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Thread: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

  1. #51
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    The best part about Paul is that it almost seemed like a "quiet" 29 points.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    re bornready...

    I'd like to find out. Can't be any worse than what we're gettin now at the backup positions.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    question - do you guys think Orlando Johnson can *eventually* be somewhat of a Jordan Crawford type player?
    No.

    Jordan Crawford was born with the scoring gene. As Bill Simmons would say, he's one of those "irrational confidence" guys. Orlando, from what I've seen/read about him, doesn't have that in him.

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    I doubt Orlando Johnson can do anything because he can't make it on the court with a team that lacks wings. Young is NOT good, so why can't Johnson replace him? It makes me doubt his talent.

    Green is struggling to find his role, but he hasn't exactly played well. So somewhere between our backup wings there are minutes to be found by someone who is just beyond terrible. Yet the coaches are reluctant to give him the chance so I don't put much hope in Orlando.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    question - do you guys think Orlando Johnson can *eventually* be somewhat of a Jordan Crawford type player?
    Unless we get ravaged by injuries at the guard and wing spots in the next year, I don't think we will ever know.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I don't really understand why people get upset over Roy getting pushed around. He routinely does get pushed around, yes. But he literally routinely gets pushed around. As in, his undersized defender puts two hands on his back and pushes him away from the basket. Because he's so big, referees assume that he should take more contact before calling a foul. He probably would havee had 16-18 points tonight if he had gotten the foul calls he should have earned tonight.

    It's the Shaq/Dwight complaint that they get hit hard a lot more often. Only in this case, Roy isn't quite as strong as them so it affects his offense even more. But you also notice he doesn't complain about it like other well paid centers. Those who think he needs to "put on his big boy pants" need to consider that.



    The past couple of years, when Roy doesn't get rebounds it's not normally because he's being weak. Usually I find it the case that he just happened to lose more rebounds that game because he was working hard at routinely taking away rebounding position from a player or two on the opposing team. Sometimes he gets beaten to a spot, and against the strong freaks like Cousins he gets outmuscled, but he wins the battle most trips.
    Not only this, but there are times when Roy has to rotate over to contain penetration and he ends up blocking or altering the shot and someone else gets a rebound. I'm watching this game now - I am midway through the second quarter - and I've seen Roy do this twice and the rebound ended up going to PG. I think we have to figure that playing more with DJ (who has been good offensively with the starters, but we can all agree that he is a really bad defender) is going to have an impact on his rebounding numbers because he often has to pick up DJ's man when he gets into the paint.

    I'm ecstatic with 6 of 11 shooting for Roy.

    Edit: Midway through the 3rd quarter and I've seen Roy tip the ball out to DWest, who gets the offensive rebound recorded in his column. So that's three rebounds that someone on the team got in large part because of something positive Roy did. When you combine these things with the fact that he was limited to 24 minutes I'm not in the least bit bothered by the 4 rebound total.
    Last edited by gummy; 01-03-2013 at 12:18 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I doubt Orlando Johnson can do anything because he can't make it on the court with a team that lacks wings. Young is NOT good, so why can't Johnson replace him? It makes me doubt his talent.

    Green is struggling to find his role, but he hasn't exactly played well. So somewhere between our backup wings there are minutes to be found by someone who is just beyond terrible. Yet the coaches are reluctant to give him the chance so I don't put much hope in Orlando.
    I don't expect our coaches to lose patience to their players that easily. I think that they believe that OJ needs a year in the D-League before getting substantial minutes. I think that they want to develop him first.

    Lance did not play a lot last year either (granted, he played more than OJ). But he has talent and he's proving it this year.

    In general, we seem to take it easy with our youngsters. I expect OJ to be part of our rotation in the next season.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Sorry, but I just don't buy it regarding Roy.

    What I will give Hibbert is that he is 10x the defensive player that I ever thought he would become. He started out as a player that could not guard very well at all. He took up room and that was about it. The following year, although he wasn't a great man on defender, he occasionally registered the block on help defense. How the hell he ever became the rim protector he has become is beyond me, but being a person who emphasizes defense over offense, I must confess that he impresses the hell out of me. He isn't great far from the basket, but that is exactly why a good defensive PG like Hill is so important at the point.

    But as much as he has improved on defense, I swear I think he has regressed just as much on offense.

    I was spot on about his hook. His form and grace absolutely sucks. With the height and reach advantage he has on nearly every player in the league, with any form at all, a hook should be bread and butter from 5-10 feet. And anything inside that range, I would absolutely command him to dunk. Whether a dunk or a hook, I see no need for him to lower the ball or put it on the floor. If the shot isn't there, or his footwork/timing gets messed up and the shot clock allows, pass it out rather than putting up the shot. There is absolutely no excuse for his shooting percentage and efficiency not being much better than what it is.

