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Thread: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    They have similar defensive ratings, similar defensive rebounding percentages, similar stealing %. But Roy has a much higher block %, offensive rebounding %, and despite his offensive ineptitude doesn't have a terrible PER comparted to Gasol. They both anchor high quality defenses, but the Pacers do it by forcing a low FG% while the Grizzlies do it by creating a lot of turnovers.

    Gasol is a good defender, but this season Hibbert has been a phenomenal defender.
    Oh, joy of joys. It's gone from bad to worse.

    Please refer to the offensive win shares in your spreadsheet. Hibbert, at -0.5, is the last man on the list. Heck, Mahinmi is even a little above him at -0.1. But to think that your starting center is actually a distraction from winning on the offensive end, that just sucks.
    Last edited by beast23; 01-04-2013 at 06:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The head coach is coaching the team as a whole, and assistants work with individual players. Vogel's not the question here, it would be whether Dan Burke or Jim Boylen are effective at coaching big men. I don't know that they are, I don't know that they're not. I have no information either way. But it's not a question of Vogel himself, which you know very well, Buck.


    We do have a wing coach. His name is Brian Shaw.

    I thought, maybe I'm wrong, that Billy Keller was the shooting coach.

    What did the big/tall coach the Pacers have in JOB's last year do? I believe his last name started with a V? It seems like he wasn't re-hired the following year under Vogel.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    AGAIN, Hibbert got paid for what he accomplished last season. Compare that with this season, and yes he's OVERPAID.


    I'm glad you asked about Marc Gasol!! Early last season I stated Gasol was better than Hibbert, and I'd trade Hibbert for Gasol. You'd have thought I was a baby, puppy, and kitten killer by many for even suggesting such an outlandish thing.

    Gasol

    10-11 season
    11.7/7/2.5
    Gets max contract for those #'s.

    11-12 1st year of max contract
    14.6/ 9/ 4
    Please note the "increase in production" of 3 pts, 2 rebs, and 1.5 Ast per game after getting a max contract.

    12-13 season
    14.4/ 7.5/ 4 at 48% FG and 87% FT

    Throw in the fact Gasol is a tougher player and the answer to your question of is Gasol an overpaid player is an overwhelming NO!!! He's worth what he's being paid.
    So, you're saying that 14.5 / 7.5 are worth a max contract. Right? Isn't is a bit far from the 20 / 12 mark you claimed earlier?

    PS: Gasol being a "tougher" player stems from what exactly? Your perception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hibbert

    11-12 season
    12.8/8.8/1.7 at 49.7% FG and 71% FT.
    Stats Hibbert got MAX contract.

    12-13 1st year of MAX contract.
    9.6/8/1.7 at 40% FG and 64% FT.

    Down 3 pts in scoring, almost 1 rebound, almost 10% in FG%, and 7% in FT%. This doesn't shout MAX player, it shouts OVERPAID!
    Seems like someone forgot to post Hibbert's 2.9 Blocks per Game

    I love how all this argument that Hibbert is "overpaid" and "soft" completely fails to take his rim protection into consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hibbert is not as strong physically or mentally as Gasol who deserves the MAX contract. Barkley a week or so ago on tv said Gasol was the 2nd best center in the NBA not Hibbert.
    Gasol has a pretty good argument for 2nd best Center at the moment. Still, in the game against Hibbert he only contributed 13 points, 2 rebounds and 1 block and was a non-factor for most of the second half

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Edit: The sad thing is that for Bird's 1st 2 years he scouted the Euro players, and in the 2007 draft Bird traded Orlando for the 39th pick and drafted Stanko instead of drafting Marc Gasol who was drafted at #48 by the Lakers.
    That makes a lot of sense. Stanko was a much more skilled player than Marc Gasol back then. In fact, Marc Gasol wasn't anything special when he played in Europe. Memphis made him the player that he is at the moment.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Hibbert's been good playing help D, but he's getting outplayed by his own man most nights. check out this site and compare them... http://www.mysynergysports.com/?lid=corpSite

    Gasol's better at defending his man, and Hibbert's a better rim protector. They're probably a wash on the defensive end honestly,



    but when you factor in Gasol's able to play 7 more minutes than Hibs, I'd have to give him the edge.

