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Thread: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Big JO fan here, but consider the source. He also said he was going to dominate.
    One of those statements is a belief in his talent, and one is talking about being recognized when he travels. They're not related statements. Unless you're saying that since he said "I'm going to dominate" then had a series of injury riddled seasons, he's now a pathological liar. The truth is, it's not that important whether he's recognized or not. It's really a non-issue.

    I think a bigger issue is that people keep bringing up that a past belief that he would return to all-star form is somehow a negative. As if the article in the original post doesn't quote O'Neal as saying he likes Phoenix because he's having fun playing there, in that environment.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 12-30-2012 at 03:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Seeing JO back here as a shell of a shell of his former self would just be really weird for me. He'd get plenty of DNPCD's. Assuming the money's right I'd welcome it with open arms, but I don't hold any sentimentality towards him. I wish him well and everything, happy to see him doing well in Phoenix, but I've never understood this "sign a 1 day contract [which don't exist in the NBA] and retire an X." Who cares? Edgerrin James will always be remembered as a Colt, both Davises will always be remembered as Pacers. I just honestly don't get it, business is business, maybe it's callous I guess but you can't let sentimentality play into front office decisions.
    It's all about legacy for him. He wants to come back here because at the end of it all he (IMO) believes he will/could/should have his number retired by the team. I imagine he has given up any HOF thoughts at this point in time so the only thing left for him is the team he had the most notariety with give him his night.

    That is why he is always so obsessed with talking about coming back to Indiana. When Bird was here I had 100% confidence that this would never occur. Walsh is another matter however. Reports indicate that he was no more thrilled with J.O. after the Isiah incident than what Bird was but Donnie has always been a little more forgiving.


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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    It got quite a bit of press at the time, too, and fans were upset about it and told their ticket reps about it from what I was told at the time by my ticket rep, Eddie Bird.
    Haha ..good old Eddie Bird..... Larry's younger brother.... Reminds me of a story to share with PD...

    Funny story... I had just started going out with this hot chick back when I was a senior in high school. One weekend, she was to be staying with her cousin who lived somewhere in deep in Indy.. (can't remember where exactly, it's been so long) Anyways, her cousin and cousin's roommates at the time were gonna be in King's Island that whole weekend thus leaving her there with the whole house to herself all weekend house-sitting...So she had me come down and stay both Friday and Saturday night with her...So anyways here it is like 1am, and time for bed... and i'm gonna get lucky except for the fact that I hadn't brought any condoms with me.. (because I hadn't presumed I'd be getting lucky if ya know what I mean).. So I ended up spending like an hour and a half driving around a very unfamiliar area in a suburb of indy looking for somehwere to buy condoms.. cause everywhere was closed , not a convenience store in sight within at least a 5 mile radius...(keep in mind it was dark outside and I didnt know really where anything was.) So finally, the only place I could find anything was in a filling station's bathroom which had one of those machines.. which was good except for the fact that all I had was a $50 and a couple $20 bills on me, let alone specifically the 2 quarters that the machine required per condom dispensed.. LOL .. I ended up having to dig and dig through my car... So after totally ransacking through my vehicle like the police in a drug search/stop, I managed to find 2 crusty, nasty looking quarters that I otherwise wouldn't have found had I not literally lifted and taken my whole backseat out from the car to find them... LMAO...(ah the things us young men will go through for some action from the opposite sex lol).. So in conclusion, after an hour and a half/2 hours of driving around, getting lost,in my search, I finally get back to the house.. So after things getting a little hot and heavy on the couch I was told..."we can't do this here , Eddie would kick my a** if we messed up his brand new couch..!" I'm like "whaa? Eddie? her roomate? meh who cares, we wont mess it up. " So yea, afterwards later while going to the kitchen to get us somethin to eat, she walked me over to some framed pictures over on this shelf.. and there they were, pictures of Eddie and Larry together next to each other.... along with another picture which was of Eddie in his Indiana State uni..

    I'm like "Eddie-freakin-Bird?!?! Are you serious?! THAT'S the Eddie you were talking about?!?

    I was kinda in shock because being a big Larry Bird fan, I obviously followed his lil brother when he played for the Sycamores ... so I was kinda in a stupor .. LOL

    Apparently it was actually Eddies' house, and her cousin was one of his roommates...

