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Thread: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

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    Default Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    I have to admit I've been captivated by these protests / riots in Ferguson.
    Part of me hopes that these events will spur some sort of new movement on how the police should interact with citizens. It seems like the current police training is to just be very heavy handed, and not respect the rights of the citizens.

    We've seen incidents around these protests where the police are threatening to shoot protesters, drawing their assault rifles on crowds, aiming sniper rifles that could blow off somebodies head. Indiscriminately launching tear gas to disperse rioters and protesters. Media members and citizens being arrested for filming the police. But then not charged with anything and released an hour later. All of these are exposing major flaws in police training and procedure.

    I'm not even going to broach the subject of Michael Brown. I don't think all the truth is out there about what happened, and until there is some solid evidence that can string together the series of events, its just not worth speculating on.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?



    I'm going to guess that this thread isn't going to end well.

    I have my thoughts and opinions and all that - but it's just best to keep them to myself. SOMEONE will find fault in SOMETHING and all of a sudden, I get labeled and ................... it's just not worth the trouble.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    I'm going to guess that this thread isn't going to end well.

    I have my thoughts and opinions and all that - but it's just best to keep them to myself. SOMEONE will find fault in SOMETHING and all of a sudden, I get labeled and ................... it's just not worth the trouble.
    I am just wanting to discuss the events of the protest and how police are handling them.

    Don't you find it interesting that crowd control and riot dispersing has De-evolved to shooting rubber bullets into crowds, Pepper spraying non-violent protesters (UCLA), full sprint take downs, and tear gas?

    It used to be get out the fire hose and anybody who didn't run was arrested for disorderly conduct as the police line made its away down the street.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    A new weapon was tested that creates a ray that those in the way feel like they are being burned. As soon as they step out of the way the "pain" stops and there is no damage to the person. Would you rather they used this?

    On a seperate note: you as an independent bystander look at this and feel the way you do, how do you suppose the store owners of the area feel about the police tactics? Afterall, it is their shops that are being looted and burned. Do they not deserve to have their property protected? And, the equipment you decry is surplus (but new) from the war or so it is said. The tactics they learn come from the DOJ via the FBI.
    as an afterthought.....I have wondered if these communities would be happier if the caucasion cops refused to work in certain districts. Would they be happier if the cops said "I will not be put in a position where I may have to shoot someone and face this type of reaction."


    EDIT>>>> Man that was poorly written. And BTW, It was not meant to sound confrontational at all, merely wonderment.
    Last edited by indygeezer; 08-21-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?



    I honestly am sorry for the people of Ferguson, because they've basically become bystanders while out of towners (media included) looking to exploit the situation for personal/political gain agitate police and turn a peaceful protest/vigil into a low-rate 60's re-enactment.

    The police meanwhile are stuck in this mess because one of their own lost his mind and executed an unarmed kid, and of course among the thousands of law enforcement trying to control the current situation, odds are there's going to be a dumbass that cracks under the pressure and starts gassing innocent people or waving his gun around like a crazed lunatic...and of course that's the guy that gets on TV/internet.

    Shop owners deserve to be protected....lawful protesters probably deserve to not get gassed or shot with pellets, too. Ferguson PD had a very tough challenge that they obviously weren't equal to, which is why they got benched for the national guard.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-21-2014 at 12:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    A new weapon was tested that creates a ray that those in the way feel like they are being burned. As soon as they step out of the way the "pain" stops and there is no damage to the person. Would you rather they used this?

    On a seperate note: you as an independent bystander look at this and feel the way you do, how do you suppose the store owners of the area feel about the police tactics? Afterall, it is their shops that are being looted and burned. Do they not deserve to have their property protected? And, the equipment you decry is surplus (but new) from the war or so it is said. The tactics they learn come from the DOJ via the FBI.
    as an afterthought.....I have wondered if these communities would be happier if the caucasion cops refused to work in certain districts. Would they be happier if the cops said "I will not be put in a position where I may have to shoot someone and face this type of reaction."


    EDIT>>>> Man that was poorly written. And BTW, It was not meant to sound confrontational at all, merely wonderment.
    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    A new weapon was tested that creates a ray that those in the way feel like they are being burned. As soon as they step out of the way the "pain" stops and there is no damage to the person. Would you rather they used this?

    On a seperate note: you as an independent bystander look at this and feel the way you do, how do you suppose the store owners of the area feel about the police tactics? Afterall, it is their shops that are being looted and burned. Do they not deserve to have their property protected? And, the equipment you decry is surplus (but new) from the war or so it is said. The tactics they learn come from the DOJ via the FBI.
    as an afterthought.....I have wondered if these communities would be happier if the caucasion cops refused to work in certain districts. Would they be happier if the cops said "I will not be put in a position where I may have to shoot someone and face this type of reaction."


    EDIT>>>> Man that was poorly written. And BTW, It was not meant to sound confrontational at all, merely wonderment.
    These are interesting questions.
    i suppose the Ray Gun would be better than rubber bullets, pepper spray, and tear gas. All of those weapons can cause lasting injuries. It certainly hurts getting blasted with the fire hose too, so its not like there has to be a painless solution.

    As for the property owners on those streets. Certainly they deserve to have their property protected from looters and vandals, but what about the police firing tear gas canisters that land in peoples back yards? Nobody is saying that the these people should be free to trash the block. From what i've read, once the police break out the heavy handed tactics they are just indiscriminately deploying them regardless of who is in the way. If a handful of people on one side of the street are looting a store, why are the people way down the street being treated like criminals as well? I'm not sure the property owners what their street turned into a war zone with chemical weapons everywhere.