    Thanks for pointing out the MPG played. I just forgot to put it in the post after writing it down.

    This year Hibbert 28:30 and Gasol 35:06. Gasol 36:30 last year to Hibbert's 29:48. Hibbert doesn't have the strength to play the type minutes Gasol does, which means you have to have a good b/u center for the 18-20 minutes Hibbert doesn't play. With Hibbert only playing 28-29 minutes, it makes it necessary the other bigs produce. When DWest plays the 5 then whoever replaces Dwest at PF has to produce, or Ian has to give production when replacing Hibbert. If both Hibbert and DWest is out of the game at the same time, it causes a problem. I like Hibbert as a person, but his limitations and production has hurt the Pacers this season. Hibbert's production doesn't warrant a Max contract. The only person who can make Hibbert's play and production warrant his Max contract is Hibbert himself. It's time for him to pull himself up by his bootstraps and elevate his game.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I mean is the center position that specialized that only a very select few can proplerly coach the position.
    Yes. I definitely believe that it's the hardest and most specialized position to play properly.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Oh please Nuntius, you watched that game, at one point Gasol's face fouled Roy's elbow and foul trouble is the only thing that stopped him from beating us down -- anyone who watched that game saw it. He was scoring at will inside while Randolph was destroying our entire front line on the boards. No part of that win said Roy did anything good inside, he was no enforcer, no rim protector, and he certainly didn't do anything to suggest he was an equivalent player as you keep shouting, despite the fact that anyone with eyes disagrees.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hibbert doesn't have the strength to play the type minutes Gasol does
    It's a matter of endurance. Not a matter of strength. Roy has athlete-induced asthma and that's why he cannot play for prolonged stretches most of the night.

    Disclaimer: I'm not using this as an "excuse". I'm just setting the record straight.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Oh please Nuntius, you watched that game, at one point Gasol's face fouled Roy's elbow and foul trouble is the only thing that stopped him from beating us down -- anyone who watched that game saw it. He was scoring at will inside while Randolph was destroying our entire front line on the boards. No part of that win said Roy did anything good inside, he was no enforcer, no rim protector, and he certainly didn't do anything to suggest he was an equivalent player as you keep shouting, despite the fact that anyone with eyes disagrees.
    Yes, I watched the game. Roy made two strong moves that forced Gasol to foul him in the second half. The fouls were legit and Hibbert drew them.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    he was no enforcer, no rim protector
    So, 4 blocks scream "no rim protector"? Gotcha.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    How many points did they score in the paint again? Aren't you on the contingent of guys here who say good defense isn't really about blocks and steals? They crushed us in the paint. 4 blocks certainly isn't a bad thing, but its not really amazing if they took 80 shots inside (probably hyperbole) and scored nearly all their points in the paint... lots of chances to get blocks in that kind of setting, and doesn't mean much if we don't get the ball back afterward. No, the Roy elbow to Gasol's face foul was not legit, though I'll certainly take it as a Pacer fan, if the same thing reversed everyone on this board would be livid.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    How many points did they score in the paint again? Aren't you on the contingent of guys here who say good defense isn't really about blocks and steals? They crushed us in the paint. 4 blocks certainly isn't a bad thing, but its not really amazing if they took 80 shots inside (probably hyperbole) and scored nearly all their points in the paint... lots of chances to get blocks in that kind of setting, and doesn't mean much if we don't get the ball back afterward. No, the Roy elbow to Gasol's face foul was not legit, though I'll certainly take it as a Pacer fan, if the same thing reversed everyone on this board would be livid.
    Yes, I'm one of those guys that say good defense isn't about blocks and steals. I was just answering to your "no rim protector" comment.

