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Thread: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I'm inclined to agree. I haven't watched Haddadi enough to make an accurate evaluation of his skills and talents but there's no reason not to develop a 7'2 265 lbs Center, especially when he can play good D. Haddadi is a quite good post defender and they could use him in several occassions.

    For instance, the Grizzlies used Haddadi in a game agains the Lakers last March. He played almost 13 mins and contributed 10 points, 6 rebounds and 3 blocks. He can contribute defensively and on the boards but Memphis has only used him 5 games this season.

    It makes sense for them since they want to develop Darrell Arthur in order to be their PF of the future but Darrell can lose them some games. He absolutely contributed to our comeback with his turnovers early in the game. But I understand that coaches need to build confidence and trust with the players that consider part of their future core. It's apparent that Haddadi is not in their long-term plans. Which is a shame, really.

    I had a similar opinion last year on Vogel's lack of usage of Fesenko. I feel that both Kyrylo and Hamed can be solid back-up bigs, if given the opportunity.
    Sorry I disagree. I have a lot of respect for Lionel Hollins and his coaching abilities. Look how far Memphis has came under his leadership. I have full confidence Hollins is playing the guys he feels will give him the best shot to win. Hollins watches Haddadi (and everyone else) practice on a day to day basis. If Hadaddi was good enough to warrant serious playing time Hollins would be giving it to him.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    I just finished watching the second half. It was a beauty

    Memphis is a quite similar team with ours and it's always a beauty to watch two defensive-minded teams going at each other. It was an intense game and this win was a great New Year gift.

    Paul George played great, of course. Roy Hibbert did a good job. West was outmuscled all night by Randolph and made some bad turnovers but still managed to get to 13 and 9 with 2 blocks. Lance was good, especially in the first half. He did some mistakes in the second half but I'm glad that he wasn't pulled from the game when he missed those two boards (although, the first missed rebound was West's fault and not Lance's). DJ Augustin surprised us all. He is still bad on defense (I mean, a simple screen can throw him off from the entire defensive possession) but he came up big offensively. He hit four 3s (including a pretty big one to put us ahead by 6 points late in the 4th) and iced the game with his free throws. He made some nice reads offensively as well. He had an excellent pass to West on a secondary fast break in the first half and also made a great pass to a cutting Hibbert in the third quarter. He has the ability to penetrate and dish. Tyler Hansbrough had a good game. His energy is always a given but he hit some jumpers this time around to go along with his rebounding and 2 blocks. Ben Hansbrough came up big when we needed him the most. Those two 3s in the start of the 4th put us back in the game. I'm not sure if we could come back without those 3s. Which is a scary thought, of course

    Ian Mahinmi and Gerald Green could play better. The good thing is that they contributed more than they cost us. For example, Mahinmi didn't get shots to fall and didn't draw fouls but he had 2 steals and blocked out nicely. Gerald Green shot 2/5 but he had 1 rebound, 1 assist and 1 steal to go along with his points. And he only turned it over once. So, while they could have been better, they didn't cost us anything.

    As people have noted, we would have lost the game if it wasn't for the 3 point shot. But hey, the 3 point shot is an important weapon that has to be utilized. It is only negative when you live and die by it. Now, chances are that we aren't going to get 6 3 point shots out of Ben Hansbrough and DJ Augustin but that level of production can be replaced with George Hill and Gerald Green (and, of course, Granger when he comes back).

    So, I'll accept the good shooting night and take the win

    Before I go on and analyze the points in the paint and the Gasol vs Roy match up, I need to say something about the rebounding.

    They outrebounded us 44 - 38. They had 18 offensive rebounds and we had 11 offensive rebounds. That's a significant difference and it's fair to say that we lost that battle.

    Most of their offensive rebounds came from the Power Forward spot. Randolph had 5 offensive boards and Speights had 4. Those were half their offensive boards. West was simply outmuscled by Randolph most of the time and Tyler lost some assignments in the first half as well. Lance, PG and Gerald Green lost some boards as well. Hibbert and Mahinmi did a good job blocking out their match ups when they were not guarding a player in the perimeter after a switch. Strangely, our PF spot grabbed 8 of our 11 offensive boards. So, that's something to chew on.

