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What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

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  • #16
    Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    I don't thick Lance will ever be a star. And I don't believe that it will be skills that prevents that nearly as much as "opportunity". I think that he will prove himself to be a valuable player off the bench. I just don't see much more than that because, other than his interim starting role for the Pacers, I don't see him performing at such a high level to enable other teams, nor the Pacers, from viewing him as anything more than that.

    To be viewed differently, he would have to do something that draws draws attention, including playing at a consistently decent level over time.

    But what do I know? Two years ago, I never would have guessed that the Pacers would still be picking up Lance's options. I thought he would be in street clothes by now. He has come a long way, both on and apparently off the court as well.

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    • #17
      Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

      Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
      Paul's borderline all star right now Blu, and he's nowhere near his prime. I'm a big Lance fan, and I'm glad to hear you are too, but let's not short change Paul. If he can just average close to 20 a game with his defense he's gonna be a star and be recognized so at a lot of all star games.
      At what position? He isn't going to be an all star as a small forward, there are just to many players way ahead of him. At SG, he is behind Wade and several others. I don't see him making any all star team in the near future..... ...

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      • #18
        Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

        Lance looked fine last night. Even jumped off the bench (in suit) twice.
        If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

        @LetsTalkPacers

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        • #19
          Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

          My thought after two games without Lance is that what really matters is whether Hill, West, and Hibbert play well.

          We're getting a nice boost from Paul lately. But we've still got the 30th best wing combination in the league right now and will until Danny gets healthy.
          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
          And life itself, rushing over me
          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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          • #20
            Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

            Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
            Granger has not play at an all star level for years and PG has not played at an all star level yet. When Granger comes back the defense instantly gets worse. Granger is on the decline and he has injury issues. Play him 20 minutes per game off the bench and you MIGHT get some value at him. I think Lance has the ability to be the best wing on this team and he is the only one with enough upside to become a super star. Lance is easily the Pacers most improved player and perhaps the most improved player in the entire NBA ...
            If Danny played the first 20 games like he did the last 20 of the regular season he would have been a nominee. But besides that you are willing to junk the season for what Lance MIGHT get to when we have two foreseeable capable players. I would understand your argument if it was out of injury concern. But to say we need to bench a 3pt specialist who has played defense in crunch time and rose above opposition for a player, who just now got into the rotation and out of the and1 mode?

            This conversation would make sense a year from now or in the offseason. But now it is glorifying a what-could-be for something that is more trustworthy.

            I guess we can agree on the values of current players and where they are at though.

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            • #21
              Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

              His cousin talked to me last night and said he will return next game.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                If Danny played the first 20 games like he did the last 20 of the regular season he would have been a nominee. But besides that you are willing to junk the season for what Lance MIGHT get to when we have two foreseeable capable players. I would understand your argument if it was out of injury concern. But to say we need to bench a 3pt specialist who has played defense in crunch time and rose above opposition for a player, who just now got into the rotation and out of the and1 mode?

                This conversation would make sense a year from now or in the offseason. But now it is glorifying a what-could-be for something that is more trustworthy.

                I guess we can agree on the values of current players and where they are at though.

                With Granger back, the Pacers are a middle of the road team in the NBA. They will make the playoffs and probably lose in the first round. That is not being a contender. Lance has the chance to be a superstar but he won't become that riding the pine. We have a good look at PG and he will be a good player but no star. He has gotten to start and lots of playing time to develop. Lance hasn't gotten that. The Pacers are not going to contend unless they get a star player. I think Lance has the best chance of becoming that of anyone on this team....... ...

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                • #23
                  Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                  Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                  With Granger back, the Pacers are a middle of the road team in the NBA. They will make the playoffs and probably lose in the first round. That is not being a contender. Lance has the chance to be a superstar but he won't become that riding the pine. We have a good look at PG and he will be a good player but no star. He has gotten to start and lots of playing time to develop. Lance hasn't gotten that. The Pacers are not going to contend unless they get a star player. I think Lance has the best chance of becoming that of anyone on this team....... ...
                  I like Lance.

                  The first game I ever saw Lance play in, yes summer league I know, I saw him and said that this guy above all others has a real chance to be a special player in the NBA because he has it all. Size, super long arms and an explosive first step.

                  However he had way to much Rucker Park in him to ever succeed at our level. Consider him like a Wild Stallion, all the power and glory but just untamed.

                  He had to break some of those bad habbits and now he is on the path to being a player. I don't know if he will ever realize his potential as a player but I still say he has all the tools.

                  Also I will say this, if he were drafted by a team that was nowhere near playing for the playoffs and they just gave him full reign to do whatever I think he would have already made a name for himself. It would not have translated into wins but he would have been known. Think Tyreke Evans here.

                  Now having said all of that my question to you is what is it that you see that makes you agree that he has the potential to be a star?

                  Now where I disagree with you is the perception that the Pacers with Granger are a middle of the road team. Unless you are saying he will make us worse, then I really disagree, but we are a middle of the road team right now without him. I think he would put us slightly above middle, not contender per se but still better than middle. Our bench is to weak for me to consider us a legitimate contender right now, however if he was back the bench dynamic would change one way or the other so it might even be better but I can't say for sure.