    About the Roy elbow: I honestly didn't see it. You're talking about that shooting foul, right? All I saw was Roy establishing strong position on Marc, turning to his right and Marc having no other way to defend other than pushing. He pushed him and got called for a foul. That's all I saw. But hey, I could be blind. I'll try to re-watch it and see if he elbowed him intentionally. If I see the elbow, I'm going to call an elbow. I call what I see. I only saw a strong play and that's what I called.

    And now about the points in the paint issue. It seems that you missed my post in this post-game thread. Allow me to quote myself:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Let's discuss the points in the paint match up.

    Take a look at ESPN's shot chart -> http://espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=400278172

    If you break it down, you'll see that they hit 6 shots in the paint in each quarter except for the 4th quarter. In the 4th, they only hit 3 shots in the paint (one of them was a Darrel Arthur 17 footer that apparently counts as points in the paint). So, in overall they hit 6 + 6 + 6 + 3 = 21 shots in our paint. That equals 42 points but I'm guessing that the FT awarded after the and-1 count as well, which makes sense.

    Outside of our paint? They hit 1 shot in the first quarter, 2 shots in the second, 3 shots in the third and 2 in the 4th. That's only 8 field goal makes outside of the paint.

    Apparently, ESPN's shot chart has missed some shots since they have credited the Grizzlies with 31 field goal makes while the shot chart only presents 28 but anyway.

    Let's take a look at the missed field goals for the Grizzlies.

    In the paint: They missed 9 shots in the paint in the first quarter. They missed 8 shots in the paint in the second quarter. They missed 2 shots in the paint in the third quarter. They missed 8 shots in the paint in the fourth quarter. In overall, they missed 8 + 8 + 2 + 9 = 27 shots in our paint.

    So, the Grizzlies shot 21 / 48 in our paint.

    Perimeter shots: They missed 4 perimeter shots in the first quarter (I'm not going to count the 44 ft heave). They missed 5 perimeter shots in the second quarter. They missed 6 perimeter shots in the third quarter (I'm not going to count the 39 ft heave either). They missed 7 perimeter shots in the fourth quarter. In overall, they missed 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 22 perimeter shots.

    So, the Grizzlies shot 8 / 30 from the perimeter.

    21 / 48 equals 43.7%.

    8 / 30 equals 26.6%.

    These calculations prove joew8302 right. The Grizzlies are bad in outside shooting. Or they were bad last night, at least. That's on the players, not the coach. However, I believe that the coach could draw some plays that could result in open 3 pointers. 'Cause the only open 3 that I remember from last game was a transition 3.

    Anyway, back on the points in the paint issue. The Grizzles may have scored 44 points in our paint but they needed to attempt 48 shots to do that. So, we held them at under 1 point per shot and that's something to take into consideration.

    However, that 43.7% seems a bit high for our defense. Let's see how Memphis usually shoots inside the paint. Here it is -> http://hoopdata.com/teamshotlocs.aspx

    Memphis is shooting 58.6% at the rim, 41.7% from 3-9 feet and 42% from 10-15 feet.

    So, that 43.7% isn't so bad as Memphis is generally above average in shooting in the paint.
    Yes, they scored 44 points in the paint. But they needed to take 48 shots to do it. And they only scored 6 points in the paint in the final quarter.

    I'll repeat it in bold to make sure that you understand my point:

    The Grizzles attempted 48 shots in our paint and only 30 shots outside of it.

    So, yeah. Congratulations to them that they managed to score 44 points in 48 shots. That's Kobe-esque efficiency.

    Memphis didn't kill us inside. It's that simple. Yes, we beat them on the perimeter but that doesn't mean that we got killed inside.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    I don't have the game on tape, I'd love to be able to throw a clip of it up... end of the day it was just 1 foul, so it's not a huge point either way, it was just one that stood out to me because I burst out laughing when it went our way.