    Also, I have to note that if we had George Hill the rebounding battle would be closer. As I've said in a previous thread, George Hill is an excellent rebounder. His 4.4 rebounds per game put him at the 3rd place of the rebounding leaders for PGs along with Jason Kidd, Greivis Vasquez and Stephen Curry. Only Rajon Rondo and Russel Westbrooks are better rebounders in the PG spot. DJ Augustin, on the other hand, is not a good rebounder. Not that it is his fault that we lost the rebounding battle (that was mostly the fault of our PFs) but I'm just saying that with Hill it could be closer.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Sorry I disagree. I have a lot of respect for Lionel Hollins and his coaching abilities. Look how far Memphis has came under his leadership. I have full confidence Hollins is playing the guys he feels will give him the best shot to win. Hollins watches Haddadi (and everyone else) practice on a day to day basis. If Hadaddi was good enough to warrant serious playing time Hollins would be giving it to him.
    It's good that you have a lot of respect for Lionel Hollins since the majority of the Grizzlies fans at that forum seemed to have lost all confidence on him. Of course, I take their comments with a grain of salt since a lot of fans tend to overreact after a loss and lash out to their players / coaches in order to vent (I wonder where have I seen it before ).

    Personally, I respect both Lionel Hollins and Frank Vogel. But I disagree with them in the use of Hamed Haddadi and Kyrylo Fesenko, respectively. However, I can see why they did that.

    Tyler Hansbrough was a lottery pick. A coach has the obligation to try and develop the lottery pick that the FO drafted. Therefore, Tyler will get PT and chances even if his play isn't cutting it.

    Darrell Arthur wasn't a lottery pick but he was still a 1st round pick. He was very good for them in 2010-2011. He was injured last season and the FO was quick to extend him. They have invested in him and so he will continue to get PT. He is their PF of the future. They have to develop him.

    Kyrylo Fesenko was just a late FA pick up for Indy. He was more of an insure than anything else. Of course, I believe that Vogel should play him when it was clear that we needed a rim protector and Lou wasn't cutting it but he chose to stick with his plan (which I respect even though I disagree).

    Hamed Haddadi is used in a similar manner. He is used as an insurance. He could be used in several situations (as I've said, he's a good post defender) but he isn't getting PT because he isn't in the future plans of the Grizzlies.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    @HPbasketball: I balked at the idea yesterday inititally when someone asked, but if you offered Paul George for Rudy Gay and a future 1st, I'd jump at it.



    I wouldn't do it and I like Rudy.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    It's good that you have a lot of respect for Lionel Hollins since the majority of the Grizzlies fans at that forum seemed to have lost all confidence on him. Of course, I take their comments with a grain of salt since a lot of fans tend to overreact after a loss and lash out to their players / coaches in order to vent (I wonder where have I seen it before ).

    Personally, I respect both Lionel Hollins and Frank Vogel. But I disagree with them in the use of Hamed Haddadi and Kyrylo Fesenko, respectively. However, I can see why they did that.

    Tyler Hansbrough was a lottery pick. A coach has the obligation to try and develop the lottery pick that the FO drafted. Therefore, Tyler will get PT and chances even if his play isn't cutting it.

    Darrell Arthur wasn't a lottery pick but he was still a 1st round pick. He was very good for them in 2010-2011. He was injured last season and the FO was quick to extend him. They have invested in him and so he will continue to get PT. He is their PF of the future. They have to develop him.

    Kyrylo Fesenko was just a late FA pick up for Indy. He was more of an insure than anything else. Of course, I believe that Vogel should play him when it was clear that we needed a rim protector and Lou wasn't cutting it but he chose to stick with his plan (which I respect even though I disagree).

    Hamed Haddadi is used in a similar manner. He is used as an insurance. He could be used in several situations (as I've said, he's a good post defender) but he isn't getting PT because he isn't in the future plans of the Grizzlies.

    That just shows how dumb fans are, nothing more. Look at the Grizzlies record before Hollins and after. People are stupid.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    @HPbasketball: I balked at the idea yesterday inititally when someone asked, but if you offered Paul George for Rudy Gay and a future 1st, I'd jump at it.