                  Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                  • #24
                    Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                    Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                    With Granger back, the Pacers are a middle of the road team in the NBA. They will make the playoffs and probably lose in the first round. That is not being a contender. Lance has the chance to be a superstar but he won't become that riding the pine. We have a good look at PG and he will be a good player but no star. He has gotten to start and lots of playing time to develop. Lance hasn't gotten that. The Pacers are not going to contend unless they get a star player. I think Lance has the best chance of becoming that of anyone on this team....... ...
                    I agree with Blu on this one. Not necessarily that we should bench Granger, but we should be looking for real opportunities to "Free Lance" and see if his tantalizing potential is the real deal or a mirage.

                    Danny can score and Paul is showing more promise as an all around all star. But neither of them have the ability to create or to see the floor the way Lance does. Lance has that Magic/Bird triple double constant threat that is unique.

                    Could he become a star? Don't know yet. I sure would like to find out and give it a fair shake. For starters, I would simply like to give him some freedom with the ball in the second unit as an incremental move to see what we have.
                    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                    • #25
                      Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                      Originally posted by Peck View Post
                      I like Lance.

                      The first game I ever saw Lance play in, yes summer league I know, I saw him and said that this guy above all others has a real chance to be a special player in the NBA because he has it all. Size, super long arms and an explosive first step.

                      However he had way to much Rucker Park in him to ever succeed at our level. Consider him like a Wild Stallion, all the power and glory but just untamed.

                      He had to break some of those bad habbits and now he is on the path to being a player. I don't know if he will ever realize his potential as a player but I still say he has all the tools.

                      Also I will say this, if he were drafted by a team that was nowhere near playing for the playoffs and they just gave him full reign to do whatever I think he would have already made a name for himself. It would not have translated into wins but he would have been known. Think Tyreke Evans here.

                      Now having said all of that my question to you is what is it that you see that makes you agree that he has the potential to be a star?

                      Now where I disagree with you is the perception that the Pacers with Granger are a middle of the road team. Unless you are saying he will make us worse, then I really disagree, but we are a middle of the road team right now without him. I think he would put us slightly above middle, not contender per se but still better than middle. Our bench is to weak for me to consider us a legitimate contender right now, however if he was back the bench dynamic would change one way or the other so it might even be better but I can't say for sure.
                      I think you are talking to OlBlu here, but my two cents is that Granger will make us significantly better. Granger is good. Maybe even real good. But not great.

                      The distinctions between a Granger or a PG and what Lance might become will only show up in the deep runs of playoffs. At that point, the great defenses really show up. At that point, guys like Granger and PG, who don't quite have the handles to overcome the pressure and make a play, keep us from advancing. Lance may have the ability to be that type of player. Besides the fact he has the size, talent, and ability, he also has a track record in New York for showing up in big moments.

                      These types of players are very rare. Only a couple show up in the draft every year. The Pacers rarely have a chance to sign one. Lance is still a longshot, but he's the closest thing we have, in my opinion, to a player who could get us over the hump into the ECF and then to a championship.
                      "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                      • #26
                        Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                        I' m becoming a Lance believer. More so every game. I would really like to see him back on the 2nd unit as a combp guard, ala George Hill. Lance can handle the ball well enough to keep Ben from being pressured bringing the ball up court. He is of the same value in the back court with Hill, but his vision, speed and strength would change the entire culture of the 2nd unit back to the Goonies, IMO. 24+ minutes a game for the next 10 games, staying on the floor with the 1st unit part of the time. Start Young at the 2 for defense, move Lance to the Goons as the primary playmaker and let him grow.It worked well for Paul George 2 years ago, and should do the same for Lance. Ben, Lance, IM, Tyler and Green/OJ. Give tham a try.
                        Last edited by Cousy47; 12-16-2012, 07:41 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                          Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                          The distinctions between a Granger or a PG and what Lance might become will only show up in the deep runs of playoffs. At that point, the great defenses really show up. At that point, guys like Granger and PG, who don't quite have the handles to overcome the pressure and make a play, keep us from advancing.
                          I must not have been watching the same playoffs as you the past two years. Neither year did I think "Wow, Danny Granger is really keeping us from advancing."
                          This space for rent.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                            Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                            I must not have been watching the same playoffs as you the past two years. Neither year did I think "Wow, Danny Granger is really keeping us from advancing."
                            The long layup seems to be making people forget. They hear all about how we're the #1 team defensively this season without Granger (and the last place team defensively). And forget that last year we were top 10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Last season George was still our best individual defender, but Granger got most of the big SF assignments.

                            Unfortunately, they also seem to forget that 5 games ago George was performing at a slighly improved clip, but now it seems we've gone back to the "We don't need Danny Granger" argument despite the fact that our offense is still terrible.
                            Time for a new sig.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                              What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?


                              not much!
                              Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                                It's really a small sample size. But the latest wins without Lance does not say anything about Lance, but says more about the starters. The starters are slowly adjusting to return to the last season's strength of that first 5.

                                Lance helped the starters somewhat as at some games he really provided the spark to make things happen. But the losses are due to the other starters not showing consistency on offense. Regardless of who's the replacement for Granger, as long as the plays run primarily for the other 4, it still depends on the likes of West, Hill, George and Hibbert to do the majority role in pushing the team to win. The bench does not really suck as they really show some moments. The problem is that they are playing together as another unit, more or less running the same plays like the starters do. That magnifies their individual weaknesses. But if the coaching staff improve the rotations or run unique plays that capitalize their strengths of the bench playing together as a different unit, we will really see how capable they are of holding their own.

                                As for Lance playing off the bench when he comes back and onwards, I would like him to be the "Paul George" of the second unit, meaning play him like they play PG right now. Let him drive and dish, or just let him shoot the ball more so he draws defenders and get others open for easy shots.

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