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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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which Pacer will be on the all star team?

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  • #16
    Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

    Paul's time will come, but not yet. IMO, no Pacer will be an all-star this year.

    West and Paul are close, but there is just too much competition. Mello, Bron and Pierce keep Paul out. West may be closer, but Bosh and Garnett will get more votes. Boozer may even get more votes. Big markets baby.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

      IMO, there are 8 locks: Rondo, Wade, LeBron, Melo, Chandler, Bosh, Pierce, and Noah.

      There's no way 2 Cavs make it, and if one does it'll be Varejao. Irving was out about 3 to 4 weeks. Plus there record is awful, and coaches don't like to vote in all-stars from bad teams.

      I think Smith is a pseudo-lock. Atlanta's been a surprise, and Smith's been snubbed a couple of times, so I think he'll make it.

      Holiday has a good chance as well.

      But you know what you can do, Pacer fans. Stuff the ballot box for Chris Bosh. Right now, Kevin Garnett is 3rd in the frontcourt voting. And he's taking someone's spot if he gets voted in (the Celtics won't get 3 all-stars). And that spot could be Paul George's or David West's. But Bosh is close enough that a last minute push could get him in the starting lineup.

      I do think a Pacer will make it. I think it'll be Paul George, mainly because of position.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        Well I put all my thoughts on this subject in the "When will PG become a star" thread. I don't think Rondo or Irving are locks. I understand Rondo's history, but his team is headed down and I don't know if his assists are enough to cover that. Irving is young and dynamic, but the Cavs aren't winning enough and definitely wouldn't put two guys on the squad.

        To me what happens is that when it comes to AS time many Pacers fans focus on A) fan vote rankings and B) the star power from other teams. What gets forgotten is that the bench isn't chosen by fans, and that with their wins the Pacers do have some status within the ranks of other teams (coaches, scouts, GMs). And those people in turn recognize HOW the Pacers are winning just like Pacers fans think about how Irving helps CLE or Rondo helps BOS.

        You get complacent in seeing what West or Paul do every night, and get amazed by what good players on other teams (or Sportscenter) do in their 10 seconds of highlights.

        Even now we have some (not all) posters around the forum (not really in this thread yet, too new and short) that talk up the star power of DWill or Johnson or Irving or Rondo, but forget what stuff like Paul's near monster tomahawk posterization look like to non-Pacers fans. He's had a nice run of very spectacular plays, as well as monster defense and outstanding 3pt shooting. What he is doing since Oakland is what a superstar looks like, period. There isn't really another level other than super-elite HOF stuff like Lebron and Kobe.

        And West's offense has been similar. Classic all-star unstoppable scoring machine in the post.

        Right now there are Celtics fans that would trade the aging Pierce to get Paul, even with PP scoring better at the moment. They see where things are headed and what PG has become. And I think it's safe to say that a ton of Nets fans would love to swap out Johnson for PG at this point.


        We see all the the warts with our own guys and often overlook the same warts on star players from other teams. I'm not saying that the Pacer stars are clearly better and without fault, and I realize that there is another subsection of Pacers fans that overrate the team. I'm just saying that from the inside looking out it's sometimes tough to make a level evaluation.


        Anyway, I voted Paul over West just because of the level PG has hit and my belief that he's likely to continue it. I hate to see West not get a spot, but the team needs to be winning more than this to help the cause for pulling 2 guys to the game.


        Think about this though - IF IF IF PG24 were to make the AS team, then you'd have 4 players on the roster that had been AS since the 08-09 season. And it's not like the old man of the group is way off that pace since he's one of the 2 guys with the best shot to make it this year. Heck, if Hibbert were making short shots he'd be a shoe-in for this year's team given his insane defensive level.

        Hellava starting 5. Really impressive.
        Dallas has one hall of famer and like 5 former all stars plus one future all star in Mayo, does anybody see them winning a championship this year? of course not, the goal is to have all stars hitting their prime together, no the fake prime you always talk about but the true prime, what you are saying sounds nice and all but that doesn't make a team a championship contender.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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        • #19
          Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

          Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
          That doesn't have to be true. A Pacers best chance is for an injury to one of the members of the All Star team and they get named to take his place. I haven't seen one poll that has a Pacer in the game. ... West is unlikely because they are just voting for big people not centers, PFs and SF. PG has no chance of being named as a SF where he has played all season, there are just too many good people ahead of him. At SG, it might be more likely but that is not where he has been playing.....
          The voting process is only for the starters. The fans vote who they want to start based on their own criteria (team affiliation, hype, marketability, reputation and even ethnicity sometimes). You will rarely see a player from a small market team in this voting unless he is hyped as a superstar.

          However, there are also the reserves. Those are named by the coaches and with them it's not a popularity contest. Team performance along with individual performance are the key aspects in order to be voted in by the coaches. That's where someone from our Pacers was voted last year and could be voted again this year.

