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Thread: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

  1. #26

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    I' m becoming a Lance believer. More so every game. I would really like to see him back on the 2nd unit as a combp guard, ala George Hill. Lance can handle the ball well enough to keep Ben from being pressured bringing the ball up court. He is of the same value in the back court with Hill, but his vision, speed and strength would change the entire culture of the 2nd unit back to the Goonies, IMO. 24+ minutes a game for the next 10 games, staying on the floor with the 1st unit part of the time. Start Young at the 2 for defense, move Lance to the Goons as the primary playmaker and let him grow.It worked well for Paul George 2 years ago, and should do the same for Lance. Ben, Lance, IM, Tyler and Green/OJ. Give tham a try.
    Last edited by Cousy47; 12-16-2012 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #27
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The distinctions between a Granger or a PG and what Lance might become will only show up in the deep runs of playoffs. At that point, the great defenses really show up. At that point, guys like Granger and PG, who don't quite have the handles to overcome the pressure and make a play, keep us from advancing.
    I must not have been watching the same playoffs as you the past two years. Neither year did I think "Wow, Danny Granger is really keeping us from advancing."
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  4. #28
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I must not have been watching the same playoffs as you the past two years. Neither year did I think "Wow, Danny Granger is really keeping us from advancing."
    The long layup seems to be making people forget. They hear all about how we're the #1 team defensively this season without Granger (and the last place team defensively). And forget that last year we were top 10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Last season George was still our best individual defender, but Granger got most of the big SF assignments.

    Unfortunately, they also seem to forget that 5 games ago George was performing at a slighly improved clip, but now it seems we've gone back to the "We don't need Danny Granger" argument despite the fact that our offense is still terrible.

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  6. #29
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?


    not much!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  7. #30

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    It's really a small sample size. But the latest wins without Lance does not say anything about Lance, but says more about the starters. The starters are slowly adjusting to return to the last season's strength of that first 5.

    Lance helped the starters somewhat as at some games he really provided the spark to make things happen. But the losses are due to the other starters not showing consistency on offense. Regardless of who's the replacement for Granger, as long as the plays run primarily for the other 4, it still depends on the likes of West, Hill, George and Hibbert to do the majority role in pushing the team to win. The bench does not really suck as they really show some moments. The problem is that they are playing together as another unit, more or less running the same plays like the starters do. That magnifies their individual weaknesses. But if the coaching staff improve the rotations or run unique plays that capitalize their strengths of the bench playing together as a different unit, we will really see how capable they are of holding their own.

    As for Lance playing off the bench when he comes back and onwards, I would like him to be the "Paul George" of the second unit, meaning play him like they play PG right now. Let him drive and dish, or just let him shoot the ball more so he draws defenders and get others open for easy shots.

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  9. #31

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Yea, I wish they should run some different plays for our 2nd unit. If you're dead set in making hockey subs. Then you have to run plays that helps that specific personal succeed. Can't expect plays drawn up for West or Hibbert to work for Tyler or Ian
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I must not have been watching the same playoffs as you the past two years. Neither year did I think "Wow, Danny Granger is really keeping us from advancing."
    Yeah, two different people with two different perspectives, I guess.

    Maybe he's "keeping us from advancing" isn't the best way to say it. (I know that's the way I wrote it). It's that he doesn't have the elite tool kit to help us advance. I'm not bashing the guy. He's as good as some of the best 25 players in the game. He's just not as good as Bron, Kobe, Rose, Ginobli, Dwade, Melo, etc. I'm not dissing Granger. I'm just saying until we find someone with those elite skills, we aren't advancing. Lance is a long shot. He may not dominate like the others, but I think he could be a Ginobli type who has the ability to create and make things happen when it really counts in the last two or three rounds of the playoffs.

