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Thread: Luck's case for ROY

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    Default Luck's case for ROY

    With getting into the playoffs, I believe Andrew has made his case for ROY and i think he will win it
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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Depends on the last week I think, and Luck really doesn't have control over anything as long as he doesn't lay an egg. RGIII, last game of season, national TV, division rival/Cowboys, playoff spot on line, I think if he plays anything like he did the first game against Dallas and they win I see RGIII winning it, and I wouldn't be the biggest fan of it, Luck took a team from 2 wins to 10/11 with very little changes otherwise, Griffin is from 6 to 9/10.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    He's not going to win. In all likelihood, Wilson and RG3 are both going to get in too. And their play has been much better than Luck's as of late. Plus their stats are much better.

    I'd still rather have Luck.
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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    He's not going to win. In all likelihood, Wilson and RG3 are both going to get in too. And their play has been much better than Luck's as of late. Plus their stats are much better.

    I'd still rather have Luck.
    Russell Wilson isn't going to win it over RGIII (even if he misses playoffs, RGIII).
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    Russell Wilson isn't going to win it over RGIII (even if he misses playoffs, RGIII).
    Wouldn't bet on that, ball don't lie. Kid can flat out ball.

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Wouldn't bet on that, ball don't lie. Kid can flat out ball.
    I'm not saying he isn't any good, he just doesn't have the pub the other two have had all season.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    He's not going to win. In all likelihood, Wilson and RG3 are both going to get in too. And their play has been much better than Luck's as of late. Plus their stats are much better.

    I'd still rather have Luck.
    Not all their stats
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Wouldn't bet on that, ball don't lie. Kid can flat out ball.
    Yeah, Wilson just came on too late, and it is a big difference from what he is doing and what Luck is doing, no running game, no defense, no line, Wilson would not be as affective i a Colts uniform as Luck has been, and I think that will be taken into consideration, Griffin as well....

    When it comes down to it, it is all just a popularity contest, and Griffin is by far the most popular, more commercials, more coverage, more talked about.
    Why so SERIOUS

  11. #9

    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    He's also outplaying both Luck and Wilson.

    I'm rooting for Luck but I don't think he has a chance. It'd be one thing if the Colts were 10-5 and the other two QBs had losing records, but Seattle is 10-5 and Washington is 9-6. I think Wilson has a strong case for ROY but will probably finish 2nd.

    What Luck's done with no line is amazing, but a player has never won an award just because their O-Line was bad. Luck's stats are what they are: mediocre.

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    Hes scored 26 touchdowns and thrown for a rookie record 4100 yards; if that's "mediocre", I cant wait to see what a "good" year will be.

    Don't understand why Luck's good stats get discredited just because his completion percentage is mediocre. He has more yards and touchdowns than anyone; that's pretty bottom line.

    That's not even counting his comebacks, 3rd down execution, his worse team, his better record...

    I don't think its even close really.

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    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-24-2012 at 03:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Hes scored 26 touchdowns and thrown for a rookie record 4100 yards; if that's "mediocre", I cant wait to see what a "good" year will be.

    Don't understand why Luck's good stats get discredited just because his completion percentage is mediocre. He has more yards and touchdowns than anyone; that's pretty bottom line.

    That's not even counting his comebacks, 3rd down execution, his worse team, his better record...

    I don't think its even close really.

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    Wilson has more TD's now, both simply passing and combined. And Griffin now has the same number of combined TD's despite playing 1 less game.

    If it were just the completion percentage, that would be one thing. But the biggest difference between the three QB's is the turnovers. Luck has turned it over 23 times. Griffin has only turned it over 7 times, and Wilson has turned it over 13 times. That's a massive difference for a QB.

    Luck's best argument is that he's had to do more, both because of his role in the offense and the talent level around him. And that's a compelling argument. But he's also played the easiest schedule of the 3.

    At the end of the day, I can't ignore how ridiculously efficient Griffin has been. And while they ask him to do less difficult things in that offense, it's not like Wilson where the team could plug in several QB's and win. Griffin and his threat to pass or run is the center of everything they do.

    I do believe Luck will be better than either in the future because Luck's efficiency will likely get much better. I think Griffin is going to have a hard time replicating efficiency numbers like this, and I think teams are still trying to make Wilson beat them at this point (which will change if he continues having success). But if I had a vote, even as a Colts fan, I would vote Griffin and it wouldn't even be that close. Part of that is because while I believe clutch plays some impact on football (unlike in baseball), there are still too many things that can't be controlled for it to be a massive factor. If you believe more in clutch than I do, then I could see why Luck becomes a much stronger candidate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    Wilson has more TD's now, both simply passing and combined. And Griffin now has the same number of combined TD's despite playing 1 less game.

    If it were just the completion percentage, that would be one thing. But the biggest difference between the three QB's is the turnovers. Luck has turned it over 23 times. Griffin has only turned it over 7 times, and Wilson has turned it over 13 times. That's a massive difference for a QB.

    Luck's best argument is that he's had to do more, both because of his role in the offense and the talent level around him. And that's a compelling argument. But he's also played the easiest schedule of the 3.