    So I actually can say I had coitus in Eddie Bird's house, on his new couch at that... hahaha

    crazy huh?
    Last edited by Kemo; 12-30-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    There was an ongoing story line of Kobe and JO conspiring to get him traded to LA over one summer when he still was the second best player on the Pacers despite having come in 3rd in the MVP voting. I suspect that the bad taste that would have left in the mouths of the powers that were (who were upset at the time) is ultimately why there may still be little interest in having him come back here even at this point. It got quite a bit of press at the time, too, and fans were upset about it and told their ticket reps about it from what I was told at the time by my ticket rep, Eddie Bird.
    I remember that. From what I recall, though, the LA media drove that as much as anything. There was tons of "get the best big man to play with Kobe" going on, just like it always does. Walsh said he wouldn't trade Jermaine for anybody except Bynum, and that was that. I don't remember much that would look like Jermaine "conspiring" to go to LA.
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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Im looking forward to J'O retiring at this point. anyone else tired of the "JO's heart is in Indiana"

    this is a business, ask the nuggets or magic. I want this organization to represent championship banners not player banners. the brawl was a black eye on this organization and the talk of hanging #7 in the rafters is just rediculous. if O'neal had rebounded from the brawl by carrying this organization back to elite status then it could be considered.

    Smits, Dale Davis, Jeff Foster.. are all guys i would consider before O'neal. These players gave more to the organization imo.

    Thanks JO for landing us HIbbs.. enjoy retirement in PHX.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    If we really wanted to do something like that, could we trade Pendergraft for JO and give them both a chance to accomplish something? JO could play for us for the renainder of the season(with the agreement to retire, of course) and Pendy could take the few minutes JO gets with the Suns.

    I highly doubt the Suns trade JO for Pendergraph. JO is producing and Pendergraph is sitting at the end of the bench. Why would the Suns make a straight up trade? The Suns have no reason to do it as they obviously have the better more productive player.

    Why would the Pacers sweeten the deal to get JO as well, when they can just sign him in the off season.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Could be. But I'll suggest that JO to the Pacers didn't happen (yet) because of a combo of 2 things: 1) we actually had money to spend for a long term backup C, so we were looking at more expensive options (i.e. Mahinmi at 4 years $16m). And 2) prior to this season, JO looked done. He's having a nice comeback season though, maybe due to Phoenix's miracle medical staff.

    Next year when we're looking to fill the bench (seems doubtful that we'd re-sign both THans and Pendy), you'd think we'd give JO another look. He's cheap, he wants to be here, and he'll have proven that he still has some gas left in the tank.

    #3 As long as Bird was in the FO JO was never going to be a Pacer again.

    IIRC, Walsh had a good relationship with JO, so maybe there is a possibility of JO being able to come back next season. It can't be overlooked JO would be cheap, an experienced vet, productive if he's healthy, and was a fan favorite who still has supporters.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Seeing JO back here as a shell of a shell of his former self would just be really weird for me. He'd get plenty of DNPCD's. Assuming the money's right I'd welcome it with open arms, but I don't hold any sentimentality towards him. I wish him well and everything, happy to see him doing well in Phoenix, but I've never understood this "sign a 1 day contract [which don't exist in the NBA] and retire an X." Who cares? Edgerrin James will always be remembered as a Colt, both Davises will always be remembered as Pacers. I just honestly don't get it, business is business, maybe it's callous I guess but you can't let sentimentality play into front office decisions.
    REALLY?

    What do you call Foster's contract last year? I call it 3 plus mil of sentimentality and loyalty by the FO/Bird to a injured player who couldn't even make it thru the season w/o having to retire.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I remember that. From what I recall, though, the LA media drove that as much as anything. There was tons of "get the best big man to play with Kobe" going on, just like it always does. Walsh said he wouldn't trade Jermaine for anybody except Bynum, and that was that. I don't remember much that would look like Jermaine "conspiring" to go to LA.

    Walsh wanted Bynum in the worst way. At one time both Bynum and Odom were being asked for in the deal. Lakers owner's son was in love with Bynum and wouldn't let him be traded. IIRC, Odom stated he wouldn't play for the Pacers as well.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Well, that's true. I was thinking in terms of getting the swap done this season and getting it over with. Having had time to think about it, I agree with you and other posters, too. JO had his chance to retire as a Pacer AND have his jersey retired. He is the one who demanded a trade, IIRC. Made your bed, sleep in it and shut up.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    Well, that's true. I was thinking in terms of getting the swap done this season and getting it over with. Having had time to think about it, I agree with you and other posters, too. JO had his chance to retire as a Pacer AND have his jersey retired. He is the one who demanded a trade, IIRC. Made your bed, sleep in it and shut up.
    Even if he did ask to be traded...what we had been doing over the previous two years had been to replace our "bad guy" players with less productive, more expensive models. I don't think I would fault somebody not wanting to play out his contract next to albatross contracts that might as well stay on the offensive ned of the court. for 48 minutes.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    JO had his chance to retire as a Pacer AND have his jersey retired. He is the one who demanded a trade, IIRC. Made your bed, sleep in it and shut up.
    I don't think that's true. Please provide a link showing he demanded a trade.
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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't think that's true. Please provide a link showing he demanded a trade.
    The most he did if IIRC is make this statement:

    "I think they are about to rebuild. I'm not sure; we're supposed to meet after the draft again. If that's the case, I would prefer to not go through a rebuilding stage."

    http://www.indycornrows.com/2008/5/3...eal-is-talking
    Source: Indy Cornrows

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Jermaine O'Neal is a very ambiguous player in team history. This is my opinion: we should forgive the mistakes he made, and honor him as one of the greatest players in team history. He was certainly not the greatest, but he was certainly great.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    He does seem genuine though when he talks about his fondness of the Pacers and Indy. I don't doubt that he has a special place in his heart for the city and organization.
    If talking was an Olympic sport JO would be a multiple gold medal winner.