    Still don't think it can be said in anyway that Roy is an equivalent player to Marc, but I feel like we've hashed around it as much as there is to be hashed at this point. No way to prove either side and neither of us are budging. (but I'm right and you're wrong so neener.)

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I don't have the game on tape
    I do. I'll watch it and get back to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Still don't think it can be said in anyway that Roy is an equivalent player to Marc, but I feel like we've hashed around it as much as there is to be hashed at this point. No way to prove either side and neither of us are budging. (but I'm right and you're wrong so neener.)
    You are free to have your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it. That's all.

    But let me ask one final question. Would you find the opinion that Roy and Marc are similar players so ridiculous during last year's playoffs?
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Roy had confidence issues in college, long before JOB came along. In fact, in his One-on-One with Mark Monteith (obligatory reference) interview, he talked about G'town using a two-pronged approach on him coaching-wise - the head coach would beat him up for failures while an assistant would help prop him up mentally. One of the biggest issues with how JOB treated him was that there was no Mike Brown or other assistant who took on the job of being Roy's prop.
    That's all I was saying, honestly. I'm not "blaming" JOB for Roy's hot/cold confidence streaks. I just think that part of his career has "scared" him. And that's not even blaming JOB. Plenty of fantastic coaches have that "tear you down" style, and use it effectively. And I don't know that Roy would have been able to handle that from any of them. That doesn't mean those years don't effect him still. (It doesn't mean they do though either.) Whether those years should effect him is another issue entirely.

    He's clearly a sensitive person who doesn't handle criticism well. (I get the feeling he's one of those people that is harder on themselves than anyone else could possibly be. So criticism just depresses him.)

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    He's clearly a sensitive person who doesn't handle criticism well. (I get the feeling he's one of those people that is harder on themselves than anyone else could possibly be. So criticism just depresses him.)
    He certainly is harder on himself than anyone else. You can see it in his body language when something goes wrong. He gets way down on himself and digs a deeper hole.

    And I believe that this is what makes Roy stronger than most people believe. Not every player has the inner strength and fortitude to call himself out.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    So, you're saying that 14.5 / 7.5 are worth a max contract. Right?


    Isn't is a bit far from the 20 / 12 mark you claimed earlier?

    What are you talking about? I NEVER said I expected Hibbert to be a 20/12 player. I said I NEVER expected him to be a 20/12 player. Then I NEVER expected him to be a 9.6/8/1.7 with almost 3 blocks either after receiving a Max contract.


    I notice you want to throw in the block shots for Hibbert, but you have no comments about this years stats after he signed his Max contract. Nor did you mention how Gasol elevated his production after getting aA Max contract.

    You want to bring up Hibbert's blocks, how many blocks did Gasol have last night? Just in case you don't recall it was "8"! I guess he was a REAL RIM PROTECTOR last night if blocks mean that much.

    We just seem to disagree about whether Hibbert is overpaid, and neither of us is going to change the others opinion. In closing this discussion, I have no doubt Portland has no regrets that the Pacers matched their offer with the way Hibbert is playing after signing his Max contract. They have to be looking at JJ's production vs what his salary is with a broad smile on their faces. He may not be the defensive player Hibbert is, but then they didn't get stuck with a poor producing MAX contract player either.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Personally, I blame the FO more than Roy for the fact that he is a "near MAX" player. We could have given him 5 years, you know. As well as Roy played the last half of a 66 game season, I didn't expect the Pacers to match Portland's in your face offer. Just because the Ps always overpay the object of any other teams's fancy, doesn't mean we have too. Couldn't we have done a sign and trade for other pieces and draft choices with Roy? I hope he returns to all star level play, but won't hold my breath. IMO, Roy is what we are seeing right now. A very good rim protecter, good rebounding, pretty good passing, slow footed, offensively limited center. His money was not his fault and is only overpay if he's not doing the things we knew he can do. Max contracts on the promise of one GOOD season is part of the reason the NBA the sucks most of the time.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    The funny thing is that if we didnt match Portland could have damn near the best team in basketball. They are a rim protector and a bench away(bench you can solve pretty easy with savy moves look at the Clippers cheap bench and moving Hickson to the bench would dramatically improve it.) from being a really legit contender

    I dont know where they get that rim protector from but getting one is a must. Hibbert would make them go from the worst defense in the league to top 15 pretty easy imo they have good wing defenders.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I do. I'll watch it and get back to you.