    From that perspective, if the ball is in Granger's hands in 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs, he is not good enough to advance us, imo, even though he is really good.
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The distinctions between a Granger or a PG and what Lance might become will only show up in the deep runs of playoffs. At that point, the great defenses really show up. At that point, guys like Granger and PG, who don't quite have the handles to overcome the pressure and make a play, keep us from advancing.

    Say what? That's like saying if Reggie Miller was a better clutch shooter we would have won a championship or two, so he kept us from advancing.

    You are blaming our best players for not being better than they are.

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  13. #34

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    The long layup seems to be making people forget. They hear all about how we're the #1 team defensively this season without Granger (and the last place team defensively). And forget that last year we were top 10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Last season George was still our best individual defender, but Granger got most of the big SF assignments.

    Unfortunately, they also seem to forget that 5 games ago George was performing at a slighly improved clip, but now it seems we've gone back to the "We don't need Danny Granger" argument despite the fact that our offense is still terrible.
    That's not being said. Everyone agrees we need Danny. You're probably thinking of my posts about Paul at SG. I don't care for it, but even I'm not foolish enough to believe we'd be better off without Danny.

    The offense is flawed with Danny and Paul on the wing and no true playmaker at PG. We were top 10 last year in efficiency mainly because of free throws, but I doubt your going to find many people who thought our offense was good. In the playoffs you gotta be able to execute and put the ball in the basket, and I agree with the OP that an unleashed Lance could come in handy when defenses tighten up in the playoffs.

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  15. #35
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Lance has excellent James Harden/Jason Terry sixth man potential. He doesn't need to start to help us win a championship. He can fill in off the bench at three positions--that is very valuable moving forward. If he needs to be "freed," this should be freeing enough.

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  17. #36

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    The best thing about Lance is that he keeps Gerald Green off the court, but he's becoming a much better player. He'l be big on the bench, as he is the closest thing to a ball handler the bench will have, which is scary.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Say what? That's like saying if Reggie Miller was a better clutch shooter we would have won a championship or two, so he kept us from advancing.
    Not quite. It's more like saying if we didn't have Mark Jackson, Reggie wouldn't have been able to lead us to greatness. You've got to have a world-class playmaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    You are blaming our best players for not being better than they are.
    No, not really. If I'm blaming anyone it's coaching and management. Ever heard the phrase, "The good is the biggest enemy of the great" ?

    We will continue to struggle if management continues to be shortsighted and be happy with success all through the regular season and into the first round of the playoffs, then forget why we don't get any further. Are they looking for trading one or two of our "good" players for a great one? Are they developing anyone currently on our team who might develop into that player? (Yes, with PG, not quick enough with Lance, imo).

    I don't blame Granger for being our best player. That's not on him.
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Lance has excellent James Harden/Jason Terry sixth man potential. He doesn't need to start to help us win a championship. He can fill in off the bench at three positions--that is very valuable moving forward. If he needs to be "freed," this should be freeing enough.
    He isn't going to help the Pacers win a championship unless they upgrade three of the starters to stars and that isn't going to happen... ...

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Speaking of Lance, I just saw him at the Circle Centre Food Ct.

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  22. #40
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    He's just not as good as Bron, Kobe, Rose, Ginobli, Dwade, Melo, etc. I'm not dissing Granger. I'm just saying until we find someone with those elite skills, we aren't advancing.
    I agree that Granger's not as good as those guys, and don't say that as an insult. But if we'd gotten more production out of our shooting guard spot last year, and if our bench (especially Barbosa) could have given us anything at all, we'd have beaten the eventual champions.

    If Granger comes back, I think we can do some damage.
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I agree that Granger's not as good as those guys, and don't say that as an insult. But if we'd gotten more production out of our shooting guard spot last year, and if our bench (especially Barbosa) could have given us anything at all, we'd have beaten the eventual champions.

    If Granger comes back, I think we can do some damage.
    I don't think the Pacers beat Miami if those things you suggest had happened. If that had happened, James and Wade would have given even more. They were good enough to beat the Pacers and the Pacers could do nothing about it....... ...

