View Poll Results: What should the Pacers do at the trade deadline

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  • Shop draft pick/expiring contracts in search of a better option for the bench

    38 51.35%
  • Shop West for draft picks/young players

    12 16.22%
  • Stand pat and wait until Danny returns

    24 32.43%
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Thread: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

  1. #51

    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    A lot of what I would suggest is dependant on when and how Granger comes back. If he comes in before the deadline, we are still in the hunt for the playoffs, I probably stand pat. Even if we give Danny 12-20 mpg with the 2nd unit I think he makes a big difference for us. If the season is shot down by the time DG gets back, I would look at trading West to the Raptors for Calderon or Barngiani?sp. Salaries match and both would help us. Is there any way TPTB can staret dealing with West's agent befor the season is over to get an idea of what they are thinking? I really hate to see West walk for nothing at the end of the season.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    it should always come down to who are you trading and who are you getting, not just we have to do something. If we could trade Hansboro for Andre Miller I would take that without any second thoughts but if we are talking Paul George for Andre Miller I would say no way.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Our starting lineup of Hill, PG, DG, West, and Hibbert is championship caliber when running on all cylinders. Why mess that up when our bench is the culprit for our struggles both this year and last year? Our starters were easily top 5 in the NBA after Hill entered the lineup last season - our record proved that. They then took the champs to the brink. Didn't the starters even have a positive plus/minus in the Heat series? Combine that with the fact that the starters can improve even more - Hill, Hibbert, and PG all have room to grow (PG already has) and West has recovered from his ACL. I fully expect Hibbert's shot to eventually start falling, which is really his only statistical downfall this year - his defense is actually up. Danny is only 29 too. And unlike some, I believe West's style of play gives him at least another 2-3 years of solid play. I wouldn't touch the starting lineup unless you are certain Danny isn't coming back or West is leaving.

    The bench on the other hand is just brutal. Mahinmi, Lance, and Young are about the only bench players I would keep. Young isn't even that good, but he's cheap. Yes Hansbrough and DJ suck, but they do have value as expirings and I'm certain there are a few teams that would be intrigued by Hansbrough's flashes, youth, and energy. Green may have some minor value as well (he hasn't been terrible this year). We also have all our picks and some sweetner pieces in Plumlee/Johnson

    Some trade ideas:

    - Minnesota has 2 pricey backup PG's (Ridnour was likely on signed b/c of Rubio's injury) and now that Rubio is back, they may make a move for an expiring so they have money to spend this offseason. JJ Barea for an expiring and 2nd rounder may work. I'd throw in multiple firsts & Plumlee if Derrick Williams was in play too (I believe they will trade him)

    - Dallas would love to shed cap for next summer (sign two max players), so maybe Marion and Carter are in play for expirings/picks. Those two are off the books the following year when PG is up for a new deal. Both are still productive vets who know how to score. Maybe we snag Beabois in the deal.

    - Orlando will likely shop Reddick, who could likely be had for an expiring & 1st

    - I could see Atlanta, who is extremely thin up front, having interest in something centered around Hansbrough (additional pieces) for Devin Harris, who is likely leaving this offseason anyways. ATL already has Teague/Williams. Harris could be resigned and play an Andre Miller type role for us.

    Bottom line, if DG can get healthy and we can get some proven vets on our bench who can score, this team can contend. Isn't that what we are looking to accomplish, being able to contend? However, if for some reason management feels DG won't be back, or West implies he is leaving this summer, then yes, move West for the best package.

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=purdue101;1544915]Our starting lineup of Hill, PG, DG, West, and Hibbert is championship caliber when running on all cylinders. Why mess that up when our bench is the culprit for our struggles both this year and last year? Our starters were easily top 5 in the NBA after Hill entered the lineup last season - our record proved that. They then took the champs to the brink. Didn't the starters even have a positive plus/minus in the Heat series? Combine that with the fact that the starters can improve even more - Hill, Hibbert, and PG all have room to grow (PG already has) and West has recovered from his ACL. I fully expect Hibbert's shot to eventually start falling, which is really his only statistical downfall this year - his defense is actually up. Danny is only 29 too. And unlike some, I believe West's style of play gives him at least another 2-3 years of solid play. I wouldn't touch the starting lineup unless you are certain Danny isn't coming back or West is leaving.

    This is absolute nonsense. Our starters were not top five in the NBA last year and won't be this year or next year either. The Pacers played way over their heads and their record this proves that. They won a playoff series but they would have been swept by Orlando if Howard had not been hurt. The Pacers didn't take Miami to the brink. They won a couple of games while Miami made adjustments to playing without Bosh. Then Wade and James kicked it in gear and beat your supposed top five starters almost by themselves. At least get serious about what you say. This team with those starters was going to be fifth or sixth in the east this year because other teams did more with their starters in the off season. The Pacers, even with Granger would now be behind Miami, NY, Brooklyn, Boston, Philly and perhaps the Bulls when Rose comes back. I am very glad you are not a general manager of this team. You are drinking blue and gold koolaid.... ...

  7. #55
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1544922]
    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Our starting lineup of Hill, PG, DG, West, and Hibbert is championship caliber when running on all cylinders. Why mess that up when our bench is the culprit for our struggles both this year and last year? Our starters were easily top 5 in the NBA after Hill entered the lineup last season - our record proved that. They then took the champs to the brink. Didn't the starters even have a positive plus/minus in the Heat series? Combine that with the fact that the starters can improve even more - Hill, Hibbert, and PG all have room to grow (PG already has) and West has recovered from his ACL. I fully expect Hibbert's shot to eventually start falling, which is really his only statistical downfall this year - his defense is actually up. Danny is only 29 too. And unlike some, I believe West's style of play gives him at least another 2-3 years of solid play. I wouldn't touch the starting lineup unless you are certain Danny isn't coming back or West is leaving.

