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Thread: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Last year Granger was our best scorer and our most consistent defender. He was our second best post defender and our second best wing defender. Hibbert was great about help defense, and Paul George was great in on ball defense. That's a pretty strong statement to say he's our fifth best player after a down season where he was still leading our team.

    And you know the all-star was given because Hibbert was voted in as a top center, not because he was the next best available player. No reason to throw bait out there like that.
    Green?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    and you are a West hater why??? He is our 2nd best player at this point, and our go to guy on offense right now, he is our veteran leader, he is basically the heart of this team. How could you hate him?
    He spoke frequently and forcefully about how West was a mistake of a signing. It's been fun watching him come around.

    Just like it will be fun watching him come around once Danny gets back.
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  4. #128
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    Augustin, Plumlee, Green so far have done nothing to make this team better than it was. In fact it is worse.
    Wait, wait, wait. I agree that Augustin's been a significant disappointment. And Green's not been as good as I'd hoped, but I expect him to develop into his role as the season goes on.

    But Plumlee? What's the beef there? First off, I'd certainly hope you're not expecting a late-20s pick to immediately make the team better. I was just hoping that any player we got there would be able to play in the NBA. Mr. Plumlee is vastly exceeding my expectations so far. Don't throw him in there just because you're trying to make your list of "mistakes" bigger.
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  6. #129
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Green?
    Not at all. Granger's mental lapses included a missed backdoor cut or a dumb foul every now and then. I always trusted him to do what was necessary. PG wouldnt take plays off, but he was routinely beat running around screens and would make mental mistakes more often. I said he was our more consistent defender, not our best.

  7. #130

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He was good for like a month( I even thought he was playing at a superstar level)but still he was not the Pacers best player last year not even close.
    I am glad you are on here. They hate your arguments as much as they do mine I think. I agree with most of your comments. I think it is funny that they think we are less fans because we have different opinions on the direction of the team.

  8. #131

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    I am glad you are on here. They hate your arguments as much as they do mine I think. I agree with most of your comments. I think it is funny that they think we are less fans because we have different opinions on the direction of the team.
    because you have no solid facts on why you don't like the direction of where the team is going, here are some reason I like them.
    42-24 last season
    took the eventual NBA champions heat to 6 games and had a great shot to beat them
    Paul George is developing into a special player
    14-12 this season without Granger

    Look at all of the close games we have had this year, put Granger in some of those teams and i bet we would be around 17-9 or 18-8 right now

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  10. #132
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    All that nonsense you just posted has no merit what so ever to it. You do not live here, you do not feel the pulse of the fanbase here. You have no history what so ever w,ith this franchise except you chose to be a fan I guess. The Pacers are average their record bears that out. They are not popular in their own town. The attendence is proof of that. The national media and even local media do not talk much about them. That is because they have become irrelevent to most people. That means most people here don't like the product that much. These are the facts and they are supported. Now I will sit back and wait for your argument about how it is the fans fault for not showing blind loyalty to a franchise that for many years lost its way.
    SO because he doesn't live in Indy nor the US, he doesn't "feel the pulse of the fanbase"? I'd think the fanbase includes most of PD. Afterall, why would we be a part of this forum if we weren't die hard fans? Not every die hard fan lives in Indy, apparently they don't have to live in the US either (as Nuntius has shown) So to say that he doesn't feel the "pulse" of the fanbase is completely false. He's as big of a fan of the Pacers as you, me, and any other poster here on PD.

    In fact, if you read his posts you can easily gauge how much he knows about the Pacers, the NBA, and basketball period.

    Bottom line, this definitely has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. NONE of us have any "history" with the team. We're all just fans who like to discuss the Pacers as well as basketball (well most of us) No one's opinion on here is 100% fact, no matter what anybody says. So instead of focusing on where someone lives and determining whether or not they "have a pulse on the fanbase", you should probably learn to defend your arguments and ideas a little better.

    Just an observers opinion....

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  12. #133
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    All that nonsense you just posted has no merit what so ever to it. You do not live here, you do not feel the pulse of the fanbase here. You have no history what so ever w,ith this franchise except you chose to be a fan I guess. The Pacers are average their record bears that out. They are not popular in their own town. The attendence is proof of that. The national media and even local media do not talk much about them. That is because they have become irrelevent to most people. That means most people here don't like the product that much. These are the facts and they are supported. Now I will sit back and wait for your argument about how it is the fans fault for not showing blind loyalty to a franchise that for many years lost its way.

    Since he pays to watch the games he has every right to make any kind of argument he wishes.

    And as for the loss of hometown fans...well not every small market team is sandwiched between Chicago and the home of LeBron James during their first bad stretch of basketball in almost 20 years.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He was good for like a month( I even thought he was playing at a superstar level)but still he was not the Pacers best player last year not even close.
    Sigh..