    At the end of the day, I can't ignore how ridiculously efficient Griffin has been. And while they ask him to do less difficult things in that offense, it's not like Wilson where the team could plug in several QB's and win. Griffin and his threat to pass or run is the center of everything they do.

    I do believe Luck will be better than either in the future because Luck's efficiency will likely get much better. I think Griffin is going to have a hard time replicating efficiency numbers like this, and I think teams are still trying to make Wilson beat them at this point (which will change if he continues having success). But if I had a vote, even as a Colts fan, I would vote Griffin and it wouldn't even be that close. Part of that is because while I believe clutch plays some impact on football (unlike in baseball), there are still too many things that can't be controlled for it to be a massive factor. If you believe more in clutch than I do, then I could see why Luck becomes a much stronger candidate.
    You basically repeated what I said lol, with more words. I just disagree that because Griffin was more efficient in a much easier offense, it's his award to win. You awarded efficiency over Luck's much more difficult situation, heavier expectations and load, and clutchness. Not to mention more wins and a rookie record in passing yards. Those are much more important overall factors than a higher completion rate and lower turnovers. In fact, that's *why* Griffin has less turnovers and higher completion rate. He either runs an option play, or a west-coast dink throw designed for high completion percentage and high yards after catch and low interception rate.

    The Skins are pulling over a sale job on most of America obviously, lol....

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    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-24-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    ROY doesn't mean much to me. Luck will evolve better as a player and even as his athleticism declines will still be be competing for Super Bowls for the next 12-15 years. I see the other two guys being much more inconsistent year-to-year and peaking pretty early in their careers. I see Kaepernick following a similar career arc as RGIII and Wilson.

    In my mind Cam Newton, Stafford and maybe even Freeman are guys who will have long-term success as well. The problem for them currently is the disfunction in the organizations that write their checks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    ROY doesn't mean much to me. Luck will evolve better as a player and even as his athleticism declines will still be be competing for Super Bowls for the next 12-15 years. I see the other two guys being much more inconsistent year-to-year and peaking pretty early in their careers. I see Kaepernick following a similar career arc as RGIII and Wilson.

    In my mind Cam Newton, Stafford and maybe even Freeman are guys who will have long-term success as well. The problem for them currently is the disfunction in the organizations that write their checks.
    I have always liked Wilson over Griffin. I think he's going to be a star for years to come. Their styles aren't similar.,

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    Russell wilson put on a show last night and his application for rookie of the year. He has my vote If I had one,

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I have always liked Wilson over Griffin. I think he's going to be a star for years to come. Their styles aren't similar.,

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    Seattle doesn't do as much read-option stuff as the Redskins but Wilson still has a lot of rushing attempts relative to completion attempts. I think they are similar in that their ability to be successful in the passing game is too dependent on the threat to run. I also question long-term durability with both guys.

    Definately like Wilson's situation better and do think he has more going for him with the intangibles.

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    He's also outplaying both Luck and Wilson.

    I'm rooting for Luck but I don't think he has a chance. It'd be one thing if the Colts were 10-5 and the other two QBs had losing records, but Seattle is 10-5 and Washington is 9-6. I think Wilson has a strong case for ROY but will probably finish 2nd.

    What Luck's done with no line is amazing, but a player has never won an award just because their O-Line was bad. Luck's stats are what they are: mediocre.
    You know his TD are at the same level as both, and he has BROKE the rookie record for passing yards, he is 7th in passing yards behind Peyton Manning, Wilson is 23rd, RG3 is 21st.

    Luck also is more efficient throughout the season on when it counts, on 3rd and more than 7 and in late game situations.

    Also to say that he would win just because his line sucked is a way off base, the award is basically a MVP for rookies meaning Most Valuable Player, when you think of this you need to consider what a guy is working with and how much value he adds to his team. He by far plays on the worst team of the 3, and that is something that has to be taken into account.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Hes scored 26 touchdowns and thrown for a rookie record 4100 yards; if that's "mediocre", I cant wait to see what a "good" year will be.

    Don't understand why Luck's good stats get discredited just because his completion percentage is mediocre. He has more yards and touchdowns than anyone; that's pretty bottom line.

    That's not even counting his comebacks, 3rd down execution, his worse team, his better record...

    I don't think its even close really.

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    I like a lot of your view points, but I think by saying it is not even close, that to me shows that you have a huge bias and are discrediting the play of the other rookie Qb's just as much as some are doing to Luck.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    Wilson has more TD's now, both simply passing and combined. And Griffin now has the same number of combined TD's despite playing 1 less game.

    If it were just the completion percentage, that would be one thing. But the biggest difference between the three QB's is the turnovers. Luck has turned it over 23 times. Griffin has only turned it over 7 times, and Wilson has turned it over 13 times. That's a massive difference for a QB.

    Luck's best argument is that he's had to do more, both because of his role in the offense and the talent level around him. And that's a compelling argument. But he's also played the easiest schedule of the 3.

