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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Who has jurisdiction?

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  • #16
    Re: Who has jurisdiction?

    To thow another monkey in the wrench.....What would have happend if while Artest was in the stands Rasheed and Artest came to blows. Would this be a continuation of on court or would it be off court? No wonder Stern is so pissed at the Pacers.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Who has jurisdiction?

      Originally posted by able
      Stern has the power "ON" the court. -eof-

      Court is described by the NBA as follows:

      http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1....av=ArticleList

      You can argue hell, fire, brimstone and high water, but the stands are NOT the court.
      They will never be either.

      That explains also the stance of the PA which enhances that by stating that it was not meant for the fuhrer to have so much power as he is now assuming to have, as being in the intent of the agreement.

      Now to "read" an agreement, "intent" is a very important part of the law. Were parties "intending" to do what they (seemingly or according to 1 party) did or was the intent different.

      "on court" matters is a VERY specific term, as already stated by a judge earlier, "on court" = on the court (during play?). the stands are (normally) under the responsibility of the organizer(s).

      I think the PA stands a very decent chance.
      So did Commissioner Stern not have authority to rule when Sacremento and the LA Lakers fought each other under the stands, and in the tunnels outside the lockerroom?

      This "on court" language arose from the Sprewell case, which was behind closed doors, after practice. It was a private, team matter and Stern interfered. In my opinion and also the opinion of the arbitrator, Stern overstepped his boundary on that incident. So intent, as far as this case is concerned, is patently obvious. If its on the NBA's public stage, everyone agreed Stern would be the authority. Just because no one envisioned that a situation would ever spill (charge?) into the stands does not lessen that agreement.
      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
      And life itself, rushing over me
      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Who has jurisdiction?

        My understanding is that the commissioner, David Stern, has say over things that happen on the floor and that an arbitrator has the say for things that happen off of the floor. That is why there is an argument over who dishes out the diciplinary action here. While there was a few punches thrown on the floor, there was a lot of $h!t going on in the stands.
        What really gripes my a$$ is the fact that no one is putting the blame on big Ben. He was on the floor being restained, after the technical and being ejected, for 2 minutes. That incited the crowd. Then he threw a towel and hit Artest, which got a reaction out of Ron. No one in the crowd had thrown anything until after Ben did. 3 minutes went by until Artest was hit & went into the stands. Ben incited the whole thing and should be punished for it with a suspention equal to any Pacer. Also I would suspend Jackson longer than Artest. Artest reacted to being assulted (no I don't agree with his actions) while Jackson simply went into the crown to kick some butt. Any butt. That and what Ben did deserves the stiffest penalties.O'Neal should be playing now.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Who has jurisdiction?

          Jay I was referring to another matter, where the judge ruled that the CBA was very clear language (it was a "on court matter" i thought) and that the arbitrator held no appeal view rights.

          In this case it will be argued the same way, the CBA is clear "ON COURT" and by no definition I can find does that mean anything else then that, nor does it man "besides" or "off" the court.
          So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

          If you've done 6 impossible things today?
          Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Who has jurisdiction?

            Originally posted by indygeezer
            OK...admittedly I don't have the tape to review, so I'll ask this. Rather than the announcement...when did the refs leave the floor? Did any of the offences occur after the refs left? ie JO's tko of the fan. As reps of the league, once they're gone it could be argued that the league had relinquished control.
            IIRC, one of the camera angles of JO clobbering the fan is "looking over the shoulder" of one of the officials, who then begins walking to center court to confer with the other officials that the game should be called.

            I don't think the officials were going to call the game until the fans began invading the court.

            Let's say play resumed, ( ), how do the officials decide who to eject from the remainder of the game? Nevermind, lets not go there.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who has jurisdiction?

              I will never agree with one person holding that much power , there should be a board for disciplne if need be ...but never 1 person deciding one's fate.
              Broadcasting Classic Rock Hits 24/7 SauceMaster Radio!!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                And the reason why the argument for the PA is strong is because penalties for "off court" altercations are usually much stiffer then "on-court" therefore the intent of the agreement is not to give Stern powers in suspensions with the length of the current ones.

                BTW we are not arguing the right to dish out the suspensions, but the right of appeal, According to the CBA Stern can hand out what he wants whenever he wants, however the appeal goes to him if it's an "on court" matter, and the PA has teh right to an arbitrator for "not-on-court" matters.