    I wouldn't do it and I like Rudy.
    Paul is better on defense and will be better on offense than Rudy Gay. Paul is playing better than Granger right now...and he's only 22. Paul George is going to be the best NBA Pacer ever folks.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Paul is playing better than Granger right now...and he's only 22..
    Thats not hard to do right now LOL.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    @HPbasketball: I balked at the idea yesterday inititally when someone asked, but if you offered Paul George for Rudy Gay and a future 1st, I'd jump at it.



    I wouldn't do it and I like Rudy.
    We would be fools to take on Rudy's contract.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    DJs demeanor always appears uninterested and pouty to me. He never provides a spark. (doesn't appear to play hard) But yesterday I saw a bright eyed kid who was competing and motivated, though I only felt like he played adequately. I'm sorry, if you can play that way when you are starting, you can play with that same attitude coming off the bench.
    I thought he played well yesterday, but I don't think his demeanor was too different than usual. I think its just his character - just as Hansbrough is often overly enthusiastic, I think DJ is the opposite. I actually think its a good trait to have in a PG.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    That just shows how dumb fans are, nothing more. Look at the Grizzlies record before Hollins and after. People are stupid.
    I agree with that but that wasn't the point of my post.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    For example, in Clutch Fans (Rockets board) they believe that Patrick Patterson's trade value is so low that they cannot even take a 2nd round pick for him.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Yes, of course.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Sorry I disagree. I have a lot of respect for Lionel Hollins and his coaching abilities. Look how far Memphis has came under his leadership. I have full confidence Hollins is playing the guys he feels will give him the best shot to win. Hollins watches Haddadi (and everyone else) practice on a day to day basis. If Hadaddi was good enough to warrant serious playing time Hollins would be giving it to him.
    If only our fans thought so much of Vogel that they could give him the benefit of the doubt regarding who plays what position and how much he plays. Unfortunately, no teams fans are so obliging. And, I think that is especially true for your fellow PDers.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    I don't like Hollins and like Brooks I think they are the things holding those teams back, Hollins doesn't believe in spacing and Brooks has a man crush on Perkins even though he sucks.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Hollins doesn't believe in spacing
    That's true. That's the main complain of those Grizzlies fans as well. In their words "it's always paint, paint, paint".
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    For what it's worth, Spears has us at #9 in the league right now.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nb...180822344.html
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't like Hollins and like Brooks I think they are the things holding those teams back, Hollins doesn't believe in spacing and Brooks has a man crush on Perkins even though he sucks.
    Perfect example of a fan analysis. Memphis starting guards are shooting 34% from three, which is pretty bad considering teams crowd the paint and try to take away Gasol and Randolph. Memphis's starting guards can't make teams pay, so that CLEARLY means Hollins doesn't believe in floor spacing. It makes it real hard to space the court without guards knocking down shots there.

    And you criticize Brooks for playing Perkins too much? Who do you want him to play ahead of Perkins. Granted, Perkins isn't Kevin Garnett, but have you ever thought maybe he is the best option they have? Scott Brooks has been around the game for about 20 years now, runs practice and has experienced assistants. Do you think they are all just dumb? Are they playing Perkins because they just like him better? Or do you just know more than the Thunder coaches who have experience or are around the team everyday?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Hollins is also the duma** that decided to trade Greivis Vasquez for nothing because he didn't fit his system, how stupid is that?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Perfect example of a fan analysis. Memphis starting guards are shooting 34% from three, which is pretty bad considering teams crowd the paint and try to take away Gasol and Randolph. Memphis's starting guards can't make teams pay, so that CLEARLY means Hollins doesn't believe in floor spacing. It makes it real hard to space the court without guards knocking down shots there.
    Well I don't work in the NBA so yeah it's a "fan analysis", like 99% of the analysis on this forum ........

