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Thread: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

  1. #101
    Redemption. docpaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Have you noticed in the last few weeks that posters aren't whining or complaining about the bench play? No more last season's bench was better tripe.
    The complaining was almost all people re-calibrating their expectations from the hype during the off season. None of those guys could have lived up to preseason expectations.

    They are bench players for a reason, and they've all also started to have sparks of contributions. If you look at their body of work, the relative size/length of contracts seem to match the output of each as well.

    I predict that Mahinmi will continue to be a solid contributor.

    I predict that Green will continue to be an erratic player.

    I predict we'll have another PG (or two) within the next year.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Have you noticed in the last few weeks that posters aren't whining or complaining about the bench play? No more last season's bench was better tripe.
    Of course. The bench is playing better as of late. They found their roles and they are producing. They are not a liability. They are not giving up leads anymore. In fact, they have helped us turn some games around.

    Good production will change people's minds slowly
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  4. #103

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    I'd prefer Jarrett Jack for my $.

    I'm still not over Bird letting Jack walk while giving Foster 6 & 6.6 mil years. GRRR! I'm probably more upset over that than Bird picking up JOB's 4th year TO going into the 3rd year of JOB's contract so JOB wouldn't be a lame duck coach.

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  6. #104

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Would like to have Patterson, but we are not going to talk to Houston about Pendy for PP? Doesn't Patterson start at Houston? We don't have anyone we could offer for Patterson that they would look at, IMO. Maybe Green?

  7. #105
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'm still not over Bird letting Jack walk while giving Foster 6 & 6.6 mil years. GRRR! I'm probably more upset over that than Bird picking up JOB's 4th year TO going into the 3rd year of JOB's contract so JOB wouldn't be a lame duck coach.
    I was equally upset about letting JJ go. The contract that Toronto signed him to doesn't look that off now, in retrospect. It didn't even really seem that bad at the time.

    He's lighting it up in GS now. He also really wanted to stay here in town. One of our babysitters used to date him when he was here, and told her that he was disappointed to leave the team.

  8. #106
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Gerald Green's not worthless, but his stats are terrible, and I don't think I'm overreacting here. PPG is only 1 stat on the stat sheet. His shot selection is on par with Monta Ellis. Possibly worse.
    I am well aware that PPG is not the sole stat. But that's Green's role. He is designated as a scorer off the bench. He is not a distributor in order to have a lot of assists. You can argue about his rebounding but we're using him as a 2 and he usually leaks out if he's in the perimeter when the other team shoots. His 5 steals should be more. I can agree with that. I am happy with his 12 blocks. Also, his 37 turnovers could be less. But he has cut down on the turnovers lately. He only had 3 turnovers in the last 4 games.

    As far as his shot selection is concerned. I'm not a big fan of his off the dribble shots. But he has a good form in them and is able to elevate high and get a nice look. I'm a fan of putting him in the post and have him work inside. I believe that he will give us more points that way.

    In general, I'm not down on him. I think that we used him wrong to start the season and that we have started using him better after the OKC game. His shooting percentages are bad at the moment but I think he can improve a bit during the course of the season.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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  10. #107

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Of course. The bench is playing better as of late. They found their roles and they are producing. They are not a liability. They are not giving up leads anymore. In fact, they have helped us turn some games around.

    Good production will change people's minds slowly
    Tyler's stepped his game up recently which has been a big help. He's even been passing well recently. Everyone else is playing about the same.

    I think Frank changing his rotations and playing Lance more has helped more than anything. More Lance, and less Green or Young is a good thing.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 01-01-2013 at 10:34 PM.

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  12. #108

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I am well aware that PPG is not the sole stat. But that's Green's role. He is designated as a scorer off the bench. He is not a distributor in order to have a lot of assists. You can argue about his rebounding but we're using him as a 2 and he usually leaks out if he's in the perimeter when the other team shoots. His 5 steals should be more. I can agree with that. I am happy with his 12 blocks. Also, his 37 turnovers could be less. But he has cut down on the turnovers lately. He only had 3 turnovers in the last 4 games.

    As far as his shot selection is concerned. I'm not a big fan of his off the dribble shots. But he has a good form in them and is able to elevate high and get a nice look. I'm a fan of putting him in the post and have him work inside. I believe that he will give us more points that way.

    In general, I'm not down on him. I think that we used him wrong to start the season and that we have started using him better after the OKC game. His shooting percentages are bad at the moment but I think he can improve a bit during the course of the season.
    This. Green is supposed to be a go-to scorer off the bench. The problem is he was used more as an outside shooter where he's streaky. If they design plays for him to work more inside the paint (open up lanes for a dribble penetration, post up, or backdoor plays), he'll be more productive.