    You are free to have your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it. That's all.

    But let me ask one final question. Would you find the opinion that Roy and Marc are similar players so ridiculous during last year's playoffs?
    You mean the playoffs where Big Baby Davis bullied Hibbert? Absolutely. Marc Gasol gets bullied by nobody, and certainly not that fat little crybaby.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    What are you talking about? I NEVER said I expected Hibbert to be a 20/12 player. I said I NEVER expected him to be a 20/12 player.
    I know what you said. In fact, here's your exact quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hibbert is overpaid by 4 mil. I believe that relates to being overpaid by 30%. I never felt Hibbert would be a 20/12 guy, but he's not even the player he was last year.
    They way you phrase the above sentence leads one to the conclusion that for someone in order to be paid what Hibbert is he should be a 20 / 12 guy.

    Am I misunderstanding this?

    Honestly, I could be wrong but that's my interpretation of what you write. If I took your words out of context, you are free to correct me

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Then I NEVER expected him to be a 9.6/8/1.7 with almost 3 blocks either after receiving a Max contract.
    I expected him to be better offensively as well. But I didn't expected him to be that good defensively. Hibbert has been a lot worse offensively so far this season but he he has also been a lot better defensively. I don't believe that anyone here would expect that Hibbert would be so bad offensively and so good defensively.

    I'd love it if Hibbert was as good offensively as he was last year but his defense has become vastly underestimated at this point due to his offensive woes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I notice you want to throw in the block shots for Hibbert, but you have no comments about this years stats after he signed his Max contract. Nor did you mention how Gasol elevated his production after getting a Max contract.
    Want the full comparison between the two? Here it is:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...gasolma01.html

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...hibbero01.html

    It is true that Marc Gasol elevated his production after getting a max contract. He signed his "Max" contract after the lock out ended.

    In the 2010 - 2011 season, Marc averaged 11.7 PPG, 7 RPG, 2.5 APG, 0.9 SPG and 1.7 BPG.

    In the 2011 - 2012 season, Marc averaged 14.6 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 3.1 APG, 1 SPG and 1.9 BPG.

    In the 2012 - 2013 season, Marc is averaging 13.9 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 3.8 APG, 1.1 SPG and 1.9 BPG.

    So, he is posting better numbers after he got the "Max" contract.

    But do you want to know what else changed?

    His minutes, his field goal attempts, his USG% and his FG%.

    He averaged 31.9 MPG in the 10 - 11 season. He averaged 36.5 MPG in the 11 - 12 season and he is back at 35.2 MPG in the 12 - 13 season.

    He attempted 8.5 FGAs in the 10 - 11 season. In the 11 - 12 season he averaged 11.4 FGAs and in the 12 - 13 season he is averaging 10.6 FGAs.

    His USG was at 16.9% in the 10 - 11 season. In the 11 - 12 season his USG increased to 19.1% and in the 12 - 13 season he currently is at 18.1%.

    His FG% steadily declined as a result. He shot 52.7% in the 10 - 11 season. In fact, he shot over 50% in all 3 seasons he played before signing the max contract. In the 11 - 12 season he shot 48.2%. In the 12 - 13 season he is currently shooting 48.4%.

    Marc Gasol's best season was by far his second year. In the 09 - 10 season, he averaged 14.6 PPG on 9.4 FGA (58.1 FG%), 9.3 RPG (career high), 2.4 APG, 1 SPG and 1.6 BPG. He was 25 back then. It's important to note that this is the same age that Roy was in the 11 - 12 season.

