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Thread: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

  1. #201
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Going from the Horizon League to the Big East in 2 years is absolutely fricking incredible.

    Could be a major factor in Butler's recruiting going forward. I'd have to think it will make Bluiett and Lyles think a little harder about the Dawgs.

  2. #202
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Going from the Horizon League to the Big East in 2 years is absolutely fricking incredible.

    Could be a major factor in Butler's recruiting going forward. I'd have to think it will make Bluiett and Lyles think a little harder about the Dawgs.
    That was my first thought. I mean good for Butler and all, sincerely, but this is not a development that brings me joy.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    I am very, very excited to see what Stevens can do with teams full of high major level recruits. We've seen what he can do with a few of them here and there. There will surely be some growing pains but in 3-5 years time, I think they could very well be an elite level program from top to bottom.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Going from the Horizon League to the Big East in 2 years is absolutely fricking incredible.

    Could be a major factor in Butler's recruiting going forward. I'd have to think it will make Bluiett and Lyles think a little harder about the Dawgs.
    Lyles is going to Kentucky. Bluiett is a very real possibility though.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Lyles is going to Kentucky. Bluiett is a very real possibility though.
    I just used those names because they've been in the news recently. I don't really follow it closely enough to know anything about either of their particular cases.

    The over-arching point though is, this move to the Big East is a massive coup for Stevens and Butler from a recruiting stand point. That conference has a chance to be as good as any basketball conference in the nation on an annual basis.

    I can't wait to see how it all turns out for them. Butler could turn into a real national powerhouse, a la Duke.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I just used those names because they've been in the news recently. I don't really follow it closely enough to know anything about either of their particular cases.

    The over-arching point though is, this move to the Big East is a massive coup for Stevens and Butler from a recruiting stand point. That conference has a chance to be as good as any basketball conference in the nation on an annual basis.

    I can't wait to see how it all turns out for them. Butler could turn into a real national powerhouse, a la Duke.
    I'm really not trying to be the proverbial wet blanket here, but I just don't see it. The conference members, as of now, are DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Butler, and Xavier. Another team like VCU or Creighton will likely join the fray. Looking at that list, I don't see any real A-list, year-in-year-out contenders on a national scale (besides maybe Georgetown). The rest of them range from "consistently frisky" (Marquette, Villanova, Butler, Xavier) to "consistently disappointing" (DePaul, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall). Every team in the conference has potential, but to be a truly elite conference, I think you need a couple A-List schools, and I just don't see it here.

    I'm also not positive that Butler's recruiting will take a dramatic step forward. In theory, it should bump up a few notches, but they are still fighting an uphill battle with Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio State, etc. coming into the state for the elite talent. What if they join this conference and start losing more and the sparkle wears off the program? I don't think it will, but I also don't see them being "the Duke of the Midwest." Sorry, I just don't think that school has the potential to ever reach that level.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm really not trying to be the proverbial wet blanket here, but I just don't see it. The conference members, as of now, are DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Butler, and Xavier. Another team like VCU or Creighton will likely join the fray. Looking at that list, I don't see any real A-list, year-in-year-out contenders on a national scale (besides maybe Georgetown). The rest of them range from "consistently frisky" (Marquette, Villanova, Butler, Xavier) to "consistently disappointing" (DePaul, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall). Every team in the conference has potential, but to be a truly elite conference, I think you need a couple A-List schools, and I just don't see it here.

    I'm also not positive that Butler's recruiting will take a dramatic step forward. In theory, it should bump up a few notches, but they are still fighting an uphill battle with Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio State, etc. coming into the state for the elite talent. What if they join this conference and start losing more and the sparkle wears off the program? I don't think it will, but I also don't see them being "the Duke of the Midwest." Sorry, I just don't think that school has the potential to ever reach that level.
    It's obviously an uphill battle to reach that kind of level. It will take a set of about 100 different circumstances to all work out in their favor. Here's why I think it can:

    1) Brad Stevens. He is the best coach in basketball, at any level. He doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Players will want to play for him.