    I really thought that Hibbert would improve slightly over the offensive player that we saw last season. But it's just not the case. I don't buy that he's getting "handled" nearly as much as he is failing to cut hard, drop and hold position. I will say that it is possible that the presence of Granger might make that task easier for him.

    But right now, whether Granger were on the court or not, other than the form of his hook shot, my biggest problem with Hibbert is that he does not show the same level of intensity and perseverance at the offense end as he does at the offensive end.

    How strange is it that it is possible to make a statement like that about a player? Almost always we make statements like that about a player's defensive efforts. But I believe Roy still has a lot to work on offensively.

    If Roy were being "handled" as much as some seem to think, considering how poorly he holds position, he would be flying all over the place and more fouls would be called.

    I do hope the Pacers retain West. Roy has a lot to learn from him regarding the little tricks like footwork that are required to earn good positioning. Now, if the Pacers could just get Kareem to teach Hibbert how to properly release a hook shot. And, if Kareem is not available or unwilling, they can give me a call, because at age 60 mine is much better and certainly finds net on a much more frequent basis.
    Last edited by beast23; 01-03-2013 at 12:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Lance Stephenson may be the most entertaining Pacer since Ron Artest. His circus shots during games are a coaches worst nightmare, but as a fan I have mixed emotions. The dunk miss was terrible, his rucker park half spin reverse layup attempt was actually very creative and it was unfortunate the finish was just not there. Regardless, Lance is entertaining.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Oh yea, I forgot, during the post game Roy basically called out the bench. Good for him.
    What did he say?
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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    didn't paul in the postgame interview with brooke say something along the lines of "having danny gone isn't a blessing but...." I know this might get taken as I took it the wrong way and stirring the pot but that comment kind of made me cringe a little.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I was spot on about his hook. His form and grace absolutely sucks.
    Yes. It wasn't this bad last year. I wonder how much of the regression is about the wrist injury.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Sorry, but I just don't buy it regarding Roy.

    What I will give Hibbert is that he is 10x the defensive player that I ever thought he would become. He started out as a player that could not guard very well at all. He took up room and that was about it. The following year, although he wasn't a great man on defender, he occasionally registered the block on help defense. How the he'll he ever became the rim protector he has become is beyond me, but being a person who emphasizes defense over offense, I must confess that he impresses the he'll out of me. He isn't great far from the basket, but that is exactly why a good defensive PG like Hill is so important at the point.

    But as much as he has improved on defense, I swear I think he has regressed just as much on offense.

    I was spot on about his hook. His form and grace absolutely sucks. With the height and reach advantage he has on nearly every player in the league, with any form at all, a hook should be bread and butter from 5-10 feet. And anything inside that range, I would absolutely command him to dunk. Whether a dunk or a hook, I see no need for him to lower the ball or put it on the floor. If the shot isn't there, or his footwork/timing gets messed up and the shot clock allows, pass it out rather than putting up the shot. There is absolutely no excuse for his shooting percentage and efficiency not being much better than what it is.

    I really thought that Hibbert would improve slightly over the offensive player that we saw last season. But it's just not the case. I don't buy that he's getting "handled" nearly as much as he is failing to cut hard, drop and hold position. I will say that it is possible that the presence of Granger might make that task easier for him.

    But right now, whether Granger were on the court or not, other than the form of his hook shot, my biggest problem with Hibbert is that he does not show the same level of intensity and perseverance at the offense end as he does at the offensive end.

    How strange is it that it is possible to make a statement like that about a player? Almost always we make statements like that about a player's defensive efforts. But I believe Roy still has a lot to work on offensively.

    If Roy were being "handled" as much as some seem to think, considering how poorly he holds position, he would be flying all over the place and more fouls would be called.

    I do hope the Pacers retain West. Roy has a lot to learn from him regarding the little tricks like footwork that are required to earn good positioning. Now, if the Pacers could just get Kareem to teach Hibbert how to properly release a hook shot. And, if Kareem is not available or unwilling, they can give me a call, because at age 60 mine is much better and certainly finds net on a much more frequent basis.
    I don't think anybody that is defending Roy thinks that he is having a good year offensively. He clearly has his own issues. But he is simply not getting shooting fouls called. (And if you are really wondering why he isn't flying all over the place...pay attention next game. He is flying all over the place) He is attempting 2.3 FTA per game. That is the least since his rookie season, when he averaged 2.1 FTA in 14.4 MPG (Roughly half of what he plays this season).

    Last season he took 3.7 FTA per game. Watching the games, Roy gets fouled much more this year than he ever did last season, but the fouls aren't coming. If you were to take those 1.4 FTAs and subtract their roughly equivalent value ( 0.7 FGA) from his numbers, you find that he would be shooting 42.5%. Still not good, but it's better.

