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Thread: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    This topic was brought up in another thread. The suggestion was that the Pacers just need to go back to winning with class. I found that rather strange because here is how they used to win.

    Please define "winning with class" What does that mean.

    Hitting threes and glaring at the opponents bench. Hitting threes and getting into with the courtside fans. Hitting threes and grabbing your crotch. Beating your archrivals and screaming "chokers".

    Reggie did all those things in games the Pacers won. So is that winning with class.

    Please explain.

    My point is before we suggest the Pacers need to go back and win with class "like they used to" lets remember the way it was.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Originally Posted by sixthman
    I am not ashamed of the Indiana Pacers as a group or individually. Some of the young guys do need to better learn the ways of the world, but I think we have a good group of guys and what others think doesn't matter.

    What is important now is that when these guys get back together as a team, they need to go on a mission making the team more important than individual success. I think there is a chance that will happen. The best way to get the last laugh is to win and win with class. I think we can and will do that.


    I think you are mis-characterizing sixthmans post. At no point in there do I read where he said going back to winning with class. It says get back together as a team & go on a mission.

    I even went back & re-read my post to it to see if I accidently said go back to winning with class.

    I think your all upset over nothing on this one.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    One Mission is my sig

    see
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Oops - forgot I had more to say.

    I don't necessarily think we always won with class. Particularly in the past "couple of years". But I do think the Pacers have always been regarded as a class organization.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    I am not upset at all. I think many of us forget what some Pacer players did in the past. This is more for those who think the pacers franchise was so pure and clean until Artest arrived

  6. #6

    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    I may have been one of those who used that language.

    You make a good point. The Pacers have never played with John Wooden's stoic attitude and some of Reggie's histrionics had to be seen as pretty bush league, especially if you were not a Pacers fan.

    However, I think the Pacers are good enough now, and the setting is such, that the time is right for these guys, when they get back together, to just go out and get the job done without a lot of baiting and histrionics regarding referees and other players. That's the best way they can get even and the best way to restore their own personal images.

    By the way, the image haven't been tarnished with me in the slightest. I love these guys, warts and all. And, by and large, I think they have represented the Pacers very well, anyway.

    But let's face it, the image has probably taken a beating with most casual fans. I don't know how important that is anyway. One thing for sure: More people than ever are going to be following the Pacers and the team has undoubedly moved up the pecking order in desirability for boob tube exposure. As the Pacers make a run for the playoffs, I think national attention on the Pacers could be much improved. So: we need to play well and we need to play with a purpose.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I am not upset at all. I think many of us forget what some Pacer players did in the past. This is more for those who think the pacers franchise was so pure and clean until Artest arrived
    But the premise of your post is that somebody (sixthman) said that we need to go back to winning with class. He didn't say that. I've already quoted above what he did say.

    If you wanna go ahead & make the topic about did we always win with class then that is a differant topic.

    The answer is depends. Yes, I know that is gutless but it's a true statement.

    We only really ever won anything in the mid to late 90's so we can only go by their actions. So, no Reggie Miller did not always win with class & dignity. I used to gripe about him all of the time on the starnews board.

    However, there were people were players during that time frame that did express winning with class. Rik Smits never gloated over anybody. Satan to the best of my memory mocked nobody other than me. It could be argued that Jackson sometimes had a little bit if uncouthness in him with that dumb cross he made. Both Tony & Dale I thought were pretty classy in victory.

    Now you are gonna have to go ask ABAdays about the ABA days cause I was to young. But anything I've ever heard about back then tells me that Roger Brown was the essence of class. Same for Mel & Big Mac.

    So overall, yes as a franchise we have won with class.

    However our franchise player has not always done that.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    To me, the casual fans only care about winning teams. As long as the team is winning, people will forget all that.

    The Stockton/Malone Utah team was one of the dirtiest teams in the history of NBA, but the team was successful. So whenever people talk about that team, is them playing dirty being the first thing in casual fans' mind? No. People only remember how good that team was. So as the Knicks in the 90s, people only remember their great defense but not them being dirty.

    I'm not saying we should not care about class, but I think at the end of the day, once the Pacers is winning again, or winning it all, people will forget about the whole thing.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    It's interesting Wooden was brought up. You hardly ever saw him on the bench without a rolled up piece of paper. Rumor had it he would make disparaging remarks to other player about "not belonging on the same floor with his player". Rumors, of course but interesting.

    Look, every team in every era has had it's times when it didn't win with class. But, I think the sum total is what is representative of an organization. I think the Pacers have always been regarding as "class" in that vein.

    Shoot, the guy who could probably talk more trash than any of the players in the ABA days was Slick. Daniels was one of the great battlers in the history of the game so I'm sure he had his "say". I do think Roger Brown was one of the classiest guys in the game. I think he was truly thankful for his second chance and acted accordingly.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by NewType
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    To me, the casual fans only care about winning teams. As long as the team is winning, people will forget all that.

    The Stockton/Malone Utah team was one of the dirtiest teams in the history of NBA, but the team was successful. So whenever people talk about that team, is them playing dirty being the first thing in casual fans' mind? No. People only remember how good that team was. So as the Knicks in the 90s, people only remember their great defense but not them being dirty.

    I'm not saying we should not care about class, but I think at the end of the day, once the Pacers is winning again, or winning it all, people will forget about the whole thing.