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits.../danny-granger

    He was good for the whole second part of the season. March, April and the playoffs.
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  15. #135

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wait, wait, wait. I agree that Augustin's been a significant disappointment. And Green's not been as good as I'd hoped, but I expect him to develop into his role as the season goes on.

    But Plumlee? What's the beef there? First off, I'd certainly hope you're not expecting a late-20s pick to immediately make the team better. I was just hoping that any player we got there would be able to play in the NBA. Mr. Plumlee is vastly exceeding my expectations so far. Don't throw him in there just because you're trying to make your list of "mistakes" bigger.
    Just exactly what has he done to exceed your expectations. He has contributed absolutely nothing and does not look like he will. Most of the experts questioned the pick so why am I so far off base. He wasn't that good in college and that was not even playing with the big boys.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    SO because he doesn't live in Indy nor the US, he doesn't "feel the pulse of the fanbase"? I'd think the fanbase includes most of PD. Afterall, why would we be a part of this forum if we weren't die hard fans? Not every die hard fan lives in Indy, apparently they don't have to live in the US either (as Nuntius has shown) So to say that he doesn't feel the "pulse" of the fanbase is completely false. He's as big of a fan of the Pacers as you, me, and any other poster here on PD.

    In fact, if you read his posts you can easily gauge how much he knows about the Pacers, the NBA, and basketball period.

    Bottom line, this definitely has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. NONE of us have any "history" with the team. We're all just fans who like to discuss the Pacers as well as basketball (well most of us) No one's opinion on here is 100% fact, no matter what anybody says. So instead of focusing on where someone lives and determining whether or not they "have a pulse on the fanbase", you should probably learn to defend your arguments and ideas a little better.

    Just an observers opinion....
    I like watching certain teams play in the NBA but I would never claim to understand how the fanbase in that town feels about the performance of their team without experiencing it.

  17. #137

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    I like watching certain teams play in the NBA but I would never claim to understand how the fanbase in that town feels about the performance of their team without experiencing it.
    I live in Indy too bud, and to say this town doesn't care about the Pacers is false, so don't act like you know either

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  19. #138

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    SO because he doesn't live in Indy nor the US, he doesn't "feel the pulse of the fanbase"? I'd think the fanbase includes most of PD. Afterall, why would we be a part of this forum if we weren't die hard fans? Not every die hard fan lives in Indy, apparently they don't have to live in the US either (as Nuntius has shown) So to say that he doesn't feel the "pulse" of the fanbase is completely false. He's as big of a fan of the Pacers as you, me, and any other poster here on PD.

    In fact, if you read his posts you can easily gauge how much he knows about the Pacers, the NBA, and basketball period.

    Bottom line, this definitely has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. NONE of us have any "history" with the team. We're all just fans who like to discuss the Pacers as well as basketball (well most of us) No one's opinion on here is 100% fact, no matter what anybody says. So instead of focusing on where someone lives and determining whether or not they "have a pulse on the fanbase", you should probably learn to defend your arguments and ideas a little better.

    Just an observers opinion....
    Regardless of what you think of my arguments they are supported by a large part of the Pacer fanbase. The national media and experts recognize that the NBA is a star driven league. That for the most part stars win games and championships and put fans in the seats. The pacers don't have that guy supported by the attendence. The pacers never are put on national tv hardly because the rest of the country finds the team boring and they don't care to watch. If they would like to watch them they would be on. They are very seldom a topic of conversation on tv and on alot of nights arent even featured on highlight shows. If this is what is happening how does anyone expect the fanbase to grow. Sure they will show up for some playoff games but that won't fund the team. They need to show up every night. I don't see the team moving in that direction.

  20. #139

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I live in Indy too bud, and to say this town doesn't care about the Pacers is false, so don't act like you know either
    Then why is the arena half full.

  21. #140
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    All that nonsense you just posted has no merit what so ever to it. You do not live here, you do not feel the pulse of the fanbase here. You have no history what so ever w,ith this franchise except you chose to be a fan I guess. The Pacers are average their record bears that out. They are not popular in their own town. The attendence is proof of that. The national media and even local media do not talk much about them. That is because they have become irrelevent to most people. That means most people here don't like the product that much. These are the facts and they are supported. Now I will sit back and wait for your argument about how it is the fans fault for not showing blind loyalty to a franchise that for many years lost its way.
    Listen here, buddy. The fact that you live in Indiana does not make you a bigger fan than me or any other international fan.

    The Pacers may be irrelevant to you. But they're not irrelevant to me. They're not irrelevant to IrishPacers. They're not irrelevant to Johanvil. They're not irrelevant to Marlin. They're not irrelevant to able. They're not irrelevant to ballism. They're not irrelevant to granger33. They're not irrelevant to cordobes. They're not irrelevant to Frostwolf. They're not irrelevant to Mourning. They're not irrelevant to us, international fans.