          I don't think that we'll have an All-Star this year, though. I don't think the stats are good enough to back that up. Maybe West has a chance but I don't really see it.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
            Dallas has one hall of famer and like 5 former all stars plus one future all star in Mayo, does anybody see them winning a championship this year? of course not, the goal is to have all stars hitting their prime together, no the fake prime you always talk about but the true prime, what you are saying sounds nice and all but that doesn't make a team a championship contender.
            And when Dallas won the championship they had 4 "former" all-stars (Kidd, Butler, Peja, and Marion). Terry was 33 and Dirk was 32, both older than any of our starters currently. Was that "fake prime?" What about all the other championship teams of the past decade with starters well in their 30's. Don't underestimate the value of experience and vetern leadership. I've never understood why you are absolutely obsessed with the age of our roster when history proves otherwise.
            Last edited by purdue101; 12-27-2012, 10:37 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

              Originally posted by purdue101 View Post
              And when Dallas won the championship they had 4 "former" all-stars (Kidd, Butler, Peja, and Marion). Terry was 33 and Dirk was 32, both older than any of our starters currently. Was that "fake prime?" What about all the other championship teams of the past decade with starters well in their 30's. Don't underestimate the value of experience and vetern leadership. I've never understood why you are absolutely obsessed with the age of our roster when history proves otherwise.
              Dirk and Kidd are hall of famers big difference, not only that but that roster was deep because Cuban didn't care to spend as much as he could to win a championship.
              Last edited by vnzla81; 12-27-2012, 10:46 PM.
              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                We see all the the warts with our own guys and often overlook the same warts on star players from other teams.
                AMEN to that
                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                  Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                  Verajao certainly deserves to make it and I think he will.
                  So Irving is left out? One of the two has to be left out because there's no way that a 7 - 23 team is going to have 2 All Stars. Even if those players deserve it.
                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                    The factor here is the standings combined with their statistical performance. If just before the all-star break the Pacers are within the 3-5 spots and either one of them ended with some good stats, then chances are we will get at least 1 chosen by coaches. If not then most likely stats will cover for other players to make instead of PG or West, like Varejao for example.

                    But I hope PG will make it somehow. I think it will be a confidence booster for him to do better and an affirmation on his side that he is doing the right things. His early struggles combined, he's putting up great all-around numbers and the fact that he has led many of the Pacers wins should be a great consideration.

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                    • #25
                      Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                      Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                      West and Paul are close, but there is just too much competition. Mello, Bron and Pierce keep Paul out. West may be closer, but Bosh and Garnett will get more votes. Boozer may even get more votes. Big markets baby.
                      Votes only matter for starters.
                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                        Dirk and Kidd are hall of famers big difference.
                        So Kidd was entering his prime at 37? Your point was that if players are not entering their prime together they can't win championships, which simply isn't true. The majority of that team was well past their prime, just had good chemistry and leadership, which is equally important. Plenty of teams win championships with rosters well older than ours. In fact, every single championship roster in the HISTORY of the NBA had an average roster age older than ours, yet you're obsessed with getting younger.

                        I agree that you have to have some good youth, which we do (PG, Hill, Hibbert, Lance), but you also need to have a veteran backbone (David West/Danny Granger).

                        Do you think Sam Presti is sitting behind is desk stressing out b/c Kevin Martin is playing well, an expiring, and about to turn 30? Of course not. He could have gotten better young assets than Lamb/pick, but wanted the veteran.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          Dirk and Kidd are hall of famers big difference, not only that but that roster was deep because Cuban didn't care to spend as much as he could to win a championship.
                          I'll admit right now our roster is not deep enough. The summer offseason to revamp the bench has failed (at least thus far). Can't say I saw it coming though, I was ok with the moves at the time (you were too). I'm hoping the bench is overhauled by the trade deadline.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                            Originally posted by purdue101 View Post
                            I'll admit right now our roster is not deep enough. The summer offseason to revamp the bench has failed (at least thus far). Can't say I saw it coming though, I was ok with the moves at the time (you were too). I'm hoping the bench is overhauled by the trade deadline.
                            I was not ok with the moves, there is a bunch of threads of people calling me hater because of it, no need to bring my Mahinmi comments either.
                            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                              Dallas has one hall of famer and like 5 former all stars plus one future all star in Mayo, does anybody see them winning a championship this year? of course not, the goal is to have all stars hitting their prime together, no the fake prime you always talk about but the true prime, what you are saying sounds nice and all but that doesn't make a team a championship contender.
                              Elton Brand: 33 years old

                              Shawn Marion: 34 years old

                              Vince Carter: 35 years old

                              Chris Kaman: 30 years old

                              Derek Fisher: 38 years old (and also requested to be released)

                              Our older former All Star West is David West. He is 32 years old. For the 2012-2013 season, he is averaging 17.4 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 1 block per game.

                              Let's compare his production with what those Mavericks' guys are giving:

                              Elton Brand: 6.6 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.3 assists and 1.2 blocks per game.

                              Shawn Marion: 10.4 points, 8.0 rebounds and 2.6 assists per game.

                              Vince Carter: 11.8 points, 3.7 rebounds and 1.9 assists per game.

                              Chris Kaman: 13.7 points and 6.2 rebounds per game.

                              Derek Fisher: 8.6 points, 3.6 assists and 1.7 rebounds per game.

                              So, West is scoring at least 4 more points per game by any player in that list of 5 former All-Stars. He's also rebounding more than everyone in this list and is second to Fisher in assists and second to Brand in blocks.

                              Let me say it this once to make it more clear. Our older former All-Star is actually playing like an one!

                              The rest of our All-Stars (former or future) are all younger than those Mavs guys as well.

                              So, yeah. Your comparison seems quite weak. Better luck next time
                              Originally posted by IrishPacer
                              Empty vessels make the most noise.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: which Pacer will be on the all star team?

                                Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                                I was not ok with the moves, there is a bunch of threads of people calling me hater because of it, no need to bring my Mahinmi comments either.
                                Then why did you say those comments? You can't say "Im loving our front office, this is what a front office is supposed to do" after we sign Mahinmi, Green, DJ, and then when it doesn't work out say "I was not ok with the moves." That's flip-flopping b/c you can't admit you were wrong. It's ok to be wrong. I was wrong too.

                                Remember when you wanted to give Nene $18M / year?? I even wanted to throw $14M at him. Both wrong - lesson learned for us both.

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