                I think they have a very strong case. but then again, this is America and I've thought things like that before and was proven wrong, no matter how many agreed with me
                So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                  I guess the DA couldn't charge Ben Wallace because he was on court? I also think the players may have a good chance at the appeal. As said before old Davie has really opened a can of worms.
                  You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                    Originally posted by able
                    Jay I was referring to another matter, where the judge ruled that the CBA was very clear language (it was a "on court matter" i thought) and that the arbitrator held no appeal view rights.

                    In this case it will be argued the same way, the CBA is clear "ON COURT" and by no definition I can find does that mean anything else then that, nor does it man "besides" or "off" the court.
                    Oh, you're talking about the NYK/ Miami brawl, where Patrick Ewing and other NYK players were suspsended for leaving the bench during the PJ Brown/ Charlie Ward altercation.

                    That's a very specific rule and ruling that resulted, I believe, from the Bulls/Knicks brawl in the 1993 playoffs that basically spilled into the first row of seats in the United Center, but even though the benches emptied, that was still a player vs. player altercation. And that rule was applied correctly here (Reggie was the only Pacers player with a one-game suspsenion for leaving the bench during an on-court altercation, several Pistons players served one-game suspensions.)

                    Players that didn't leave the bench until the fight went into the stands, such as Eddie Gill and perhaps Fred Jones (don't remember if he was in the game when all Hell broke loose) and were acting as peacemakers were not penalized.

                    Love him or hate him, you've got to admit Stern's a pretty bright lawyer. He's crossed his "I's" and dotted his "T's" here. :
                    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                    And life itself, rushing over me
                    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                      Originally posted by TheSauceMaster
                      I will never agree with one person holding that much power , there should be a board for disciplne if need be ...but never 1 person deciding one's fate.
                      One's fate?

                      Sorry, but don't be such a drama queen. Stern isn't sending anyone to the electric chair. Everyone can return to the league once thier punishment is complete. Ron can still sell his CD to make up for lost salary in the interim. He's not taken away a single right; palying in the NBA is a privilige, not a right.

                      Your point is well taken, and I hope its addressed somehow in the next CBA, but "one's fate"? :shakehead:



                      Damnit, I hate sounding like the David Stern apologist here.
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                        Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                        One's fate?

                        Sorry, but don't be such a drama queen. Stern isn't sending anyone to the electric chair. Everyone can return to the league once thier punishment is complete. Ron can still sell his CD to make up for lost salary in the interim. He's not taken away a single right; palying in the NBA is a privilige, not a right.

                        Your point is well taken, and I hope its addressed somehow in the next CBA, but "one's fate"? :shakehead:



                        Damnit, I hate sounding like the David Stern apologist here.
                        Sorry but that's how I feel even if this was a non pacer issue I still feel the same way , maybe my wording was not right but oh well.
                        Broadcasting Classic Rock Hits 24/7 SauceMaster Radio!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                          Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                          IIRC, one of the camera angles of JO clobbering the fan is "looking over the shoulder" of one of the officials, who then begins walking to center court to confer with the other officials that the game should be called.

                          I don't think the officials were going to call the game until the fans began invading the court.

                          Let's say play resumed, ( ), how do the officials decide who to eject from the remainder of the game? Nevermind, lets not go there.

                          OK, then my arguement doesn't hold water unless the players are penalized for their actions while leaving the playing floor and I'm not certain that's the case.
                          Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                            This fell down the page quite a bit after the charges were announced, but I wanted to give it one shameless in case anybody missed it earlier today.
                            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                            And life itself, rushing over me
                            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who has jurisdiction?

                              Originally posted by foulplay
                              What really gripes my a$$ is the fact that no one is putting the blame on big Ben. He was on the floor being restained, after the technical and being ejected, for 2 minutes. That incited the crowd. Then he threw a towel and hit Artest, which got a reaction out of Ron. No one in the crowd had thrown anything until after Ben did. 3 minutes went by until Artest was hit & went into the stands. Ben incited the whole thing and should be punished for it with a suspention equal to any Pacer. Also I would suspend Jackson longer than Artest. Artest reacted to being assulted (no I don't agree with his actions) while Jackson simply went into the crown to kick some butt. Any butt. That and what Ben did deserves the stiffest penalties.O'Neal should be playing now.

                              It it's any consolation, I have been saying for weeks now that Big Ben should have assault and battery charges against him for what he did with Artest.
                              Two=the number 2
                              Too=means "also"
                              To=many definitions-also known as the one to use when the other 2 (two, too) do not apply.

                              Their=shows ownership-'it is their house'
                              They're=they are
                              There=many definitions-also known as the one to use when the other 2 (their, they're) do not apply

                              Sorry but it bugs me when these are used incorrectly when I read posts on PacersDigest.com.

                              Comment

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