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Thread: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

  1. #101

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    I think if theres a good chance you lose him in FA, then you try and at least get something in return for him.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers84 View Post
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    I think if theres a good chance you lose him in FA, then you try and at least get something in return for him.
    First, I do not trade a player for garbage regardless of his contract. Second, when Danny Granger returns the Pacers will contend for a championship. Without David West that is not possible. Again I ask: why in the heck would you trade David West?

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
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    First, I do not trade a player for garbage regardless of his contract. Second, when Danny Granger returns the Pacers will contend for a championship. Without David West that is not possible. Again I ask: why in the heck would you trade David West?
    It also isn't like he is on a cheap contract, and you won't be able to afford his next contract. Instead he is $10 million, and if he doesn't return that is $10 million that can go to another player(s) to improve the team. Sure if there is no way he is staying you might try to find a decent replacement that might be better and/or cheaper than what you can find on the open market, but that is an if that we as fans don't know.

  6. #104

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
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    First, I do not trade a player for garbage regardless of his contract. Second, when Danny Granger returns the Pacers will contend for a championship. Without David West that is not possible. Again I ask: why in the heck would you trade David West?
    That's assuming Danny comes back this season for sure. Besides I didn't say I wanted a trade. Just that I understand the thinking behind it.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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  8. #105

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    -10 off the crap plus some inventive work= Josh Smith?

  9. #106

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    How about Augustin, Hansbrough, and a 2nd rounder for Derrick Williams

  10. #107

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    How about Augustin, Hansbrough, and a 2nd rounder for Derrick Williams
    Didn't you just pu-pu this in the other thread? It was a bad idea then and a bad idea now. Nothing in Derrick Williams play shows he has any business playing in a power/post offense like the pacers use. He is an athletic tweener. Maybe with a guy like Dwight Howard to help protect him, but he either needs to get quick enough to play the 3 or big enough to play the 4.

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Gasol looked like toast to me this season. His knees are really bad. I don't expect it but I wouldn't be shocked if he sat out the remainder of the season.
    Building on this a little, I've always found it interesting how trades get suggested.

    We look at players and basically think...

    1. We need something better and we can sacrifice player A to acquire a player that we need or fits better.

    2. We can trade player A because his contributions are easily covered by other members of the team... I.e he's redundant.

    3. Player A now plays like crap compared to how he used to play, so we need to dump him onto someone else in exchange for one of their better players.

    It seems like so many articles written like this one or suggested by the hometown fan relate very well with #3 above. Why is it that so many seem to think that teams are going to line up to exchange a good player for your crap? Yet it seems like the vast majority of trade suggestions are exactly that. Very rarely is it a win-win for both teams.

    As for Gasol, why would an LA writer think we would want him? He just has no clue how the world turns, especially financially, for a small market team like the Pacers.

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Yes, up 2-1 on Miami last year it was clear that this stupid experiment was a disaster. It was also clear that all-star or Team USA members do not qualify as stars. I mean sure, the Pacers have 3 guys that have already been named to the AS team playing roughly the same caliber game they currently are (or will be in Danny's case), but those are technicalities. Pau is clearly a #1 option and proved it by leading Memphis to multiple 0 win playoffs in a row.

    I mean how is "Pau as #1 option" not more of a "proven failure" than the Indiana "no stars" angle? Sheesh.
    I think it's hilarious that he took a shot at Indiana not having stars. Because, like, having Bynum/Pau/Kobe has been a home run. And Melo/Amare has been great. Oooh, Nash/Howard/Pau/Kobe has changed the league. There haven't been any issues in Miami with Wade/Bosh/James.

    Typical uneducated writer thinking teams are chomping at the bit to give up young talent for a $38M finesse PF that can't stay on the court.