    I'm not sure why race even factors into the minds of the protesters, except they themselves must have experienced it from their dealings with police. I never understand the idea behind there are not enough black cops on our streets type of mentality. Police are police in my book, they out to get you.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    When an officer is caught on camera pointing a rifle at a non-threat and telling them he will kill them then there should be no excuses, no understanding, no paid leave, no sensitivity training, etc... Just a public firing to make the point that is not tolerated.
    Last edited by Bball; 08-21-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    All I shall say is that if the day ever comes where the vast majority of people stop trusting, believing and supporting our law enforcement as a whole (there will be some bad apples always), things will get ugly very quickly.
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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    I feel bad for the regular people of Ferguson who want to protest peacefully and their right to do so has been hijacked by radical outfits such as the Revolutionary Communist Party, which bused in demonstrators from Chicago who are obviously more interested in overthrowing the government than they are facilitating any measure of justice for the community. There is actually footage of a St. Louis Alderman participating in the peaceful protests punching and decking an RCP member for trying to start a violent confrontation.

    I understand this issue has national implications but at the same time I think the people of Ferguson have a right to protest peacefully and that while the police have engaged in questionable tactics, those tactics are in large result due to outside violent demonstrators that have instigated the police at the expense of ordinary people in Ferguson.

    I don't trust the police now and didn't before this occurred. Basically stems from a cop pulling his gun on me when I was 16, making me lay on the ground while he searched me for drugs, and screaming at me simply for being in an isolated park out in the country with my friends hanging out. The cop instigated the whole thing and I have avoided the police like Ebola ever since. Although my experience with police in DC is much better than with police in Indiana. Police in DC have real issues to handle and are not difficult to get along with, while oftentimes in Indiana outside of a few select problematic jurisdictions the police are largely looking to instigate problems with regular citizens.

    I also understand that people in Ferguson are frustrated and would prefer more African American cops. People are somewhat divided by race, it is just a fact of life that people are often afraid to admit. I am sure they feel the same way people in Carmel or Noblesville would feel if 90% of the police were AA.
    Last edited by idioteque; 08-21-2014 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    A new weapon was tested that creates a ray that those in the way feel like they are being burned. As soon as they step out of the way the "pain" stops and there is no damage to the person. Would you rather they used this?

    On a seperate note: you as an independent bystander look at this and feel the way you do, how do you suppose the store owners of the area feel about the police tactics? Afterall, it is their shops that are being looted and burned. Do they not deserve to have their property protected? And, the equipment you decry is surplus (but new) from the war or so it is said. The tactics they learn come from the DOJ via the FBI.
    as an afterthought.....I have wondered if these communities would be happier if the caucasion cops refused to work in certain districts. Would they be happier if the cops said "I will not be put in a position where I may have to shoot someone and face this type of reaction."


    EDIT>>>> Man that was poorly written. And BTW, It was not meant to sound confrontational at all, merely wonderment.
    I understand exactly what you are saying, and I think you did fine with it.

    As the thought (in the first post) about the de-evolution of the way protesters are treated....There was much worse going on in the mid-late sixties and early seventies. Not comparing the reasons behind any of the people being involved then or now, only the sad outcomes.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    I think the cops have come on a little too hard, and like someone said earlier the threats are inexcusable from someone who's job is to protect the public, but I also think the cops are getting a worse rap than what they deserve from the national TV crowd (CNN mainly). I have no problem with the tactics the police use, I would just look to cut down the extracurricular stuff such as the threats and not using the tactics as quick as they appear to be. I also believe the protests are very misguided considering our justice system uses the "innocent until proven guilty" theory, so how you can have hundreds of people saying lock him up when exactly 0 people know what happened there is beyond me. Apparently the cop also suffered a broken eye socket according to "sources". So I am not sure how good of a source it is or not, but take it for what its worth.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 08-21-2014 at 07:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    The biggest thing I have taken away is the federal goverment should have been trying to get cameras on cops or at least dash cams instead of handing out grenade launchers, assualt rifles, and armored vehicles.

    One would think that these cameras would be a welcome addition to police forces. I am sure the bad cops would hate them, but I think any other cop would be glad to have documentation of what occured. Something that simple would have cleared this whole situation up in a day after pulling the video off the camera. Heck, maybe these cameras could weed out the ones who are there for the power trip.

    Overally, I do not think either side of the issue has handled themselves well. The looting that has occured is unacceptable and just really gives their protests a black eye. The release of certain information and the harrasment of media members give the cops a black eye as well.

    When things like this happened I try to tell people to reserve judgement until more information comes out. I have friends and family on both sides who now that more information has come out look like fools.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    I do believe the caucasion prosecutor (who's father was murdered by a black man years ago) should recuse himself just to eliminate one more possible flash point. I do want to know more about the story of the officer receiving a severe beating by the dead man, enough to break an eye socket. To me, receiving 6 shots over a wide area of the body is not "execution" style. That would be 1 or 2 shots to the head usually from behind and most often while kneeling. MEH, unimportant.
    I know some don't like the store video of the strong armed robbery the dead man committed minutes before his killing, but it does show vividly that this was not some innocent teenage kid. This was a big big man that used his size to intimidate people. So, let's hear the rest of the story.
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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    6 shots into an unarmed person. End of story.

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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    The biggest thing I have taken away is the federal goverment should have been trying to get cameras on cops or at least dash cams instead of handing out grenade launchers, assualt rifles, and armored vehicles.

    One would think that these cameras would be a welcome addition to police forces. I am sure the bad cops would hate them, but I think any other cop would be glad to have documentation of what occured. Something that simple would have cleared this whole situation up in a day after pulling the video off the camera. Heck, maybe these cameras could weed out the ones who are there for the power trip.
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    Default Re: Ferguson, MO - your opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    6 shots into an unarmed person. End of story.
    It's not as simple as that.

    http://ktla.com/2014/08/20/hospitali...opes-are-high/

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