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Thread: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

  1. #76
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Fine. We're 29th?
    When you say that we're 30th, I can write it off as hyperbole. When you say we're 29th, it gets harder to do that.

    If we rated each NBA team's wings into "Tier 1," "Tier 2," and "Tier 3," I'd rate Indiana's in Tier 2.
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  3. #77
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Lance with 0 points. Vogel has got to find a way to get him more involved.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Lance with 0 points. Vogel has got to find a way to get him more involved.
    Even when he wasn't injured, most of the time you could see we were playing 4 vs 5 on offense when it comes to who is the target and who gets the shot.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Even when he wasn't injured, most of the time you could see we were playing 4 vs 5 on offense when it comes to who is the target and who gets the shot.
    Totally agree. It did seem like it was constantly 4 on 5 since Lance was relegated to sit in the corner. Doesn't make any sense since we've seen time after time that when he's involved more the team does better.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Can't help but laugh with Lance when he starts dribbling the ball aggressively and speeding up,the whole D goes "Oh ****" only for Lance to stop it abruptly and give the ball to Hill for a normal possession.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    When you say that we're 30th, I can write it off as hyperbole. When you say we're 29th, it gets harder to do that.

    If we rated each NBA team's wings into "Tier 1," "Tier 2," and "Tier 3," I'd rate Indiana's in Tier 2.

    Based on last night, sure.

    Overall, no, I think they our wings are very close to the bottom but showing signs of improvement.


    Besides, Utah is a bit like us. A little above 0.500, and the success they're having is because primarily of their post and point players, not their wings. We could swap wings with Utah and both teams would still be around 0.500, as long as West, Hibbert, Jefferson, and Milsap produce in the paint and Mo Williams and Hill produce from the point. For both teams, the wings just aren't that important relative to other positions on the roster.

    Our upside is if/when Danny returns.
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  10. #82
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Lance with 0 points. Vogel has got to find a way to get him more involved.
    Man, I thought that Lance really was doing a great job as a facilitator last night. He threaded the needle at least 4 or 5 times which led to easy buckets.

    To me, Lance getting Hibbert (and others) going is more important strategically for us than getting himself going offensively.

    Hibbert needs his mojo back.

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  12. #83
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Assigning players to a certain tier level is more accurate than ranking them one through 30 because you could have a crop of several good players and thus being ranked low doesn't necessarily mean that you're bad. Likewise, when it's a stretch with a lot of poor players, you could be rated pretty high but not be a very good player. So I like the idea of assigning the players to a certain tier as opposed to ranking them one through 30.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    To those who want Frank to do something to get Lance more shots, what is it about Lance's game that has convinced you that he's capable of being a scorer? He seems more situated to be a distributor to me.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Based on last night, sure.

    Overall, no, I think they our wings are very close to the bottom but showing signs of improvement.


    Besides, Utah is a bit like us. A little above 0.500, and the success they're having is because primarily of their post and point players, not their wings. We could swap wings with Utah and both teams would still be around 0.500, as long as West, Hibbert, Jefferson, and Milsap produce in the paint and Mo Williams and Hill produce from the point. For both teams, the wings just aren't that important relative to other positions on the roster.

    Our upside is if/when Danny returns.
    Actually our best indicator of success this season has been Paul George, we are 8-2 when he scores over 20. So I completely disagree that the post and point is what has been driving our team. We are much more than just that.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    To those who want Frank to do something to get Lance more shots, what is it about Lance's game that has convinced you that he's capable of being a scorer? He seems more situated to be a distributor to me.
    I like Lance in an off the ball role where he is called upon in specific sets to make plays. I don't like him setting up the offense. I'm not sure this really makes sense, but maybe you will get what I am saying. I agree he is a distributor, but he is a distributor out of a set IMO.

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Actually our best indicator of success this season has been Paul George, we are 8-2 when he scores over 20. So I completely disagree that the post and point is what has been driving our team. We are much more than just that.

