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Thread: Tyler Hansbrough

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    Default Tyler Hansbrough

    Over the past year and a half, it's pretty well documented that lots of people are expecting us to let Tyler go because of one of many different reasons. Many point to the fact that he's just not very good, that he hasn't improved, maybe more specificially that he hasn't developed post moves. But despite having minutes taking off per game Tyler has been quietly having a very good season. I don't dare to comment on his jump shooting for fear of jinxing it, but despite having a terrible run in the beginning of the year he's working his FG% up. Many people point out that some execs thought Plumlee was like "another Foster." Well if you look at who's getting playing time the only place we get energy from on the roster is Hansbrough.

    So he gets his 17 minutes per night, then goes out and averages 6.5 points and 4.4 rebounds a game. He is scoring his 6.5 ppg despite only averaging 4.4 attempts per contest and a career low 70% from the FT line. His per36 numbers are 14 pts/ 9.5 rebounds. Which means in short bursts he is as effective as any of our big men, and more efficient than any but David West. He averages almost 2 offensive rebounds per night, which means that between him, Hibbert, and Mahinmi we always have elite offensive rebounders on the floor. Also, his FG% is third on our team behind only Stephenson and West.

    He may not have the elite athleticism, but he is as strong as an ox and he has a very quick 2nd and 3rd jump. How many times has he knocked out a ball a much longer and athletic defender had caught high up in the air, then quick jumped him to secure the rebound as it came down? He is strong and he has very good hands. He pulls down a rebound or two a night he has no business in securing.

    He is even physical enough in his normal play to be an "enforcer" that so many people want on our team. No, he's not gonna go out there and pay back a hit with a dirty foul routinely. But whoever is guarding him will probably get inadvertantly popped in the mouth a couple of times because of his hard, herky-jerk style. He outworks the front line on the other team basically every night and fights for any loose ball remotely near him. He may get called for an offensive foul for aggressively positioning a night, but that is a much better turnover than the one lazy pass PG seems to throw every night.

    His defense has improved and he is no longer the black hole we all hated from him in years past. I think that it's time we stop assuming that he's going to be gone and start hoping that other teams are too put off by his ugly play to give him more money than the Pacers can justify giving him.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 01-07-2013 at 10:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Last year was a bit of an aberration, to me... I love Hansbrough, but he went to a different place last year, I'm not sure what happened. He looks like he's back and playing hte way I've always wanted to see him play. He's a capable PF, a good backup and at least good enough to step in and start if need be.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    I've seen enough from him to know I have no desire to watch him play for the Pacers again.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    I am all for keeping Hansbrough if the price is very reasonable.

    I mean in a world where Gerald Green, Patrick Patterson and Churck Hayes can earn playing time I have a tough time seeing where Hanbrough should be out of the league.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I've seen enough from him to know I have no desire to watch him play for the Pacers again.
    And I've seen enough from him to know that I want him on the Pacers for the foreseeable future. I've played up his positives, what stands out for you and makes you tick? I am curious because I think his positives far outweigh his negatives.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I've seen enough from him to know I have no desire to watch him play for the Pacers again.
    I doubt you have to worry about that. I think we let Tyler walk and try to move his minutes to Mahinmi and/or Plumlee. While I'm a big TH fan, I believe it's in the Pacers best interest to do that. We need the cap space from DJA, Pendy and Tyler to find a real backup PG. In the hope that that person will be Lance, we still need the money to resign West and add a 3rd wing. I feel that Hibbs, West, IM, and Plums would be enough to cover the big man minutes. Also, is there a chance Stanko will come over, finally?

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    I just don't see where the money comes from to re-sign Hansbrough. I agree he's had a very solid season (he's done an excellent job this season of going away from the things that he is awful at and focusing on the things that he is much better at), but that will also likely drive up his price. If they get him on a one year deal they can probably pay him some money, but anything beyond that would likely mean sacrificing West or Granger.

    Pretty much the only likely scenario I can see Tyler signed is if they decide that they'd rather go forward with Lance+Tyler rather than Granger and either trade Granger or let him go at the end of his contract.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    I doubt you have to worry about that. I think we let Tyler walk and try to move his minutes to Mahinmi and/or Plumlee. While I'm a big TH fan, I believe it's in the Pacers best interest to do that. We need the cap space from DJA, Pendy and Tyler to find a real backup PG. In the hope that that person will be Lance, we still need the money to resign West and add a 3rd wing. I feel that Hibbs, West, IM, and Plums would be enough to cover the big man minutes. Also, is there a chance Stanko will come over, finally?
    There is a problem there. West's caphold basically eliminates any possibility of being significantly below the salary cap. So that cap space won't do us much good if we plan on keeping West.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    One thing I've noticed time and time again is he's really worked on his ability to read and pass. He's not the blackhole he was coming in from NC.