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  15. #110

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I just read that the Pacers have discussed trading West, Augustin and Pendergraph for Pau Gasol and a PG. I don't think the Lakers will take that. Apparently there has been some discusion of Gasol straight up for Stoudemire..... I think they can do even better...... ...
    While I'm sure D'Antoni and Nash would like to have Amare back, I think the blockbuster trade is going to be Pau and K. Love with however many teams and players it takes to make it happen. Probably Pau to the Raptors for AB and Calderone and filler.

  16. #111
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    If we're talking Pau Gasol of three years or so agao, then MAYBE. But no way in HELL right now.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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  17. #112

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    While I'm sure D'Antoni and Nash would like to have Amare back, I think the blockbuster trade is going to be Pau and K. Love with however many teams and players it takes to make it happen. Probably Pau to the Raptors for AB and Calderone and filler.
    I say Gasol to the Rockets for Lin, Parsons and a 2nd rounder. Not sure about the financials, but it makes too much sense for both sides (at least, when you consider that the Rockets covet Gasol) not to be worth exploring. Lin is D'Antoni's dream type of point guard, Houston is locked in to Harden's ballhog style for the long term and that doesn't leave room for a point guard to be effective. Parsons is a good young player. Lakers get younger, Lin learns under Nash, Rockets get the Harden-Gasol combo to win now and for the next 2-3 yrs and still have tons of young guys with upside to fill out the roster.

    Edit: Could also see the Lakers wanting Augustin, mostly to be an Eddie House type player since they need outside shooting and DJA only seems to want to shoot the three (but would benefit from less half-court sets).

  18. #113

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    are these Gasol to the Pacers trade talks actually happening or just rumors that people speculate about?

  19. #114

    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    are these Gasol to the Pacers trade talks actually happening or just rumors that people speculate about?
    rumor so far
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Actually, you have to wonder why the Lakers, Pacers and some 3rd Team doesn't discuss surrounding sending DJ to the Lakers as a backup to Nash, the Lakers sending some assets to some 3rd Team and the Pacers getting back something from a 3rd Team. IMHO....I think that DJ fits a more up-tempo offense instead of the half-court offense that we run now.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  21. #116
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Danny, Mahinmi and Green's contracts disagree with this statement.
    Danny is a top 10 Small Forward that is due 27 mil in his last 2 years. His exact numbers are $13,058,606 for this season and $14,021,788 the next season.

    Mahinmi is a decent back-up Center is due 12 mil in 4 years. His contract is flat at $4mil.

    Green is an athletic wing that can shoot the 3 is due 10.5 mil in 3 years. His contract is flat at $3.5.

    Let's see some comparable players and their contracts.

    Luol Deng: He is due 27.6 mil in his last 2 years. His exact numbers are $13,326,700 for this season and $14,312,125 for the next season.

    I know that some people here feel that he is better than Danny but as I've posted in another threads some Bulls fans think that Danny is better. Personally, I think that the two players are quite comparable. Danny is somewhat better as a scorer while Deng is somewhat better as a defender but I feel that the two players are close.

    Rudy Gay: He is due 53.67 mil in his last 3 years. His exact numbers are $16,460,532 for this season, $17,888,932 for the next season and $19,317,326 for the 14-15 season.

    Is Gay that much better than Granger? Well, let's compare their career averages on some key statistical categories.

    Rudy Gay: 18.0 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.9 BPG. Also, 2.3 Turnovers per Game. He is shooting 45.4 FG% on 52.9 TS% and 48.8 eFG%.

    Danny Granger: 18.2 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.9 BPG. Also, 2.0 Turnovers per Game. He is shooting 43.8 FG% on 56.4 TS% and 50.3 eFG%.

    Danny has a small advantage in PPG, Rudy has a small advantage on rebounds and steals but Danny is turning it over less. Rudy is shooting a better percentage from the field but Danny has the upper hand on TS and eFG.

    So, the stats say that they are about on par.

    Therefore, Danny's contract is vastly better and far from a "crappy" one.

    Enes Kanter: His contract is $4,443,360 for this season, $4,753,320 for the next season and there's a team option of $6,008,106. There's also a qualifying offer of $7,882,663.