    2) How many conferences have 2 programs that consistently compete for national titles? I guess The Big Ten is a great conference, it has a few who can claim they are on that level, on a yearly basis. IU and MSU are on the top tier, and then OSU and Michigan are behind them. The SEC has Kentucky and Billy Donovan's Florida. The Pac-12 has UCLA, and occasionally Arizona. The ACC has North Carolina and Duke, although the addition of Syracuse will give them a 3rd. If the new Big East already has Georgetown, and a few other contenders for the next tier, I don't see why Butler couldn't make that final leap, and join the Hoyas. They can make the final leap just like Duke joined North Carolina, and Florida joined Kentucky at the top. So while maybe the Big East won't be the best basketball conference in the nation every year, it will have to be in the conversation.

    3) Duke didn't exactly make that jump to the elite level by being in their own recruiting territory where they didn't need to worry about who was around them. They are less than 10 miles from UNC. NC State is about half an hour away. Wake Forest is a couple hours away. The Carolinas are a basketball hot bed, just like Indiana is. There is enough talent to go around. One of the major things holding Butler back from being a major player for most of the high-level guys in this state, I believe, has been that status as a mid-major program. That is no longer the case.

    Like I said at the top, it probably won't happen. It will require things to work out perfectly for them. I have no trouble envisioning it happening though. I believe Stevens is that good. I believe the talent in this state is that good. I believe that the new Big East will be that good. I believe Butler can be that good.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It's obviously an uphill battle to reach that kind of level. It will take a set of about 100 different circumstances to all work out in their favor. Here's why I think it can:

    1) Brad Stevens. He is the best coach in basketball, at any level. He doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Players will want to play for him.
    I'm going to go off on a slight tangent here, but it's still Butler related:

    I agree with you. I think Stevens is one of the best coaches in basketball, at any level. For my money, I think Popovich is probably a better coach, but Stevens is in the discussion. Which leads to my next question: What jobs do you think Stevens would potentially leave Butler for? I know in the past we have heard the Indiana job would interest him, I think Duke would probably interest him, and maybe a few other elite college jobs. What do you think of him possibly taking an NBA head coaching job? The track record of college-to-NBA coaches hasn't been great in recent history (it's actually been awful), and Stevens might scare some potential teams off because he hasn't dealt with the massive egos at Butler that he would have to deal with in the NBA, but I would give him a serious look if I were an NBA team. Do you see that as a possibility?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    It is certainly a possibility. I have no doubt that he will get many NBA offers before his career is over. Whether it is something that interests him, I can't say. There is a huge difference between coaching in college and coaching the pros. Obviously there is a massive pay raise involved, but Stevens will have to decide if that extra money is worth the extra headaches. He has 100% job security at Butler. He could coach there the rest of his life if wants to. He clearly won't have that kind of security anywhere else? And especially in the NBA.

    It also wouldn't shock me if he has already been offered the chance to make the jump to the NBA. I haven't heard anything about that, but I would hope the Pacers would have considered him if Vogel didn't take the job by force.

    As far as what college programs, honestly I think Indiana is the only one that he should even have on his radar. Not even Duke.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    As far as what college programs, honestly I think Indiana is the only one that he should even have on his radar. Not even Duke.
    Just curious, why do you think that?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Moving to the Big East just two years away from the Horizon is unreal! The Big East has always been an elite conference for hoops and it looked like it was dead with teams like Louisville,UConn, West Virginia and Syracuse leaving but with schools like G'town,Nova and Marquette still there and now Butler,Xavier and possibly Creighton and VCU it's still a great conference. Any word on what the likes of Cincinnati will be doing or the rumor that Memphis was looking to join?? Landing in a big time conference also helps ensure we keep Stevens and will be a huge plus on recruiting being able to be on national tv almost every game and get in the New York City market.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Just curious, why do you think that?
    If its a pay day he is after, he would be off going to the NBA.

    Like I said, I think he can turn Butler into Duke. Indiana will always be Indiana, and with him being here that has its perks. I just don't think there is any reason to think about making any kind of jump up if he is going to stay in the college game.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    VCU crowd is hype. Butler really struggling to get the ball over halfcourt. Refs are letting VCU get away with a TON of reach ins.

  15. #214

    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    This team is terrible in every way. Hopefully we'll make the tournament.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    This team is terrible in every way. Hopefully we'll make the tournament.