    Hell, recently I saw him drive HARD down the lane when the D gave it to him, bull in a china shop style, only to surprise me by quickly reading the help D and dishing to the open man to the side of the hoop. His teammate flubbed the layin or the pass (can't recall which, but in either case the pass from Tyler was fine), but Tyler did the right thing, and it impressed me because that's real growth in that department.

    Still, on the whole, I'm firmly in the "don't care if he leaves, don't mind if he stays as long as he's cheap" category.

    Part of me thinks if we like what we see in Miles Plumlee's development, we might play him at the backup 4 next year.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    I think there's a good chance Tyler is on the Pacers next year. The problem being that I think it will be hard to keep West (though if he goes we might be screwed). Thing is, can we really afford to let all our PFs go? That would be a huge hole that we would be unable to fill. We'd have player X (free aagent?) starting and Chumlee as the back up. That's a huge step back from this year.

    Never mind, just noticed Troy Murphy will be a free agent! We can just bring him back.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    And I've seen enough from him to know that I want him on the Pacers for the foreseeable future. I've played up his positives, what stands out for you and makes you tick? I am curious because I think his positives far outweigh his negatives.
    I've probably posted about 20,000 words about why his game is so offensive. That said, I've never enjoyed watching a single player less, than I have Tyler Hansbrough. When I watch him play basketball, the fact that he's made it this far without grasping basically every major fundamental of the game, makes me cringe.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I've probably posted about 20,000 words about why his game is so offensive. That said, I've never enjoyed watching a single player less, than I have Tyler Hansbrough. When I watch him play basketball, the fact that he's made it this far without grasping basically every major fundamental of the game, makes me cringe.
    agree he and Samardo Samuels are like twins they both drive me nuts watching them play. Just bad basketball players who have no skills and fundamentals except "hustle"

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I am all for keeping Hansbrough if the price is very reasonable.

    I mean in a world where Gerald Green, Patrick Patterson and Churck Hayes can earn playing time I have a tough time seeing where Hanbrough should be out of the league.
    Out of the league is not the same thing as not picking up an option for $4m. The NBA world says that 8-9 reb/36 on 40% FG is bottom of the barrel PF play and can be found for league min contracts. If the choice is resign West OR cut Hans, this isn't a choice at all. They won't pick up the option because it's not remotely financially reasonable to do so, even with his jumper starting to fall again the last 2 weeks.

    The only thing Tyler produces at an abnormally high level are FTAs and having his own dunks blocked, and that's not sarcasm, that's from me looking at 82games.com and being shocked at his blocked dunk attempt rate.

    He hustles and I like what he can produce at times, but he's often just a mess out there. He plays out of control and that helps and hurts. He's the KNUCKLEBALL of NBA players.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-07-2013 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    He's the KNUCKLEBALL of NBA players.
    I think that we've found a new nickname for Hansbrough
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Seriously, offer Hansbrough up to the Bobcats for Gerald Henderson before the trade deadline. Both are on rookie contracts...so it's not like both Teams could lose them for nothing and I bet that Hansbrough still has enough of a fan following that he could draw in some more Psycho-T fans.

    Henderson has been pushed back to the bench to play behind Players like MKG, Ben Gordon and Sessions in the lineup and next to John Jenkins.....so it's not like they don't have the depth at the Wing rotation.
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-07-2013 at 01:56 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    I think Seth makes the best point. You just don't put yourself in a position where you might have to pay Hansbrough $4.225M next season, therefore no qualifying offer will be made. I could see the Pacers wanting to pay him maybe $2.5M per year, but how can you pay him more with the money that will be given West and eventually George?

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Out of the league is not the same thing as not picking up an option for $4m. The NBA world says that 8-9 reb/36 on 40% FG is bottom of the barrel PF play and can be found for league min contracts. If the choice is resign West OR cut Hans, this isn't a choice at all. They won't pick up the option because it's not remotely financially reasonable to do so, even with his jumper starting to fall again the last 2 weeks.

    The only thing Tyler produces at an abnormally high level are FTAs and having his own dunks blocked, and that's not sarcasm, that's from me looking at 82games.com and being shocked at his blocked dunk attempt rate.

    He hustles and I like what he can produce at times, but he's often just a mess out there. He plays out of control and that helps and hurts. He's the KNUCKLEBALL of NBA players.
    The free throws are a big, big component though. Hansbrough is 7th in FT/36 minute rate this year (minimum 100 minutes). He's sandwiched right in between Kobe Bryant and Carmelo Anthony. Not only does that create points for himself, but it also puts teams in the penalty and helps give his teammates trips to the line.

    And I would say that the rebounding, at least this year, isn't bottom of the barrel. Hansbrough is tied for 44th in rebounding per 36. Here are the other names between 40 and 50: Noah, Haslem, Pekovic, Ayon, Ibaka, Ezeli, Horford, Landry, Green. That's not a bad group to be in. Among players that ESPN lists as PF's, Hansbrough is tied for 19th out of 51 qualified players.