    Taj Gibson: His contract is $2,155,811 for this season, $7,550,000 for the next season, $8,000,000 for the 14-15 season, $8,500,000 for the 15-16 season and $8,950,000 for the 16-17 season.

    Andris Biedrins: His contract is $9,000,000 for this season and he also has a player option for the next season of $9,000,000.

    Tiago Splitter: He is at the last year of his rookie contract ($3,944,000) and he has a qualifying offer of $4,930,000 for the next season.

    Some of those produce better than Ian and some of those produce worse. He isn't the best bang for the buck but he is far from a crappy contract as well.

    Dorrel Wright: He is under a one-year contract that's worth $4,106,000.

    Brandon Rush: He is due $4,000,000 for this season and also has a player option of $4,000,000 for the next season.

    Landry Fields: He is due $5,000,000 for this season, $5,225,000 for the next season and $8,500,000 for the 14-15 season.

    Corey Brewer: He is due $3,243,000 for this season.

    Alonzo Gee: He is due $3,500,000 for this season, $3,250,000 for the next season and also has a team option of $3,250,000 for the next season.

    Fields is kinda overpaid. The rest of those are roughly on the same level as Green's contract. Some are slightly cheaper (Brewer, Gee) while others are not (Wright, Rush) but they are on the same level.

    Either way you cut it, paying $3.5 mil for an athletic wing that can shoot the 3 is pretty common around the league. It's a normal contract and once again far from a crappy one.

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  23. #117
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Danny is a top 10 Small Forward that is due 27 mil in his last 2 years. His exact numbers are $13,058,606 for this season and $14,021,788 the next season.......

    ...........Either way you cut it, paying $3.5 mil for an athletic wing that can shoot the 3 is pretty common around the league. It's a normal contract and once again far from a crappy one.
    I appreciate the work you put in looking up those figures. I feel like too many people criticize our team contracts without looking around the league at comparable players and their contracts. Our contracts only look bad compared to the true bargains out there. We don't have many bargains on our team, sure, but with the exception of Hibbert we have a bunch of fair contracts on our team.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 12-17-2012 at 08:42 PM. Reason: shortened quote

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  25. #118
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I appreciate the work you put in looking up those figures.
    Thank you

    It took me a while to amass all those together (source is HoopsHype, by the way) so I appreciate this.

    It just saddens me that some people will remain so fixated on their opinions that they will keep igoring every figure and statistic that I present to them. Oh well. You have to appreciate those that are willing to listen

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I feel like too many people criticize our team contracts without looking around the league at comparable players and their contracts. Our contracts only look bad compared to the true bargains out there. We don't have many bargains on our team, sure, but with the exception of Hibbert we have a bunch of fair contracts on our team.
    Well, PG's contract is a bargain but I suppose that rookie deals don't count

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  27. #119
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Danny is a top 10 Small Forward that is due 27 mil in his last 2 years. His exact numbers are $13,058,606 for this season and $14,021,788 the next season.

    Mahinmi is a decent back-up Center is due 12 mil in 4 years. His contract is flat at $4mil.

    Green is an athletic wing that can shoot the 3 is due 10.5 mil in 3 years. His contract is flat at $3.5.

    Let's see some comparable players and their contracts.

    Luol Deng: He is due 27.6 mil in his last 2 years. His exact numbers are $13,326,700 for this season and $14,312,125 for the next season.

    I know that some people here feel that he is better than Danny but as I've posted in another threads some Bulls fans think that Danny is better. Personally, I think that the two players are quite comparable. Danny is somewhat better as a scorer while Deng is somewhat better as a defender but I feel that the two players are close.

    Rudy Gay: He is due 53.67 mil in his last 3 years. His exact numbers are $16,460,532 for this season, $17,888,932 for the next season and $19,317,326 for the 14-15 season.