    And you criticize Brooks for playing Perkins too much? Who do you want him to play ahead of Perkins. Granted, Perkins isn't Kevin Garnett, but have you ever thought maybe he is the best option they have? Scott Brooks has been around the game for about 20 years now, runs practice and has experienced assistants. Do you think they are all just dumb? Are they playing Perkins because they just like him better? Or do you just know more than the Thunder coaches who have experience or are around the team everyday?
    JOB has been around the NBA for a long time does that make him a good coach? of course not, just because somebody has been around the NBA for a long time doesn't mean that he can be a good coach.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Hollins is also the duma** that decided to trade Greivis Vasquez for nothing because he didn't fit his system, how stupid is that?
    Yeah, he is a real dumb***. Hollins first full season in Memphis was the 2009-10 Season. Since then his record is 146-112 with a playoff series with over the San Antonio Spurs (1st series win in franchise history I believe).

    In the three years prior to Hollins taking over Memphis was a combined 68-178. The year before Hollins took over some common names on the Memphis roster are: Mike Conley, Marc Gasol and Rudy Gay (some of the same core pieces he is winning with this season).

    If you look at the before and after it is clear there are idiots around here, but one is not Lionel Hollins. He has done a great job.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    [QUOTE=vnzla81;1555580]

    Well I don't work in the NBA so yeah it's a "fan analysis", like 99% of the analysis on this forum ........



    JOB has been around the NBA for a long time does that make him a good coach? of course not, just because somebody has been around the NBA for a long time doesn't mean that he can be a good coach.

    Yeah, good analysis. Hollins only played 11 years in the NBA as a point guard. Clearly he has no idea off the importance of, or how to space the court. Idiot coach. Forget the fact his starting guards can't hit open shots, Hollins just doesn't understand spacing. Good call.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    As people have noted, we would have lost the game if it wasn't for the 3 point shot. But hey, the 3 point shot is an important weapon that has to be utilized. It is only negative when you live and die by it.
    Like you said winning because you hit a lot of threes is not something to use as a knock against the win. It is all about what is working during that game. If the three is falling no reason to stop shooting it, but if it isn't you have to realize that and adjust. It is all about finding a way to win that game, and going to what is working during that game. Since the three was working the went to that, if it wasn't they most likely shoot fewer threes, and try to when using other means.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Yeah, he is a real dumb***. Hollins first full season in Memphis was the 2009-10 Season. Since then his record is 146-112 with a playoff series with over the San Antonio Spurs (1st series win in franchise history I believe).

    In the three years prior to Hollins taking over Memphis was a combined 68-178. The year before Hollins took over some common names on the Memphis roster are: Mike Conley, Marc Gasol and Rudy Gay (some of the same core pieces he is winning with this season).

    If you look at the before and after it is clear there are idiots around here, but one is not Lionel Hollins. He has done a great job.
    Yes Hollins has done a good job but that does not mean that somebody else can't do an even better job, to me Hollins stubbornness is holding the team back, he likes to play in a certain way and he doesn't care to go down by playing his way, Hollins, Brooks and Del Negro are to me on the same boat.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Perfect example of a fan analysis. Memphis starting guards are shooting 34% from three, which is pretty bad considering teams crowd the paint and try to take away Gasol and Randolph. Memphis's starting guards can't make teams pay, so that CLEARLY means Hollins doesn't believe in floor spacing. It makes it real hard to space the court without guards knocking down shots there.
    Memphis still has some back ups that can shoot. Ellington is one of them. He is shooting 39.4% which is a quite respectable percentage. But he's only logging 16.2 MPG and Grizzlies' fans complain about his short leash.

    Memphis did not attempted a lot of perimeter shots last night. I'm doing a shot chart analysis (well, I'm not an expert, of course) at the moment for the game and they took the majority of the shots in the paint. I'll post it later.

    That certainly seems like a coaching plan to me.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Memphis still has some back ups that can shoot. Ellington is one of them. He is shooting 39.4% which is a quite respectable percentage. But he's only logging 16.2 MPG and Grizzlies' fans complain about his short leash.

    Memphis did not attempted a lot of perimeter shots last night. I'm doing a shot chart analysis (well, I'm not an expert, of course) at the moment for the game and they took the majority of the shots in the paint. I'll post it later.

    That certainly seems like a coaching plan to me.
    Of course it is the coaches plan. His two best players/scorers are in the post and his guards struggle shooting the ball.

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