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Thread: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I suppose he can dribble.
    I would argue that one too. Did you see him dribble off his own leg one-on-one? Lol. Horrendous

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    I would argue that one too. Did you see him dribble off his own leg one-on-one? Lol. Horrendous
    I think the problem with Augustin is that he's used to more space. He consistently beats his man off the dribble. But where in the past he's had a step and a half to regain his balance and prep for a shot or pass, he instead has a post player's help defender right there to beat as well. His 1 in, 4 out PnRs with Mahinmi look good, but otherwise he just looks ill adusted.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I understand Roy cleaned the glass last night, but there are only two NBA teams worse than Phoenix on the boards. Against an average team, his boards go down to 8. He is key to our defense in every game though, so I agree we are getting something out of him. But he is our all-star max player folks. He's got to bring more than defense.
    He also brings rebounding along with his defense and couples those with solid passing skills.

    Roy's rebounding often gets underestimated. Why? Because it mainly comes on the offensive side and it often results in missed tips. But he is averaging 3.9 offensive boards per game. That's good for 6th in the league. Only Anderson Varejao, Zach Randolph, Tyson Chandler, JJ Hickson and Kenneth Faried average more offensive rebounds per game. And everyone of those players averages more than 10 RPG.

    Hibbert's rebounding numbers are low because he doesn't get a lot of defensive rebounds. Why, you ask?

    Let me explain it a bit:

    1) Hibbert is averaging 2.8 blocks per game. He is #3 in the league behind Larry Sanders (3 blocks per game) and Serge Ibaka (3.1 blocks per game). As we all know when a player jumps for a block he rarely ends up with the defensive board.

    2) Paul George is averaging 7 rebounds per game. He is tied for #6 in the league among SFs along with Luol Deng. 6.1 of those 7 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball. He is #4 in defensive rebounds behind Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Kenneth Faried. Yes, he is up there with the elite of SFs that mostly play PF anyway when it comes to defensive rebounding. Paul is a beast on defensive boards and we all know it.

    3) Lance Stephenson is averaging 3.1 rebounds per game. He is tied for #17 in the league among SGs. 2.7 of those 3.1 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball.

    4) George Hill is averaging 4.4 rebounds per game. He is tied for #3 in the league along with Stephen Curry, Jason Kidd and Greivis Vasquez. Only Russel Westbrook and Rajon Rondo are better rebounders than George Hill. 3.9 of those 4.4 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball. He is tied for #2 along with Greivis Vasquez second only to Rajon Rondo's 4.1 defensive rebounds per game.

    5) David West is averaging 8.1 rebounds per game. He is tied for #8 in the league along with LaMarcus Aldridge and Reggie Evans. 5.9 of those 8.1 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball. He is #9 in defensive rebounding among PFs.

    6) Last but not least, the Pacers are #2 in defensive rebounding in the league.

    So, to recap:

    George Hill is a top 3 rebounder for a PG. Paul George is a top 10 rebounder for a SF overall and top 5 in defensive rebounds. David West is a top 10 for his position as well. Lance Stephenson is #17 and most of his rebounds are defensive ones. The Pacers themselves are #2 in defensive rebounding.

    Couple that with the fact that Hibbert is mainly used as a shot blocker and rim protector and one can easily understand why he is not getting as many defensive rebounds as he could.