    It's nice to know the whole picture, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You want to bring up Hibbert's blocks, how many blocks did Gasol have last night? Just in case you don't recall it was "8"! I guess he was a REAL RIM PROTECTOR last night if blocks mean that much.
    Congratulations to Marc Gasol for his career high in blocks

    His previous career high was 6. So, good job, Marc. Keep improving

    Back on topic now. Hibbert's career high in blocks is 11. His previous career high was 9. In a playoff game.

    Hibbert is still averaging 2.7 BPG in the season, though. He is currently #3 in the league.

    Marc is averaging 1.9 BPG so far. He is #12 in the league.

    Blocking shots in itself doesn't matter a lot. Protecting the rim is what matters the most. You protect the rim by blocking and / or altering shots. Hibbert does both. He is an elite rim protector. Marc is not bad either but we all saw how he just went out of the way when Gerald Green cut to the basket and dunked emphatically. He just let him dunk without even trying to contest it. We have seen Hibbert trying to contest everything that he can get to contest without being afraid of being posterized. Marc didn't even try to contest. In fact, he walked away from the basket in order to not being caught in the highlight.

    Marc is a good defender, don't get me wrong. He is better than Hibbert on the PnR (well, a lot of people are better than Hibbert on the PnR as Hibby is bad in this area), he can protect the rim (just not at an elite level) and honestly he's just solid around defensively.

    But sorry, Hibbert is just better when it comes to defensive impact. Especially when it comes to rim protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    We just seem to disagree about whether Hibbert is overpaid, and neither of us is going to change the others opinion. In closing this discussion, I have no doubt Portland has no regrets that the Pacers matched their offer with the way Hibbert is playing after signing his Max contract. They have to be looking at JJ's production vs what his salary is with a broad smile on their faces. He may not be the defensive player Hibbert is, but then they didn't get stuck with a poor producing MAX contract player either.
    Take a look at how Portland is faring. Yes, JJ's production for his salary is amazing. But they aren't a lock for the playoffs yet (7th seed, 1/2 games above the 9th seed) and they are much closer to the LT than we are (here's the list -> http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm ).

    Do you know what Portland is missing the most this season? A rim protector. Take a look at this -> http://hoopdata.com/oteamshotlocs.aspx

    Portland's opponents shoot 65.1% at the rim (64.1% is the league average and for a comparison our opponents shoot only 60.8%) and is tied for 10th worst in the league (along with Detroit and Philly). That's not entirely terrible, of course.

    But then you go to the 3-9 ft area. Portland is allowing a 46.5 FG% from that area to their opponents. The second lowest rated team (Atlanta) is allowing 41.9%. The league average is at 38.3%. And we are only allowing 30.3% (the best in the league).

    A rim protector as good as Hibbert would help them tremendously and help hide Aldridge's defensive deficiencies. Hibbert would make their defense good. Do you want to know how Portland ranks defensively at the moment? Check this out -> http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/

    21st in Opponent PPG, 23rd in Defensive Efficiency, 30th in Opponent Points in the Paint, 24th in Opponent Fastbreak points, 27th in Opponent FG%, 24th in Opponent eFG%, 24th in Opponent TS%, 29th in Opponent Two Point % and 29th in Opponent Non-blocked Two Point %.

    I mean, seriously. What are we even talking about? Portland is 30th in Opponent Points in the Paint. 30th! 30th! We are 1st. We're allowing 35.7 PPG in the Paint (the Clippers are second at 37.5) while Portland allows 44.8 PPG in the Paint.

    Don't you think that this would not be the case if Hibbert was in Portland? They suck defensively in the aspect that he's best at. Protecting the damn rim. He would be invaluable to them.