    Let him dominate retirement some place else.
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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    REALLY?

    What do you call Foster's contract last year? I call it 3 plus mil of sentimentality and loyalty by the FO/Bird to a injured player who couldn't even make it thru the season w/o having to retire.
    I call it a mistake. I don't see how that's related to anything I said.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Some people and their grudges.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Nope, I don't remember that at all.

    I know what you're talking about, but that's not what went down. It's been debated on this board about a billion times, and I'm sure I won't change your mind with this post. But for the record, I disagree.
    How do you remember it? I remember the offense being changed and after 7-9 games it was reported that JO and Rick had a loud disagreement in the coaches office at an away game (I think Dallas, which is weird) and after it they (the Pacers) went back into the dump-it-to-JO Offense everyone griped about.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How do you remember it? I remember the offense being changed and after 7-9 games it was reported that JO and Rick had a loud disagreement in the coaches office at an away game (I think Dallas, which is weird) and after it they (the Pacers) went back into the dump-it-to-JO Offense everyone griped about.
    I remember them changing his touches from high post to low post, but not really getting him any more touches. It was a long time ago to remember though.

  27. #70

    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Id be willing to guess JO signs for minimum this summer just to come back. He would have to agree to accept whatever role they decide he earns.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    We don't know, fully. I wasn't there. But what we do know is what DIDN'T happen. Jermaine's touches didn't go up. Go back and look at the game logs. Carlisle didn't de-emphasize Jermaine on offense. Actually Jermaine's shots per game went (slightly) down after this supposed blow-up.

    When you look at the shot charts, Jermaine did end up shooting slightly fewer long jumpers after the "confrontation," and slightly more inside shots. But nothing drastic changed with our offense. We still went to Jermaine, just like we already did. My guess is that it was (multiple) guys blowing off steam in the locker room after a bad loss.

    As for what wore down Jermaine's body, it's no secret. Jermaine's injury problems came from two things: Carrying too much weight (he felt he had to bulk up after Brad Miller left), and playing all summer long for multiple summers in a row (representing the USA in at least three different World Championships). Heck, you can even hear Peck talk about it here:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...-O-Neal-theory

    Jermaine's biggest sin was that he wasn't enough of a leader to keep Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, and Jamaal Tinsley in line. It's hard for me to hate the guy for that.
    At the time or sometime shortly after in one of the debates I did a pretty heavy analysis and showed that he didn't get more touches, what he got was more low post touches vs high post touches. In some ways his MESSAGE was probably on point, that what they were trying to do wasn't working very well and he was having trouble with it.

    Frankly given Rick's preferred mode of interaction, which is typically "distant" intellectualism (see his campaign for Ron as DPoY, all stats), I think JO could have made a less emotional appeal to Rick and made a sound case which would have resulted in a similar strategy adjustment. But the fact is that JO was not good at handling stuff like that which is probably what amplified his interactions with Ron as well.

    JO has always had a tinge of "baby/prima donna" to him, which does NOT CONTRADICT his toughness. Him taking those FTs in a regular season game just so they wouldn't have to lose him for the rest of the game just in case his torn shoulder was just mildly hurt said world's about his toughness. He could have said "I can't shoot them or play the rest of this game tonight", and lots of guys would have. Instead he took 2 one handed shots with the thought that somehow he was going to be ready to play some more in 20-30 minutes despite having a 2 month injury at it's most painful.

    Ron, JO and Jackson all have similar "mixed" personalities where you can clearly see very positive, driven, competitive aspects in their personality, the kind of stuff that makes you a winner. But all 3 also have ego issues, chips on the shoulder that make them overreact emotionally which ruins most of their positives. If they could have learned to accept themselves more, or accept the idea that others appreciated them fully, then I think they could have weathered the hard times with much cooler heads than they did.

    If you are JO or Ron and you know that everyone thinks you are critical, then you don't get bent out of shape over the touches the other guy is getting. When you worry about that stuff it suggests you think that without those touches others will think less of you. It fits right in line with the TRUST debate we had going on elsewhere the other day.

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    Default Re: Pacers notebook: Jermaine O'Neal is a Pacer at heart

    I wasn't trying to say that he got less touches, or more touches, just that he wasn't even willing to give the change 10 games. I'm a huge RC fan, so I'm obviously partial, but if your star can't even buy in for 10 games, if he's not getting his way, then that spells trouble.

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