    Every day, there are several posters in here who watch the games while being in another continent (be it Europe or Australia). That means that most of the times those games are going to be several hours after midnight for them. They deprive themselves of sleep or they sleep during the day in order to be able to watch the games. Why? Because they care!

    You know what all those international fans have in common that you, in particular, lack? They appreciate the team. Moreover, they became Pacers fans because they chose to do so.

    You have every right to not support the Pacers if you want. I'm not going to tell you what to do. It's your choice.

    But DON'T YOU DARE try to belittle us, international fans!

    Because we do something that you don't. We appreciate this team. And we will continue to do so.

    When it comes to team sports, there's one thing I've learned by watching them and participating in them over the course of my life. That the best thing that a fan can do to better the future of his team, is to support it. Complaining for the sake of complaining leads nowhere. It's a dead end.
    Last edited by Nuntius; 12-20-2012 at 11:17 PM. Reason: typo
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  23. #141

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Listen here, buddy. The fact that you live in Indiana does not make you a bigger fan than me or any other international fan.

    The Pacers may be irrelevant to you. But they're not irrelevant to me. They're not irrelevant to IrishPacers. They're not irrelevant to Johanvil. They're not irrelevant to Marlin. They're not irrelevant to able. They're not irrelevant to ballism. They're not irrelevant to granger33. They're not irrelevant to cordobes. They're not irrelevant to Frostwolf. They're not irrelevant to Mourning. They're not irrelevant to us, international fans.

    Every day, there are several posters in here who watch the games while being in another continent (be it Europe or Australia). That means that most of the times those games are going to be several hours after midnight for them. They deprive themselves of sleep or they sleep during the day in order to be able to watch the games. Why? Because they care!

    You know what all those international fans have in common that you, in particular, lack? They appreciate the team. Moreover, they became Pacers fans because they chose to do so.

    You have every right to not support the Pacers if you want. I'm not going to tell you what to do. It's your choice.

    But DON'T YOU DARE try to belittle us, international fans!

    Because we do something that you don't. We appreciate this team. And we will continue to do so.

    When it comes to team sports, there's one thing I've learned by watching them and participating in them over the course of my life. That the best thing that a fan can do to better the future of his team, is to support it. Complaining for the sake of complaining leads nowhere. It's a dead end.
    The pacers are relevent to me too. I have been a season ticket holder for 18 years. What I am saying is that for many people in this market the pacers have become irrelevent. They believe the cost of bailing them out with millions of dollars every year because they can't make it on their own is getting old. They have given up on the team and they will be hard to win back. I believe the pacers shoot themselves in the foot sometimes when they finally make some progress. Blind loyalty is just that. When they get back to that old pacer tradition of playing to be champions and compete with the best I will be quiet. This city has had cuts to education, public safety and healthcare all the while bailing out milliionares. This is a view shared by many people here. Not everybody lives and dies with the pacers. I didn't belittle anyone I just said if you don't have a feel for a market you can't possibly know all the idiosyncricies of that market. I wouldn't pretend to know what it is like where you live. You are no more a fan than me, you just don't have any respect for my opinion.

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  25. #142
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    The pacers are relevent to me too. I have been a season ticket holder for 18 years. What I am saying is that for many people in this market the pacers have become irrelevent. They believe the cost of bailing them out with millions of dollars every year because they can't make it on their own is getting old. They have given up on the team and they will be hard to win back. I believe the pacers shoot themselves in the foot sometimes when they finally make some progress. Blind loyalty is just that. When they get back to that old pacer tradition of playing to be champions and compete with the best I will be quiet. This city has had cuts to education, public safety and healthcare all the while bailing out milliionares. This is a view shared by many people here. Not everybody lives and dies with the pacers. I didn't belittle anyone I just said if you don't have a feel for a market you can't possibly know all the idiosyncricies of that market. I wouldn't pretend to know what it is like where you live. You are no more a fan than me, you just don't have any respect for my opinion.
    That may be what you're saying now, but it isn't what you started out saying. Nuntius didn't make any comments about the local fanbase, you brought it up by saying he doesn't know anything about the local fanbase. What you're saying now is true, but wasn't relevant to the previous discussion.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 12-21-2012 at 12:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    I believe the pacers shoot themselves in the foot sometimes when they finally make some progress. Blind loyalty is just that.
    Appreciating your team is blind loyalty and shooting themselves in the foot?

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    This city has had cuts to education, public safety and healthcare all the while bailing out milliionares.
    What that has to do with basketball? The economic crisis goes much deeper than sports or even a continent. It's a crisis of th world's economic system.