    At the end of the day, I can't ignore how ridiculously efficient Griffin has been. And while they ask him to do less difficult things in that offense, it's not like Wilson where the team could plug in several QB's and win. Griffin and his threat to pass or run is the center of everything they do.

    I do believe Luck will be better than either in the future because Luck's efficiency will likely get much better. I think Griffin is going to have a hard time replicating efficiency numbers like this, and I think teams are still trying to make Wilson beat them at this point (which will change if he continues having success). But if I had a vote, even as a Colts fan, I would vote Griffin and it wouldn't even be that close. Part of that is because while I believe clutch plays some impact on football (unlike in baseball), there are still too many things that can't be controlled for it to be a massive factor. If you believe more in clutch than I do, then I could see why Luck becomes a much stronger candidate.
    Very true about the TD', I think when thinking about the interceptions you have to put that in context of when a guy is asked to do, I will say that Luck has had some problems with accuracy at times, but many times it is the offense that is pushing him in the direction of high turnovers. Also if you think about Lucks Turnover % it is about 3%, to put that in prospective Mannings is 2%, Wilsons is 2.7% Ryans is 2.4% Griffin 1.3%, basically it is not as bad as it seems, it is still higher than some of these guys, but if you say that he will only throw a INT 3 times out of a 100 passes but he will Break the rookie passing record and will be close to breaking the rookie passing TD record, than I would accept that as pretty phenomenal play from a rookie QB.

    Also keep in mind that Luck has thrown fro 1000 more yards than Wilson and Griffin.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    ROY doesn't mean much to me. Luck will evolve better as a player and even as his athleticism declines will still be be competing for Super Bowls for the next 12-15 years. I see the other two guys being much more inconsistent year-to-year and peaking pretty early in their careers. I see Kaepernick following a similar career arc as RGIII and Wilson.

    In my mind Cam Newton, Stafford and maybe even Freeman are guys who will have long-term success as well. The problem for them currently is the disfunction in the organizations that write their checks.
    Why do you see them peaking early, out of all the first year qb's I think at this point in the year, Wilson has showed he had the best awareness out of any, and is a playmaker, If he had played like this all year he would be the run away pick for ROY. Grifin has showed no signs that he is getting close to peaking, I do believe that Luck will evolve as well. As far as Newton Stafford and Freeman it is not just because of their organizations. Stafford has a lot of bad decision making even at this point in his career, he has to learn how to win, and he just has not done that yet, Newton has to figure out how he can be successful, he has to use the run often so that he he can open up the pass game, he has a strong arm but is not a accuracy guy so him just trying to be a passing QB won't work, Freeman has a ton of ability, and got his weapons finally and did pretty good this year, one of his biggest problems will be that he plays in a super hard division and it will always be hard to get out and make a name for himself past the regular season.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Russell wilson put on a show last night and his application for rookie of the year. He has my vote If I had one,
    And this is the problem with some voters they forget what has been done over the whole season, tending to have a short memory, if they went back and watched all the games or even just highlights from all 3 qb's throughout the season Wilson would be in 3rd place clearly.
    Why so SERIOUS

  25. #22

    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    I can't argue if someone wants to choose Wilson and Griffin.

    Luck has been great and I realize he has a lot more on his plate, but tied for leading the league in Interceptions is a no no

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Hes scored 26 touchdowns and thrown for a rookie record 4100 yards; if that's "mediocre", I cant wait to see what a "good" year will be.

    Don't understand why Luck's good stats get discredited just because his completion percentage is mediocre. He has more yards and touchdowns than anyone; that's pretty bottom line.

    That's not even counting his comebacks, 3rd down execution, his worse team, his better record...

    I don't think its even close really.

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    And both stats look mediocre when you add their counterparts, interceptions and pass attempts. And, like pointed out, other rookie QBs have more touchdowns with many fewer interceptions.

    It will be hard to beat your competition when they're completing 1 more pass per 5 attempts, throwing more touchdowns, half as many interceptions and have similar overall records.

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    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I like a lot of your view points, but I think by saying it is not even close, that to me shows that you have a huge bias and are discrediting the play of the other rookie Qb's just as much as some are doing to Luck.
    Not discrediting the others, just viewing Luck's achievements for what they are. There's 4 rookies who have all put in ROY performances in normal years. I just think Luck has done the most with the least. He has the worst team... no running game... buncha rooks to throw to... no offensive line..... and he broke the rookie passing record. 6 comeback wins, largely on his shoulders. The highest win total of all the rookies. None of the other rookies were playing under Peyton Manning's shadow. The other rookies have fantastic long-tenured coaching staff's --- Luck had a rookie coach who wasn't even here most of the season. He's already running his own offense and calling most of his own plays, the others aren't even doing it at all. When you look into what each of these kids are doing, I HOPE the people in this league in the know realize that Luck is head and shoulders above these guys.

    It's just a monumental year for this kid, and it's hard for me to say "ya, but he threw 18 interceptions, so nahhhhhhhhh".
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-24-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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  29. #25

    Default Re: Luck's case for ROY

    I honestly don't care anymore.

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