    Is Gay that much better than Granger? Well, let's compare their career averages on some key statistical categories.

    Rudy Gay: 18.0 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.9 BPG. Also, 2.3 Turnovers per Game. He is shooting 45.4 FG% on 52.9 TS% and 48.8 eFG%.

    Danny Granger: 18.2 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.9 BPG. Also, 2.0 Turnovers per Game. He is shooting 43.8 FG% on 56.4 TS% and 50.3 eFG%.

    Danny has a small advantage in PPG, Rudy has a small advantage on rebounds and steals but Danny is turning it over less. Rudy is shooting a better percentage from the field but Danny has the upper hand on TS and eFG.

    So, the stats say that they are about on par.

    Therefore, Danny's contract is vastly better and far from a "crappy" one.

    Enes Kanter: His contract is $4,443,360 for this season, $4,753,320 for the next season and there's a team option of $6,008,106. There's also a qualifying offer of $7,882,663.

    Taj Gibson: His contract is $2,155,811 for this season, $7,550,000 for the next season, $8,000,000 for the 14-15 season, $8,500,000 for the 15-16 season and $8,950,000 for the 16-17 season.

    Andris Biedrins: His contract is $9,000,000 for this season and he also has a player option for the next season of $9,000,000.

    Tiago Splitter: He is at the last year of his rookie contract ($3,944,000) and he has a qualifying offer of $4,930,000 for the next season.

    Some of those produce better than Ian and some of those produce worse. He isn't the best bang for the buck but he is far from a crappy contract as well.

    Dorrel Wright: He is under a one-year contract that's worth $4,106,000.

    Brandon Rush: He is due $4,000,000 for this season and also has a player option of $4,000,000 for the next season.

    Landry Fields: He is due $5,000,000 for this season, $5,225,000 for the next season and $8,500,000 for the 14-15 season.

    Corey Brewer: He is due $3,243,000 for this season.

    Alonzo Gee: He is due $3,500,000 for this season, $3,250,000 for the next season and also has a team option of $3,250,000 for the next season.

    Fields is kinda overpaid. The rest of those are roughly on the same level as Green's contract. Some are slightly cheaper (Brewer, Gee) while others are not (Wright, Rush) but they are on the same level.

    Either way you cut it, paying $3.5 mil for an athletic wing that can shoot the 3 is pretty common around the league. It's a normal contract and once again far from a crappy one.

    I stopped reading at the part were Danny is supposed to be a top ten player at something, I don't know if you know this but the guy has not play a game in a long time.

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I stopped reading at the part were Danny is supposed to be a top ten player at something, I don't know if you know this but the guy has not play a game in a long time.
    So then Andrew Bynum isn't a top ten Center in your opinion?

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  30. #121
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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Derrick Rose must not be a top ten PG either

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Neither is top at anything at this moment, not until they prove they can play at the level they were able to play before the injuries, the same with Danny.

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    I think it's obvious he's referring to Danny as a top 10 SF when he is on the court. You're just making a silly comment to deflect from an excellent post that proved a lot of your salary contentions are an opinion unsupported by fact (actually proved wrong).

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    I think it's obvious he's referring to Danny as a top 10 SF when he is on the court. You're just making a silly comment to deflect from an excellent post that proved a lot of your salary contentions are an opinion unsupported by fact (actually proved wrong).
    Gilbert was a top guy when healthy but guess what? he never got healthy, JO was an star in his time but guess what? see Agent 0, Tmac? Brandon Roy? I can come up with more examples but I see that you don't care.

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    Default Re: DJ Augustin being shopped? Marc Stein

    Yep, and Gay and Deng, both of whom he referenced have had injuries too. The point is simple, so stop deflecting. He's showing you many salaries of comparable players to those you've labeled "overpaid." He's proving your contentions inaccurate, you don't like it, and you're deflecting 90% of his post with a silly comment about Danny's injury, which goes both ways.

    It's called narcissism. Google it. First step is always denial.

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