  24. #42

    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    My thought after two games without Lance is that what really matters is whether Hill, West, and Hibbert play well.

    We're getting a nice boost from Paul lately. But we've still got the 30th best wing combination in the league right now and will until Danny gets healthy.
    Dead last? I don't know about that. Not with the way Paul's playing.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I agree that Granger's not as good as those guys, and don't say that as an insult. But if we'd gotten more production out of our shooting guard spot last year, and if our bench (especially Barbosa) could have given us anything at all, we'd have beaten the eventual champions.
    I respect the viewpoint, but my own view is that Bron and DWade were toying with us and cranked up the mojo when they had to. With the improvements you name, they would have just stepped up a little earlier.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    If Granger comes back, I think we can do some damage.
    Yes, we will be better. But I fear not ECF better
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I don't think the Pacers beat Miami if those things you suggest had happened. If that had happened, James and Wade would have given even more. They were good enough to beat the Pacers and the Pacers could do nothing about it....... ...
    You know, you're right. Wade and LeBron were clearly holding back to make things appear more fair for the Pacers.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    You know, you're right. Wade and LeBron were clearly holding back to make things appear more fair for the Pacers.
    Not on purpose. It's just human nature to procrastinate, but then act when one must.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  29. #46
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    You know, you're right. Wade and LeBron were clearly holding back to make things appear more fair for the Pacers.

    They did what they had to do. If pressed, they would have done just a little more. Super stars are like that........ ...

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Not on purpose. It's just human nature to procrastinate, but then act when one must.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    They did what they had to do. If pressed, they would have done just a little more. Super stars are like that........ ...
    I would accept the procrastination argument if it were an assignment, work order, or chore to do. But it's a basketball game. And I was talking about the games they were winning after the 2-1 Pacers lead, when both Wade and LeBron got unbelievable hot at the same time. And carried it through the playoffs. There may have been a point where they were giving subpar effort or were focusing on the wrong things. But the moment Spoelstra got through to them they were giving their full effort the rest of the way. There was no "well we gave this much effort and we were losing, so let's increase the effort level by a marginal amount." It was everything. And effort-wise, I would argue it was 100% the entire series.

    Superstar or not, people don't function that way. It may appear that way because their best effort is so much better than everybody else's. But just like everybody else, when they give everything they've got, it is everything they've got. The results of that effort are phenomenal, and in fact were. THey were historic.

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    For the record, the Pacers were up 61-51 in the third quarter of game four at home (2-1 in the series) before Miami went on that insane run. We were very, very close. This wasn't toying or procrastinating. They almost lost that game.

    We might not have won another game that series, beaten Boston, or OKC. But we were very close to being up 3-1 in the Miami series.

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  33. #49
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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Crazy talk!!!! Why are we changing history? Are you guys serious with this?

    The Heat were not toying with us. They weren't waiting to get serious. Wade was injuried early in the series. Lebron finally became a man. It took the Pacers taking it to them for the King to finally live up to the name. It should not take away from what we did. Battier was playing killer defense on a tired West. Vogel would not get the ball in the post.
    The bench sucked marbles.
    Did you guys forget this series?

    We had a shot to beat them.
    And who says it can't happen again? I think it is more unlikely this year because the Heat are so much better than last year. But weird things happen in this league.

    So you want to tank the season for the limited possibility of Lance being our Messiah? Crazy Talk

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    Default Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I respect the viewpoint, but my own view is that Bron and DWade were toying with us and cranked up the mojo when they had to. With the improvements you name, they would have just stepped up a little earlier.
    Were you watching the same series as everyone else? DWade just quit in frustration because he couldn't do jack **** against Paul in games 2 and 3. Wade's only saving grace was them figuring out that Paul could not get through a pick. They had to change their offensive strategy to beat us, if they didn't we were going to beat them in 5 games. It wasn't Bron and Wade who beat us but it was Spolestra out coaching Vogel.

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