    Stop it. VCU is about the worst possible matchup for you guys, seeing as how you really don't have a true point guard. They gave IU fits last year in the tournament for much the same reason. You need multiple guys who can handle the ball against them or that Havoc defense will do exactly what it's meant to do.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Stop it. VCU is about the worst possible matchup for you guys, seeing as how you really don't have a true point guard. They gave IU fits last year in the tournament for much the same reason. You need multiple guys who can handle the ball against them or that Havoc defense will do exactly what it's meant to do.
    We haven't played a good game since the Gonzaga game. It's unlikely that we will win another game this year. Kenpom has us at 52nd and that will plummet after today. This team has become a trainwreck.

  18. #217
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Not really sure what's happened with this team.

    VCU was a bad matchup, but there's a difference between losing by 12 points as opposed to 30 points. Easily the worst loss in the Stevens' era (not in significance but just in poor basketball play). We know this team has no true point guard and not a ton of athleticism. However, what we saw this afternoon was just plain putrid. I don't know what has to change, but it looks like teams have exposed the Dawgs a bit here the past few games.

  19. #218
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    This teams best players are not very well balanced or complimentary to each other but I still believe Stevens will right the ship and finish well in the A-10 tournament. I also think that barring a horrible 1st round match-up they have an excellent chance to get to the sweet 16.

    On the Big East:

    Next year will be tough to watch with a very young backcourt and no legit big at the five.

    Long term I can see Stevens stealing an occaisional blue chip from the Big Ten programs but to offset that also see him doing very well recruiting top players from other parts of the country and in particular back east. Also can't discount this programs ability to take an under the radar three star athlete and have them quickly contributing at a very high level.

    Not sure they can get to Duke level status in terms of recruiting and talent but it wouldn't surprise me to see Butler reach 2-3 final fours in the next decade mostly because Stevens is the right there with Izzo when it comes to preparing for tournament games and as an in game tournament coach.

    The TV money from this conference should be pretty good so wouldn't be surprised if Stevens gets a big time contract restructure in the next couple of years either.
    Last edited by Downtown Bang!; 03-03-2013 at 10:06 AM.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    This teams best players are not very well balanced or complimentary to each other but I still believe Stevens will right the ship and finish well in the A-10 tournament. I also think that barring a horrible 1st round match-up they have an excellent chance to get to the sweet 16.

    On the Big East:

    Next year will be tough to watch with a very young backcourt and no legit big at the five.

    Long term I can see Stevens stealing an occaisional blue chip from the Big Ten programs but to offset that also see him doing very well recruiting top players from other parts of the country and in particular back east. Also can't discount this programs ability to take an under the radar three star athlete and have them quickly contributing at a very high level.

    Not sure they can get to Duke level status in terms of recruiting and talent but it wouldn't surprise me to see Butler reach 2-3 final fours in the next decade mostly because Stevens is the right there with Izzo when it comes to preparing for tournament games and as an in game tournament coach.

    The TV money from this conference should be pretty good so wouldn't be surprised if Stevens gets a big time contract restructure in the next couple of years either.
    I agree with this, but what worries me is that Stevens had a week to prepare for VCU, and we got it handed us to us.

  21. #220

    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    The inability for this staff to recruit is going to be a huge issue going forward.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    People say they can't recruit? It's a catch 22. No great talent wanted to play in the Horizon. Now they are moving to the Big East they should be able to get better talent. Mark my words, they will get much better recruits than Purdue


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  23. #222

    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersCenter View Post
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    People say they can't recruit? It's a catch 22. No great talent wanted to play in the Horizon. Now they are moving to the Big East they should be able to get better talent. Mark my words, they will get much better recruits than Purdue
    Aldridge, Smeathers, CHD, and Hopkins were misses regardless of conference, and the fact that Morgan can't get any meaningful PT even with the lack of ballhandlers is very concerning.

  24. #223
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    The inability for this staff to recruit is going to be a huge issue going forward.
    Kellen Dunham? Kameron Woods? Roosevelt Jones?

    They've missed on a few guys the past few years, but I think next year's class looks pretty strong.

  25. #224

    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Kellen Dunham? Kameron Woods? Roosevelt Jones?

    They've missed on a few guys the past few years, but I think next year's class looks pretty strong.
    Dunham and Jones were great gets. Jones is rough but he knows how to use his body, and Dunham is going to be a star. Kam is developing well but has a long way to go. The best excuse is that every player was recruited to be in the Horizon League, but we REALLY need Trevon Bluiett. Our 2014 class hangs on him.

  26. #225
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Butler Basketball

    Butler is gonna have to chill a bit on the out of conference schedule after next year. The team is clearly gassed.

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