    The field goal percentage is obviously a major problem. But Hansbrough is back up close to where he was 2 years ago at almost 45 percent this year. That puts him 47th out of 91 PF's (Hansbrough doesn't make the qualified list because he doesn't shoot enough). The names right around him are Humphries, Davis, Seraphin, Gibson, Brand, Bass.

    He's one of the worst power forwards at assists (tied for 86th out of 97 for assists per 48). He's 1 assist every 48 minutes lower than average in that area. He's average in not turning the ball over (50th in TO's per 48 out of 97).

    So he's actually been fairly effective offensively and in the rebounding department this year. The main questions with Hansbrough are what makes this year more likely to reappear than last year, and has his team defense improved? I think the first question is likely a positive answer. The Pacers are using Hansbrough more effectively and having him shoot less which is increasing his FG percentage and also leaving him available for more rebounds. The second answer I'll leave up to everybody else, although it really can't be that horrible with the Pacers overall great defense and the fact that he is playing with at least one bad defender for a majority of his minutes (Augustin).

    I think overall it might not matter though. Hansbrough might be worth 4 million, but that doesn't mean the Pacers can afford to pay him that. They have to make their choices very carefully on who to pay the next year or two to stay out of the LT.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Seriously, offer Hansbrough up to the Bobcats for Gerald Henderson before the trade deadline. Both are on rookie contracts...so it's not like both Teams could lose them for nothing and I bet that Hansbrough still has enough of a fan following that he could draw in some more Psycho-T fans.

    Henderson has been pushed back to the bench to play behind Players like MKG, Ben Gordon and Sessions in the lineup and next to John Jenkins.....so it's not like they don't have the depth at the Wing rotation.
    I don't think the Pacers woul want to commit the $4.2M to Henderson any more than they would to Hansbrough. Plus with George possibly moving back to SG, and having Lance and two more years with Green, does it really make sense to bring Hendrson on board?

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    But despite having minutes taking off per game Tyler has been quietly having a very good season.
    Has he been having a good season, or just a good week?
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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Has he been having a good season, or just a good week?
    He is having a better year than last year, partly because he has had a great week or two.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    He is having a better year than last year, partly because he has had a great week or two.
    And mostly because as long as his head isn't spinning in circles, it couldn't have gotten any worse.
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 01-07-2013 at 04:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Man, if you could take Hansbrough's will, energy, and just full-on fearlessness, and match it with... leaping ability and a real honest-to-goodness post game, we'd have a keeper for off-the-bench energy.

    He's definitely started to respond to his shortcomings: he's less of a black hole on offense (he actually passes the ball out of the post sometimes), and he clearly has been practicing his midrange game.

    All of that said though, some of his shortcomings were so severe, I don't think he's going to make it with us.

    Here's the question: would he accept a Mahinmi-like deal? Is he worth a Mahinmi-like deal?

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Here's the question: would he accept a Mahinmi-like deal? Is he worth a Mahinmi-like deal?
    Tyler's response to an offer of $16 Million over 4 years: "Is there where I answer yes, or hell yes?"

    Is he worth an offer of $16 Million over 4 years? I'll have to get back to you, I think I'm going to be sick.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I've probably posted about 20,000 words about why his game is so offensive. That said, I've never enjoyed watching a single player less, than I have Tyler Hansbrough. When I watch him play basketball, the fact that he's made it this far without grasping basically every major fundamental of the game, makes me cringe.
    See, I like watching Tyler.

    Mostly because I find that style amusing. I know his play isn't always beneficial to the team, but I just get a kick out of him.

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    Default Re: Tyler Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    I think overall it might not matter though. Hansbrough might be worth 4 million, but that doesn't mean the Pacers can afford to pay him that. They have to make their choices very carefully on who to pay the next year or two to stay out of the LT.
    Yeah, they've spent the "primary bench big man" money on Mahinmi. He needs to improve his hands, but in every other way he excels past Tyler. He is bigger and his size/hops both show, he's smoother on drives as long as he doesn't let the ball get stripped and he can play back to the basket. Ian has improved each season and was coming from a much more raw place than Tyler was.

    Again, Tyler is a knuckleball. You don't know for sure how he'll impact the game. Sometimes his energy catches the opponent off guard, gets them on their heels and turns the game. Other times he just trainwrecks the offense with a couple of misses and an offensive foul or two. I don't think you can pay him $4m with that level of unreliability.

    Certainly if Ian doesn't improve his hands then his contract might look problematic as well but its too soon to evaluate that. And if Ian becomes more reliable and you were paying Tyler maybe $2m then that works as a great bench. But that's just not where things are right now.


    One problem with Tyler's FTAs is that he doesn't draw them like most scorers do. He doesn't beat guys with some great offensive move that begins to demand double teams and general attention, which would make him a guy you can focus the offense around. Tyler is getting a lot of his foul calls on loose ball scrums which come on broken plays, missed shots, etc. So while it's helpful it again is unpredictable and not something you can plan around.

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