    PS: I'm using ESPN's leaderboard for the rankings. Therefore, I'm not including players that are not qualified for the leaderboard. Some of those players (like Kyle Lowry and Kevin Love for example) would be higher than our players if they played more game. But that doesn't change the fact that every Pacer starter is an excellent rebounder.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Let me give thanks to the Indiana Pacers for the $12/12/12 deal. It allowed me and my family an enjoyable Pacers experience during the holidays. Can't wait to attend again on Monday.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhound80 View Post
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    My thoughts after attending last night's game.
    Roy is beyond awful. He is horrible with his back to the basket. Hit only the backboard on a swinging left hand hook (his left hand isn't injured) Got snuffed by Jermaine then fell down, then got 3 sec. call.
    Should not have been in the game the last 6 min although I think Frank wanted him to protect the basket
    Lance was awesome!! Should have had a double-double but DROPPED his 10th rebound. AHH! I was so upset because he deserved it!!
    Hill was terrific. I am worried about his thigh injury tonight. I bet it feels a lot worse today.
    Mahinmi played very well too! Roy better be careful.
    Paul George needs to watch film on Kobe, Michael, Larry, Magic, etc. You're our best player dude. You can't stand around in crunch time. Didn't work hard enough to get open. I know we were running iso's for West. OK, then crash the damn boards or something.
    ***Something Brian Shaw hopefully addresses**** HEAD HANGING!!! As a former player, he needs to talk to Lance and Green about this. The other team sees this right away. Lance hung his head like a 7th grader when he missed those FT's. Yes, it was disappointing but he had played too well to get down on himself.
    The other time, Gerald wanted the ball on the rt. wing. Point gd just couldn't get it to him. Gerald put his head down and walked to the corner. Suns stole the ball and he didn't even know it because he had his head down like a upset child. Inexcusable. The guy isn't very bright.

    At any rate, we'll see how good we really are over the next couple weeks.
    I was at the game too and while Roy's rebounds look good on paper they were for the most part easy rebounds. Roy looks slow and tired and he made JO look like he was 25 again. Lance made up for DJs shortcomings at the 1. Why Tyler did not get more time was not clear. He had the juices flowing last night.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    Let me give thanks to the Indiana Pacers for the $12/12/12 deal. It allowed me and my family an enjoyable Pacers experience during the holidays. Can't wait to attend again on Monday.
    The Pacers also had a great "End of the World" deal that allowed me to get good club seats relatively cheap.
    Everybody ride the Scola train! WHOO WHOO

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  12. #57
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by DangerGranger3pointranger View Post
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    The Pacers also had a great "End of the World" deal that allowed me to get good club seats relatively cheap.
    What, did we extend JOB again that night?
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    Not really nothing. Offensively yeah most games we get under 10 ppg. But defensively he is providing a hell of a lot. Every time he leaves the court we lose a lot of defense.
    Totally agree. Roy drives me mad with his offfensive head case every season, but, if I had to choose between 15ppg and the blocked/altered shots that Roy causes, I'd take the later. Roy alters shots the Mutumbo did, not by blocking them but by making the shooter change the shot to get it away from him.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    Totally agree. Roy drives me mad with his offfensive head case every season, but, if I had to choose between 15ppg and the blocked/altered shots that Roy causes, I'd take the later. Roy alters shots the Mutumbo did, not by blocking them but by making the shooter change the shot to get it away from him.
    Yes. He is a critical piece to the defense and a lot of my reaction is pure frustration. I see the skills and it drives me crazy he's not dominating on offense. I always believed that was a huge strength of his. He has a baby soft touch and, while not athletic, he is long and seems fundamentally sound. Duncan-esque sound. Then you have times last year where he looked unstoppable and expect some growth the next year.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Is it possible that 10 years from now, we'll look back at the 2010 draft as one of the all time best for us?

    Very, very excited about the future for both Lance and Paul.

    Also, there's no way that we're anywhere close to best defense in the NBA without Hibbert, either. He changed the outcomes of so many Suns possessions last night. Rewatch the game and see for yourself. Offense would be awesome gravy on top, but I like what he's bringing on the other side of the posessions.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    I am pretty sure he meant offensively. It's common thing now whenever we say "Roy sucked tonight", we mean on the offensive end. He got blocked by JO's corpse last night.

    Defensively he has been nothing short of a beast but unfortunately on the other end, most of the time, he stinks. Here is hoping he will consistently find his touch soon. And no i don't mean by saying that, he will start scoring 25 ppg.
    Clearly who haven't heard of the Sun's training staff. What they call the Cryo-Chamber, but really it's a cover for them having found the fountain of youth.

    And JO is averaging 1.5blocks/game in 17min of play. Pretty damn good.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We have the NBA right where we want them: Unassuming, playing sneakily well, and awaiting the return of arguably our best player. We will be a dangerous team come playoff time.
    But I thought that just a month and a half ago...the Pacers foundation were as sturdy as a house of cards.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-29-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    But I thought that just a month and a half ago...the Pacers foundation were as sturdy as a house of cards.
    You're only as good as your last game

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    He also brings rebounding along with his defense and couples those with solid passing skills.