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  14. #109

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Until Green is shooting it at a good clip, it'll be hard for me to accept some of his shot attempts. Add that to his 1:2 assist/TO ratio, and IMO he's been pretty awful offensively. I agree we should put him in the post more often. He seems comfortable down there. I will say his defense has been pretty good, though. Not great, but good. Same for Young. But they're light years behind Lance offensively.

  15. #110

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Until Green is shooting it at a good clip, it'll be hard for me to accept some of his shot attempts. Add that to his 1:2 assist/TO ratio, and IMO he's been pretty awful offensively. I agree we should put him in the post more often. He seems comfortable down there. I will say his defense has been pretty good, though. Not great, but good. Same for Young. But they're light years behind Lance offensively.
    The problem with Young early on is that he's getting more shots than he's supposed to. It's good that he shoots a wide open three from time to time, but he should not be shooting too much.

  16. #111
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    This. Green is supposed to be a go-to scorer off the bench. The problem is he was used more as an outside shooter where he's streaky. If they design plays for him to work more inside the paint (open up lanes for a dribble penetration, post up, or backdoor plays), he'll be more productive.
    Last night, a Hibbert post up resulted in a good pass to a cutting Green and an easy dunk over Marc Gasol (who didn't even try to contest and just moved aside). There is no reason to not run this play more. Gerald Green can finish at the rim. We can run backdoor plays for him and generally use him as a finisher. Or we could put him in the post and utilize his size. Or use him as a spot up shooter. Or do all these together.

    Just don't use him as a shot creator. That's not his strength.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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  18. #112
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Until Green is shooting it at a good clip, it'll be hard for me to accept some of his shot attempts. Add that to his 1:2 assist/TO ratio, and IMO he's been pretty awful offensively. I agree we should put him in the post more often. He seems comfortable down there. I will say his defense has been pretty good, though. Not great, but good. Same for Young. But they're light years behind Lance offensively.
    Ok, I can see where you're coming from.

    Personally, I don't believe that shooting at a good clip has anything to do with shot selection. You can take a good shot and miss it because you're cold. Or you can take a good shot and miss it because it's not a good shot for you.

    I think that Green has been in a shooting slump for most of the season. As I said, I expect his percentages to rise a bit.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  19. #113

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Last night, a Hibbert post up resulted in a good pass to a cutting Green and an easy dunk over Marc Gasol (who didn't even try to contest and just moved aside). There is no reason to not run this play more. Gerald Green can finish at the rim. We can run backdoor plays for him and generally use him as a finisher. Or we could put him in the post and utilize his size. Or use him as a spot up shooter. Or do all these together.

    Just don't use him as a shot creator. That's not his strength.
    He'd be good player if he'd play within himself like you just mentioned. Frank must have gave him the green (no pun intended) light early on in the season, and IMO that was a mistake. He's gotta find a way to get Green to dial it back, and play smarter Bball.

  20. #114

    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Ok, I can see where you're coming from.

    Personally, I don't believe that shooting at a good clip has anything to do with shot selection. You can take a good shot and miss it because you're cold. Or you can take a good shot and miss it because it's not a good shot for you.

    I think that Green has been in a shooting slump for most of the season. As I said, I expect his percentages to rise a bit.
    You don't think his shot selection has anything to do with his percentages? I do.

  21. #115
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    He'd be good player if he'd play within himself like you just mentioned. Frank must have gave him the green (no pun intended) light early on in the season, and IMO that was a mistake. He's gotta find a way to get Green to dial it back, and play smarter Bball.
    As the designated scorer off the bench it makes sense that he has the green light. My argument is that he should be put in the position to succeed. Someone has to take the ball from his hands and feed him easy shots. Lance or DJ could be able to do that.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  22. #116
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    You don't think his shot selection has anything to do with his percentages? I do.
    I just don't think that it is a cause and effect relation between the two. His shot selection seems mostly good when he doesn't handles the ball. His percentages are down compared to last year but this can be attributed to a shooting slump and the new role he now has.

    Last year, he played in a role similar to Lance. He didn't got to handle the ball and create his own shot a lot.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  23. #117
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    A really interesting post game thread for a change. I especially liked the observations made by joe8302, and Nuntius who each made several good points. Of course others made good points too! What I liked about it was it was informative and not negative. Good job guys!

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  25. #118
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizzlies Postgame Thread 12/31/12

    Yeah who knew that a team that is near the top in most defensive categories (FG%, PPG, etc) isn't that good of a team defensively in all actuality?! Nice one there Rudy...

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