    That's fair. Hey, I'm not expecting many to agree with my position.

    Two counterpoints,

    1) In the fourth quarter, that is exactly what we are.
    2) ~40% of the time Paul has a big scoring game and we're successful when he does. Okay. ~60% of the time? Not so much. So yes, I think there is correlation between his scoring success and team success. However, I'm not sure there is causation, especially given his inconsistenty. Generally, when a team wins, many of its players have played well because that is a team result, not an individual result. We can break this down in many different ways I suppose. Our highest correlation to winning, especially given the number of close games we've played, is when Hill or West make a clutch shot in the waning moments of the game. (assuming G. Greene remembers to play defense on the very final possession...)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  18. #88
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Lance's role is what PG's will be when Danny comes back. Which was the same role as Brandon Rush. There is only one player that seems to score in this offense and the one previous to it (which the sets are not as different, its the emphasis in the set). We haven't had two wings that could score since Dun scored 19.

    I am willing to bet that Lance's shots increase when he goes to the bench.

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  20. #89
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    To those who want Frank to do something to get Lance more shots, what is it about Lance's game that has convinced you that he's capable of being a scorer? He seems more situated to be a distributor to me.
    I think he's both, but I can see where you are pointing to distributor as that is what he's been able to showcase so far, with moderation.

    The reason I think he can be a scorer? Watching his moves. And knowing he is the number one scorer in New York history helps. Also, he leads the team in 2 point field goal percentage, 2nd in overall and 2nd in three %. Wouldn't that indicate that he can score but just hasn't been "freed" quite yet?
    .

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think he's both, but I can see where you are pointing to distributor as that is what he's been able to showcase so far, with moderation.

    The reason I think he can be a scorer? Watching his moves. And knowing he is the number one scorer in New York history helps. Also, he leads the team in 2 point field goal percentage, 2nd in overall and 2nd in three %. Wouldn't that indicate that he can score but just hasn't been "freed" quite yet?
    I think the problem with Lance is that if you try to give him control everything would hinge on his success or failure. He would score a lot and rack up a lot of assists I'm sure. But then you're expecting him to be Steve Nash and create everything. The offense the Pacers have been running the past 10-15 games generates a lot of good lucks. And right now if you're gonna give it to a wing and give him the green light I prefer PG's pull-ups over Lance's right now.

  22. #91

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Lance's role is what PG's will be when Danny comes back. Which was the same role as Brandon Rush. There is only one player that seems to score in this offense and the one previous to it (which the sets are not as different, its the emphasis in the set). We haven't had two wings that could score since Dun scored 19.

    I am willing to bet that Lance's shots increase when he goes to the bench.
    Better not be or Frank and I will be

  23. #92
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Fine. We're 29th?
    Surely, in this season of brotherly love, we can come together in the spirit of Christmas and agree that Cleveland's wing combo is worse than ours.
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  25. #93
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Jay, you wanna reconsider?

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  27. #94
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    I know there's still 10 minutes left in the game, but would anyone mind if I went ahead and put Charlotte on the list?
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    At what position? He isn't going to be an all star as a small forward, there are just to many players way ahead of him. At SG, he is behind Wade and several others. I don't see him making any all star team in the near future..... ...
    Sorry guys blame Anthem, but this is just a huge LOL seeing Blu shoot himself in the foot so many times. He predicted the Colts would win 11 games in like 4 years, they won that many in one. He also laid this gem upon us. He isn't making any all star team in the near future? Well he is in his third year, and he is 22, and he made his first AS game about a month after this post. I know this dude is probably just trolling, but it satisfies me to see him be wrong at such a level.

    Worst wing rotation in the league? Between PG, Lance, George Hill, Granger, and OJ, the future is very bright. I would argue we have the deepest wing rotation in the league. Hence why our former best player get hurts and we don't miss a beat.

    Granger is only under contract for one more year and I seriously believe Lance and OJ make him expendable.

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