    Roy's rebounding often gets underestimated. Why? Because it mainly comes on the offensive side and it often results in missed tips. But he is averaging 3.9 offensive boards per game. That's good for 6th in the league. Only Anderson Varejao, Zach Randolph, Tyson Chandler, JJ Hickson and Kenneth Faried average more offensive rebounds per game. And everyone of those players averages more than 10 RPG.

    Hibbert's rebounding numbers are low because he doesn't get a lot of defensive rebounds. Why, you ask?

    Let me explain it a bit:

    1) Hibbert is averaging 2.8 blocks per game. He is #3 in the league behind Larry Sanders (3 blocks per game) and Serge Ibaka (3.1 blocks per game). As we all know when a player jumps for a block he rarely ends up with the defensive board.

    2) Paul George is averaging 7 rebounds per game. He is tied for #6 in the league among SFs along with Luol Deng. 6.1 of those 7 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball. He is #4 in defensive rebounds behind Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Kenneth Faried. Yes, he is up there with the elite of SFs that mostly play PF anyway when it comes to defensive rebounding. Paul is a beast on defensive boards and we all know it.

    3) Lance Stephenson is averaging 3.1 rebounds per game. He is tied for #17 in the league among SGs. 2.7 of those 3.1 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball.

    4) George Hill is averaging 4.4 rebounds per game. He is tied for #3 in the league along with Stephen Curry, Jason Kidd and Greivis Vasquez. Only Russel Westbrook and Rajon Rondo are better rebounders than George Hill. 3.9 of those 4.4 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball. He is tied for #2 along with Greivis Vasquez second only to Rajon Rondo's 4.1 defensive rebounds per game.

    5) David West is averaging 8.1 rebounds per game. He is tied for #8 in the league along with LaMarcus Aldridge and Reggie Evans. 5.9 of those 8.1 rebounds come on the defensive side of the ball. He is #9 in defensive rebounding among PFs.

    6) Last but not least, the Pacers are #2 in defensive rebounding in the league.

    So, to recap:

    George Hill is a top 3 rebounder for a PG. Paul George is a top 10 rebounder for a SF overall and top 5 in defensive rebounds. David West is a top 10 for his position as well. Lance Stephenson is #17 and most of his rebounds are defensive ones. The Pacers themselves are #2 in defensive rebounding.

    Couple that with the fact that Hibbert is mainly used as a shot blocker and rim protector and one can easily understand why he is not getting as many defensive rebounds as he could.

    PS: I'm using ESPN's leaderboard for the rankings. Therefore, I'm not including players that are not qualified for the leaderboard. Some of those players (like Kyle Lowry and Kevin Love for example) would be higher than our players if they played more game. But that doesn't change the fact that every Pacer starter is an excellent rebounder.
    The reason they the Pacers can and probably will get beat on the boards in the playoffs is once you're going up against good teams it becomes more than just a numbers game. The Pacers are good on the boards it is true, but they should be able to punish smaller teams such as the Heat on the boards. They can't.

    Both of those reasons involve Roy Hibbert and David West. West is 30th among PF's in rebounds per 48. He plays a lot of minutes but his numbers on the boards don't show it. He truly is not a strong rebounder. Roy as you noted is good on the offensive boards but weaker on the defensive boards. I don't think this would be a problem at all if we had sort of an "anchor" on the boards at PF. But we don't.

    Now the rest of the team does rebound well, but come playoff time in a the last 5 minutes when the Heat, Boston, or maybe Atlanta are desperate for extra possessions, guys like LBJ, KG, and Josh Smith will NOT be denied on the offensive boards. This will be a reoccurring problem.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Postgame Thread 12/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Now the rest of the team does rebound well, but come playoff time in a the last 5 minutes when the Heat, Boston, or maybe Atlanta are desperate for extra possessions, guys like LBJ, KG, and Josh Smith will NOT be denied on the offensive boards. This will be a reoccurring problem.
    I guess that we can wait and see. Tonight seems like a good test
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