    That's obviously not a perfect way of looking at things, but since his FGA are basically the same but his FTA are down 50% you'd have to imagine something was up. And he gets pushed and bumped enough that his FTA should be higher than they are.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    didn't paul in the postgame interview with brooke say something along the lines of "having danny gone isn't a blessing but...." I know this might get taken as I took it the wrong way and stirring the pot but that comment kind of made me cringe a little.
    I think he is the most nervous NBA player I've ever seen interviewed and anything he says should come with a disclaimer.

    But it's also something that thousands of Pacer fans and writers have said. And I would guess that the coaching staff preached repeatedly about the opportunities that Granger's injury opens up. You don't say, "We're missing our best player, let's hope you guys don't suck without him." You say, "We're missing our best player, this is an opportunity for the rest of you to step and prove yourself. In the end we will be stronger because we got better with him out."

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  23. #65
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I missed the game, but I was wondering about the Roy comments as well. If he'd been hitting 6 of 11 all season long he wouldn't be getting any flak. Of course, 4 rebounds ain't gonna cut it, but overall his rebounding hasn't been a problem.
    I disagree, I think his rebounding has been lack luster all season especially with his offense being almost non-existent. His rebounding stops him from being an elite defender. A Center with his height and size should be able to average a double double. Rebounding is all about positioning, anticipation, and of course effort. If you can't score due to all the double teams then you better be able to rebound at a high clip to be playing the minutes he gets. Especially since West is not a particularly strong rebounder. A good starting Center in the NBA should be able to get you more than 10 rebs a game especially on a max contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Oh yea, I forgot, during the post game Roy basically called out the bench. Good for him.
    I thought it was classless to call out the bench like that. To complain about the Bench losing a 17pt lead when you picked up 2 fouls way before the half, not to mention only pulling 4 rebounds. Don't call out the bench when you haven't given it your best performance, and just recently put up a double goose egg and ending a great win streak.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    I don't pay attention to how well he runs the point...but is DJ doing better because of the quality of the Players that he is playing with over the last 2 games?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    On a semi-irrelevant note....what happened to the drummers? Am I going deaf and blind in some strange percussion instruments only way? Or did BLF nix them?
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Why did Hibbert kick Kevin Lee out of the chair? The interview had like 15 secs left, what a goober.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I don't pay attention to how well he runs the point...but is DJ doing better because of the quality of the Players that he is playing with over the last 2 games?
    Of course. He is not over-dribbling anymore because he is confident that when he gets a player an open shot they will convert more often than not.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I don't pay attention to how well he runs the point...but is DJ doing better because of the quality of the Players that he is playing with over the last 2 games?
    I think so. I always maintained that was one of AJ's issues too.

    You can't throw a point guard out there who just desperately wants to run an offense with guys who are pretty much incapable of running an offense. (Young does nothing on offense, Tyler doesn't have a clue what he's doing on offense, Green is not a "score within the flow of the offense" kind of guy. Ian's probably the only one you can do anything with.)

    Guys like DJ (and AJ) aren't really that great at simply creating something out of nothing, every time down the floor. (Like Steve Nash) AJ at least had some set things he'd do (PnP with Hans, alley oop to Lou, pass it to DJ, run a screen for Hill for a midrange jump shot, and shoot himself.) DJ hasn't even figured out some set things to run with the group.

    The only thing that might change, is up until now, DJ's been quite gun shy (because he hasn't been shooting well) and he's scored well with the starters. The defense will change when he's with the backups, but maybe some confidence with his scoring will help him when he returns to playing backup minutes.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    What did he say?
    Couldn't find the exact quote, but he mentioned something about not being satisfied with the victory and feeling helpless when the team loses leads. Said he'd like to come back in to help stop it, but guys deserved to play. It wasn't that bad, but you could tell he wasn't happy about losing the big lead.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Why did Hibbert kick Kevin Lee out of the chair? The interview had like 15 secs left, what a goober.
    Haha he Debo'd him. That was kinda weird.

    As for Hibbert calling out the bench, I don't mind it. He's been poor offensively for a while now, but he's still a team leader and it's the first unit, his unit, that keeps getting their leads lost. I'm glad he said how he felt, and I'm sure the other starters feel the same.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 01-03-2013 at 01:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Ugly, but we won. A crisp game could've netted a 40 point win.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I think he had a quite good game. He hit his shot for once and had some nice dimes as well. You can argue about his rebounding numbers (and you'd have a point) but PG just gobbled up every defensive rebound that was close to his proximity.
    Roy had an ok game, still sub par for what. He is. Getting paid... He looks really really weak

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Ugly win. Here's the thing: more often than not, even against bad teams, we need an outstanding performance from one or two guys to make up for the rest of the team. This time it was Paul George (again).

    It gets frustrating if the second unit is out there and a double digit lead slips away.

    I do like our defensive identity, that's for sure. We came a long way when I recall the JOB time.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Wizards Postgame Thread 1/2/13

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    he does not show the same level of intensity and perseverance at the offense end as he does at the offensive end.

    How strange is it that it is possible to make a statement like that about a player?
    Very strange. Very, very strange.
    .

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