

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    it is good for units folks.. just hard to tell anything from a single player
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    it is good for units folks.. just hard to tell anything from a single player
    It's also good for evidence to use while briefly analyzing single games. But you have to know the context for it to work w/ single players.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Everyone hates on the +/- stat, but it can certainly be useful. For example, in the series loss to Miami the Pacers starters had an incredible +/-, highlighting the fact that Indiana's struggle came primarily because the bench couldn't match up with Lebron playing 48 minutes a night. Starters against starters, Indy was very good. The bench, not so much.

    Like with all stats, it's about the proper application of the stat.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Everyone hates on the +/- stat, but it can certainly be useful. For example, in the series loss to Miami the Pacers starters had an incredible +/-, highlighting the fact that Indiana's struggle came primarily because the bench couldn't match up with Lebron playing 48 minutes a night. Starters against starters, Indy was very good. The bench, not so much.

    Like with all stats, it's about the proper application of the stat.
    With +/- the proper use of it is with units, and extreme cases.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Lance is rapidly becoming one of our top players, as well as one of the top prospects in the NBA. Easily the steal of the entire 2010 draft when you consider we got him in the second round. Along with Paul George, the 2010 draft will go down in history as the best draft in Pacers history. Thank you Larry!!!!
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Here is a link to the 2010 draft:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Draft

    All I have to say is LOL at some of these guys picked before Lance. Some of these GM's should have lost their jobs passing up on Born Ready.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I've never liked the +/- stat...never really meant anything....I guess this thread proves it!!
    Yeah. And Murph having the lowest. We all know he was the team's cornerstone.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    The +/- stat is what it is, just like every other stat. It tells you whether the team increased or decreased the lead while a player was out there. Problems come when you try to interpret too much from it. (just like every other stat)

    I think, unfortunately, this is more of an indication of our poor bench being that Lance rarely plays with them. Our starters are also second in the league in +/-.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    yesterdays game......

    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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  22. #13

    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    The +/- stat does not really describe star players well. But it tells you something about the role players.

    It just shows that Lance isn't detrimental to the starters, or to the team as a whole, and contributes positively when he's playing. And while the +/- stat alone can't really be a solid evidence as it is a team stat, I think all of us here who have seen the games really proves that Lance has been a plus factor so far especially in the absence of Granger. It shows that he plays within the flow for the most part, and with him as your main SG he does not look like a weakness that opposing teams capitalize on in terms of match-ups.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Everyone hates on the +/- stat, but it can certainly be useful. For example, in the series loss to Miami the Pacers starters had an incredible +/-, highlighting the fact that Indiana's struggle came primarily because the bench couldn't match up with Lebron playing 48 minutes a night. Starters against starters, Indy was very good. The bench, not so much.

    Like with all stats, it's about the proper application of the stat.
    Did you really need that statistic to illustrate how bench the bad was? Seemed pretty obvious.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Here is a link to the 2010 draft:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Draft

    All I have to say is LOL at some of these guys picked before Lance. Some of these GM's should have lost their jobs passing up on Born Ready.
    Well, I wouldn't go as far as that, seeing how Lance did basically nothing for 2 years. You win some/lose some, and it sure seems at this point the Pacers may have struck gold.


    What is hilarious is that Rautins went before him. Hell, that Rautins was drafted at all is hilarious.

    Bledsoe went 18, which is too low. And Crawford at 27 is probably too low, given his scoring prowess. Not that I'd want him, Mr. Chucks 'A Lot.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Did you really need that statistic to illustrate how bench the bad was? Seemed pretty obvious.
    Eh, only when the typical analysis was "YOU NEEDZ A SUSPERSTARZ TO COMPETEZ WITH LEBROMGHZ AND WADEXZ!". Actually, no, all you needed was a competent bench.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/0...=iref:nbahpt6f

    Wow. Like the guy says, it probably has more to do with poor bench play, but still pretty cool.

    Oh and at the bottom of the list is Ian Mahinmi :x
    This is the worst statistic in all of sports and it doesn't mean a damn thing.....

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Well, I wouldn't go as far as that, seeing how Lance did basically nothing for 2 years. You win some/lose some, and it sure seems at this point the Pacers may have struck gold.


    What is hilarious is that Rautins went before him. Hell, that Rautins was drafted at all is hilarious.

    Bledsoe went 18, which is too low. And Crawford at 27 is probably too low, given his scoring prowess. Not that I'd want him, Mr. Chucks 'A Lot.
    There's a place for chuckers. We need a guy like Crawford on our bench.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    This is the worst statistic in all of sports and it doesn't mean a damn thing.....
    No, it's just easy to misuse. It's the same with any stat, you have to use other evidence to back it up.

    For example, Rajon Rondo averages 3.6 TOPG. Dwight Howard is behind at 3.2 TOPG. Does this mean that Rondo is more TO prone than Howard? If you're looking at only turnovers, you say yes. When in reality the answer is no because of their respective roles on their teams.

    So because it gives you a flawed result if you don't consider other stats or supporting evidence, is TOPG also a useless stat that doesn't mean a damn thing?

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    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Recently, the plus/minus stat has had a pretty strong plus/minus, though it's probably because it gets to be used with points per possession and rebounding rate.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    Even if he develops into a solid rotational player (which he is), it'll be a win for the Pacers' brass coming from a second round pick. The rest is gravy.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    I am a bit intrigued and a bit concerned about the effect of replacing Lance with Granger. Lance has been a. pretty important lubricant for the offense this year.

    (Insert obligatory tree of penetration joke here.)
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  34. #23

    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    I am confused here.
    Is +/- count the score difference of the object team and the opposing team?
    But here it count the score difference of the player on and off the court.
    Is there two different +/- measurement?

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    There are two versions that are popular.

    1) Just the team's score when you are on the court, not in totals but in difference vs the other team. You come in with the team down 2-10 and leave with the score 10-10 then you get a +8. Are you the reason the team made up those 8 points? Hard to say. But over time if it keeps happening then you have to start thinking that there is something about your playing that puts the team in a good place to outscore the other team.

    2) Another version looks both at your raw +/- and the +/- for when you are NOT on the court. Then the two are compared. This is meant to suggest that your +/- might just be created by the players you play with and that regardless of your time on the court the team will always put up a positive +/- (or negative if the team is bad). In this way you might be in the positive, but to a lesser amount than the team would be if you weren't playing. So you start and the team goes up 10-4, you get a +6 RAW. Then you sit for the rest of the quarter and the score ends up 20-6 (10-2 while you sat). So the +/- with you out was +8 RAW, and this makes your on/off court +/- have a value of -2.


    Typically with big impact players they will have an on-court positive and an off-court negative because the team struggles without them out there.


    For groups of players you do the same thing. 5 man groups are less interesting than sub-groups like 2-3 key players on the court together. Perhaps Wade is okay, Lebron is okay, but when both are playing the team's +/- goes through the roof. This tells the coach that the key is having them working together rather than just having their generic individual talents. In other words the whole is greater than the sum of the parts due to quality interaction.

  36. #25
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson has the 2nd Highest +/- in the NBA

    By the way, one of the best sites for +/- tracking in PopcornMachine.net

    Here is the Indy/MIL game flow
    http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/ga...05&game=MILIND

    To understand it go to the home page and then click on the Help link. They explain in detail what all of the numbers mean. But fundamentally you get to see a visual representation of who was on or off the court at any given time and how the team did. To me this shows the power of the +/- better than anything.

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