    Don't think that I haven't felt this in my very skin. I live in Greece. The people of my country has been brought to their knees by this crisis. They have sacrificed everything to bail out the banks and a caste of filthy rich bussinessmen and politicians.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    Not everybody lives and dies with the pacers.
    I don't live and die with the Pacers either. I just appreciate them for giving me something to smile about in those ****ed up times.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    I didn't belittle anyone I just said if you don't have a feel for a market you can't possibly know all the idiosyncricies of that market.
    Yes, you did. But that's beyond the point.

    I didn't say that I know all the idiosyncracies of the Indiana market. But I don't need to know the idiosyncracies of a specific market to know how a basketball team survives.

    In order for a team to be successful, it needs the support of its fans. Period. There's no way around it. If the fans do not support their team then they shouldn't expect them to go anywhere. They cannot go anywhere without their supports. Teams need their fans!

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    You are no more a fan than me, you just don't have any respect for my opinion.
    I never said I'm more of a fan than anyone. But don't ask for any respect when you don't respect your own self. If you did, you would appreciate what you deem to be a fan of.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    the NBA is a star driven league.
    Lucky for us we have 3 all-stars on our team, and a 4th player who is playing better right now than any of those three have ever played in their careers.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 12-21-2012 at 09:33 AM.

  30. #145

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    Then why is the arena half full.
    There are a lot of arenas half full, bud. This isn't just a Pacer problem, but a NBA problem. Unless of course one of a handful of teams are playing that night.

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  32. #146
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    Thumbs up Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    and you are a West hater why??? He is our 2nd best player at this point, and our go to guy on offense right now, he is our veteran leader, he is basically the heart of this team. How could you hate him?





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    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    All that nonsense you just posted has no merit what so ever to it. You do not live here, you do not feel the pulse of the fanbase here. You have no history what so ever w,ith this franchise except you chose to be a fan I guess. The Pacers are average their record bears that out. They are not popular in their own town. The attendence is proof of that. The national media and even local media do not talk much about them. That is because they have become irrelevent to most people. That means most people here don't like the product that much. These are the facts and they are supported. Now I will sit back and wait for your argument about how it is the fans fault for not showing blind loyalty to a franchise that for many years lost its way.
    He watches the exact same games you do, so raise up off his sack with your nonsensical blatherskite ..
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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  36. #148

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    There are a lot of arenas half full, bud. This isn't just a Pacer problem, but a NBA problem. Unless of course one of a handful of teams are playing that night.
    Even the teams like the Heat and and other top 10 teams have problems selling out the arenas to real people sitting in the seats. A lot of the attendance figures are based on corporate block buying. The corp. then gives the tickets to their employees or vendors. The seats are sold and paid for, but empty. IMO, if the Simons were not such Indpls. homers, the Pacers would have been gone to another city. Most of us Ind. fans are fickle, if we don't get what we percieve as Indiana Basketball, we don't watch or support it.

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  38. #149

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    I am glad you are on here. They hate your arguments as much as they do mine I think. I agree with most of your comments. I think it is funny that they think we are less fans because we have different opinions on the direction of the team.
    You guys need a room?

    So the crux of these guys arguments, beliefs, opinions, or non-blue & gold colored glasses opinions is this: the pacers are never getting past the first or second round of the playoffs because they don't have a star in a star driven league.

    They don't offer any suggestions, I just assume they expect one to fall in the Pacers' laps. But until that happens, they're just going to be to talk about anything that they can spin to be negative....errr I guess they're just being 'honest'.

    Vnzla latest spins include acting like Granger has suddenly turned into Eric Gordon with his knee problems, that Mahinmi's $4m/yr contract is somehow crippling to this franchise, and on and on. And I'm sure these guys were leading the charge on how much better Brooklyn, Boston, and Philly would be, yet they're behind the Pacers right now. What's their excuse fellas?

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  40. #150

    Default Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    That may be what you're saying now, but it isn't what you started out saying. Nuntius didn't make any comments about the local fanbase, you brought it up by saying he doesn't know anything about the local fanbase. What you're saying now is true, but wasn't relevant to the previous discussion.
    He has said that a team will only survive if its fanbase will support them. He never has an explanation for why this fanbase does not support the pacers the way they could. There is a reason, I have my opinion what that reason is. What is his? I don't think he has one. I don' think you can explain what that reason is unless you have seen what the pacers were, what direction they took and where their headed now. They damaged their image somewhere along the line and they have been paying for it. I personally don't think they are doing what they could to get it back. They had a golden opportunity in the offseason. They preached to us for years that that would be the time their hands were no longer tied and they could really get things done. They blew it big time and I am pissed at them for misleading everyone again. Now their hands are tied again and we are facing more years of mediocrity because of it. They like to use the excuse that nobody with a big name would want to come here. That is ******** and a defeatist attitude. I am sick of it. Thy don't tolerate it in other markets why should we here?

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