    If Portland was good at protecting the rim then they would be a lock for playoffs. They could even be a quite high seed seeing that the West is once again quite open.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    The funny thing is that if we didnt match Portland could have damn near the best team in basketball. They are a rim protector and a bench away(bench you can solve pretty easy with savy moves look at the Clippers cheap bench and moving Hickson to the bench would dramatically improve it.) from being a really legit contender

    I dont know where they get that rim protector from but getting one is a must. Hibbert would make them go from the worst defense in the league to top 15 pretty easy imo they have good wing defenders.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    You mean the playoffs where Big Baby Davis bullied Hibbert? Absolutely. Marc Gasol gets bullied by nobody, and certainly not that fat little crybaby.
    Newsflash no 1: Glen Davis is a good basketball player. He is averaging 16 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1 SPG and 0.7 BPG in this season. It's his first time playing starter minutes and he's finally proving that he is a baller. Yes, he is a PF and not a Center but he always could score. And that's what he did in that playoff series. He scored. He took advantage of his speed and perimeter shooting and scored.

    Newsflash no 2: Roy Hibbert wasn't bullied by Glen Davis. He averaged 11 PPG, 10.8 RPG and 3.8 BPG in the series.

    It's just amazing how much one's perception can distort and clearly deny reality. The facts are there. The stats are proving it.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../gamelog/2012/

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...davisgl01.html
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Newsflash no 1: Glen Davis is a good basketball player. He is averaging 16 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1 SPG and 0.7 BPG in this season. It's his first time playing starter minutes and he's finally proving that he is a baller. Yes, he is a PF and not a Center but he always could score. And that's what he did in that playoff series. He scored. He took advantage of his speed and perimeter shooting and scored.

    Newsflash no 2: Roy Hibbert wasn't bullied by Glen Davis. He averaged 11 PPG, 10.8 RPG and 3.8 BPG in the series.

    It's just amazing how much one's perception can distort and clearly deny reality. The facts are there. The stats are proving it.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../gamelog/2012/

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...davisgl01.html
    The stats prove what? He scored 50% less than a guy he is 8 inches taller than. He couldn't get good position down low, he got bullied, he didn't score for **** in a match up where he should score 30 every time. He grabbed 10 rebounds a game against a 6'6" guy. If I was 7'2" and didn't put up 30/15 with them playing a 6'6" guy on me, someone should put me on suicide watch. I got too much pride to think 10 points and 11 boards against an undersized power forward is any good. You are straight delusional if you think they are good numbers in that matchup. He averaged less points than his season average... against a super short power forward! What a joke.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    It's too bad there are never any 4'11" guys playing pickup games at the gym... guess I should go to some local middle schools or something. I'm just laughing at the idea of a guy I'm 8 inches taller than trying to defend me in the post. I'd score 80%+ of the time.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    The stats prove what? He scored 50% less than a guy he is 8 inches taller than. He couldn't get good position down low, he got bullied, he didn't score for **** in a match up where he should score 30 every time. He grabbed 10 rebounds a game against a 6'6" guy. If I was 7'2" and didn't put up 30/15 with them playing a 6'6" guy on me, someone should put me on suicide watch. I got too much pride to think 10 points and 11 boards against an undersized power forward is any good. You are straight delusional if you think they are good numbers in that matchup. He averaged less points than his season average... against a super short power forward! What a joke.
    Davis at the pre-draft combine was 6 7 3/4 without shoes and 6 foot 9 with shoes. I can't find Hibbert's measurements to see if his 7 foot 2 is with shoes or not. Davis also weighs just as much if not more than Hibbert. So the size difference isn't quite that huge.

    And I wouldn't say Hibbert was particularly great in that series, but there was no reason for the Pacers to go to that matchup. West is good in the post as well, and the Pacers gameplan all series was just to pound it into whoever Ryan Anderson was guarding. IIRC, they only put Anderson on Hibbert for one quarter of that entire series. After Hibbert scored 12 points in the quarter, they quickly changed back. It wasn't so much that Hibbert couldn't score on Davis, but more that they didn't even try to go there that often.

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