    No casual fan ever talks about the Jazz.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Early in Reggie's career, many of us thought he was just a loudmouthed hotdog.

    It took him six or seven years to start to back it up.

    For every time Reggie did something boorish or less-than-perfect, he made up for it by showing class in so many other ways. The bowling event, visiting kids at Riley, representing his country on national teams more than once. Just because he wasn't perfect, and he occasionally displayed less class than he should have, doesn't make him or the Pacers un-classy.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    For every time Reggie did something boorish or less-than-perfect, he made up for it by showing class in so many other ways. The bowling event, visiting kids at Riley, representing his country on national teams more than once. Just because he wasn't perfect, and he occasionally displayed less class than he should have, doesn't make him or the Pacers un-classy.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. Finally someone said what I wanted someone to say. You are 100% correct. And that is why Kravitz comments bothered me and painting with a broad brush really bothers me.

    We really don't know the players guys except what we see on the court, and it bothers me for people to draw conclusions about what the players are like in private by their public actions.

    Thanks Jay

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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    ....By the way, the image haven't been tarnished with me in the slightest. I love these guys, warts and all. And, by and large, I think they have represented the Pacers very well, anyway.

    But let's face it, the image has probably taken a beating with most casual fans. I don't know how important that is anyway. One thing for sure: More people than ever are going to be following the Pacers and the team has undoubedly moved up the pecking order in desirability for boob tube exposure. As the Pacers make a run for the playoffs, I think national attention on the Pacers could be much improved. So: we need to play well and we need to play with a purpose.
    Word... and good points....

    Yeah the poor NBA had its image "tarnished" ... The image of pro sports and athletes has been tarnished for years... at worst this reconfirmed to those who already felt this way about athletes and sports ....but it also peaked the interest of the everyday person and media who don't normally follow or lost interest in basketball.... this at least shows players and fans still have some passion and sense of rivalry.

    If you watch the brawl tape... you can see big smiles on everyones face from the press row up into the stands... people eat this **** up....only after Ron got hit and went into to the stands did you see any concern or fear come across anyones face.

    I don't know who determines what playoff games get shown on national TV and such....but what is Stern and the NBA gonna do when/if the Pacers vs. Pistons series is on.... relegate it to NBATV... when it could garner some of the highest ratings (advertising dollars) in years. Don't tell me that companies would feel morally obligated to not advertise... in fear of their product being associated with the NBA... where the consumer eyeballs are focused... they will come... checks in hand.

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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    You're still misinterpreting Kravitz, and his article today confirmed what I thought his comments yesterday meant. He isn't saying Ron is a bad person, bad father, or bad husbad. He's saying Ron's actions paint a negative light on the city and franchise no matter how good of people everyone else invovled is, something that's hard to deny given the backlash of his most recent action.
    I agree with UB, myself and Btown.

    Huh?

    I read that column the same way Btown did - I just stood in line at the Union Station Corner Bakery behind two guys that were basically intimating that Indianapolis must be as bad of a place as Detroit for harboring/ encouraging/ cheering for these criminals. I think they're wrong, and if I were more aggressive with complete strangers I would've butted into their conversation, but I'm not sure that would have helped the matter any.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #15
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Btown and Jay. I guess I am using Kravitz comment that perhaps I misinterpreted to make a larger point.

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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I agree with UB, myself and Btown.

    Huh?

    I read that column the same way Btown did - I just stood in line at the Union Station Corner Bakery behind two guys that were basically intimating that Indianapolis must be as bad of a place as Detroit for harboring/ encouraging/ cheering for these criminals. I think they're wrong, and if I were more aggressive with complete strangers I would've butted into their conversation, but I'm not sure that would have helped the matter any.
    I hear alot of Artest bashing here in LA too from people I overhear talking about sports.

    At first I really hated Kravitz for all the negative things he says about Artest. But I'm starting to think he might be right. I still like Artest alot, but he has a strong negative impact on the franchise. At work all I here is about Artest is a headcase. When I go to the gym, I hear people make comments like "at least the Lakers aren't a team of Ron Artests". Not all of this negative spin is Artests fault. The media blows things up and makes their own spin, but Artest has done enough wrong things to set himself up for it. I know Artest has improved his attitude and his ball game in the last 3 years, but the damage has been done. It is just too difficult to shake that "headcase" persona when you have a few incidents each year. "Having conduct detrimental to the integrity of the team" is not good. I don't really blame him for the melee, but it terms of PR damage, this was as bad as it gets.

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I agree with UB, myself and Btown.

    Huh?

    I read that column the same way Btown did - I just stood in line at the Union Station Corner Bakery behind two guys that were basically intimating that Indianapolis must be as bad of a place as Detroit for harboring/ encouraging/ cheering for these criminals. I think they're wrong, and if I were more aggressive with complete strangers I would've butted into their conversation, but I'm not sure that would have helped the matter any.
    Uh, this nonsense coming from the city that attacked a base coach and rioted in the stands after stealing a player's cap??????
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  18. #18
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    This may be the first (and last) time I've ever said this: its too bad I don't know anything about baseball.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #19
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Winning with class" did Pacers used to always win with class

    Oh, and they showered thier own quarterback with beer after a game this season. Not sure if that helps or hurts thier case.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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