    This is absolute nonsense. Our starters were not top five in the NBA last year and won't be this year or next year either. The Pacers played way over their heads and their record this proves that. They won a playoff series but they would have been swept by Orlando if Howard had not been hurt. The Pacers didn't take Miami to the brink. They won a couple of games while Miami made adjustments to playing without Bosh. Then Wade and James kicked it in gear and beat your supposed top five starters almost by themselves. At least get serious about what you say. This team with those starters was going to be fifth or sixth in the east this year because other teams did more with their starters in the off season. The Pacers, even with Granger would now be behind Miami, NY, Brooklyn, Boston, Philly and perhaps the Bulls when Rose comes back. I am very glad you are not a general manager of this team. You are drinking blue and gold koolaid.... ...
    Heading into the Miami series, we were 12-3 once Hill came into the starting lineup. That's .800 and was tops in the league. It was very well documented by the national media too, particularly during the Miami series. Say what you want about the Miami series, but the majority of nationally recognized NBA reporters predicted us to win that series after game 2 or 3 - we clearly had them rattled. And to think, that team can improve (mainly PG and West).

    We are only 1.5 games back from 4th in conference without our best player, our starting C shooting almost 10% below his average, and one of the worst benches in the league. If anything, I think that shows you the value of some of our starters.
    Last edited by purdue101; 12-12-2012 at 07:20 PM.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=purdue101;1544930]
    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Heading into the Miami series, we were 12-3 once Hill came into the starting lineup. That's .800 and was tops in the league. It was very well documented by the national media too, particularly during the Miami series. Say what you want about the Miami series, but the majority of nationally recognized NBA reporters predicted us to win that series after game 2 or 3 - we clearly had them rattled. And to think, that team can improve (mainly PG and West).

    We are only 1.5 games back from 4th in conference without our best player, our starting C shooting almost 10% below his average, and one of the worst benches in the league. If anything, I think that shows you the value of some of our starters.
    Miami was never rattled. They adjusted and blew the Pacers away. Again, the Pacers way overperformed last year (management's words, not mine) and they were bound to come down this year with the current bench or with last years bench, it would have made no difference. Granger is the best scorer on this team but he isn't the best player any longer. He might not be coming back. The Pacers make the play offs as a 6 thru 8 seed and lose in the first round of the playoffs unless they draw a team minus their superstar like last year. You greatly overestimate this team and you were spoiled by last years success. The Colts are going to be the same way next year. They have way overperformed this year and that won't happen next year and they will win fewer games. Luck has stayed upright against all odds and he might not do that next year...... ...

  10. #57
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    This is absolute nonsense. Our starters were not top five in the NBA last year and won't be this year or next year either. The Pacers played way over their heads and their record this proves that.
    Actually it kind of proves nothing...

    We haven't seen our starting 5 this year...

    We lost one B level starter and look what happened to our record...

    Our bench is a bit crappier as well... But not by much... They were awful last year too...

    I still believe our complete starting five with a hopefully more cohesive bench could still make for one hell of a fighter this summer...

    And I think we'll have a much better win % by the end of the season... We're still making adjustments but we've been on a more upward trajectory lately...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1544969]
    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Miami was never rattled. They adjusted and blew the Pacers away. Again, the Pacers way overperformed last year (management's words, not mine) and they were bound to come down this year with the current bench or with last years bench, it would have made no difference. Granger is the best scorer on this team but he isn't the best player any longer. He might not be coming back. The Pacers make the play offs as a 6 thru 8 seed and lose in the first round of the playoffs unless they draw a team minus their superstar like last year. You greatly overestimate this team and you were spoiled by last years success. The Colts are going to be the same way next year. They have way overperformed this year and that won't happen next year and they will win fewer games. Luck has stayed upright against all odds and he might not do that next year...... ...
    I don't recall management saying we overperformed - where? From my recollection after the previous season, the goal was to win a playoff series, which we did. We had the 5th best record in the league and our bench, with the exception of backup PG, was terrible. If anything, that gives further credit to the starters. PG and West have since improved and Hibbert's shooting will come around. Hill is relatively flat from last year. If we can get Danny back and retool our bench, this team will be right back in the thick of things with the teams you referenced (Brooklyn, NYK, Boston, etc).

    The Pacers will never have a Lebron, Durant, etc., but starting 1 thru 5, we have above average players at all positions. The bench just sucks - I don't think ppl truly realize how bad they have been. If you look at 5 man unit stats, our starters have been really good this year, and that's with Stephenson instead of Granger. The bench has cost us at least 3-4 games, which would put our record in the 3/4 range of the East, and again, that's without Danny.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=purdue101;1545018]
    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I don't recall management saying we overperformed - where? From my recollection after the previous season, the goal was to win a playoff series, which we did. We had the 5th best record in the league and our bench, with the exception of backup PG, was terrible. If anything, that gives further credit to the starters. PG and West have since improved and Hibbert's shooting will come around. Hill is relatively flat from last year. If we can get Danny back and retool our bench, this team will be right back in the thick of things with the teams you referenced (Brooklyn, NYK, Boston, etc).

    The Pacers will never have a Lebron, Durant, etc., but starting 1 thru 5, we have above average players at all positions. The bench just sucks - I don't think ppl truly realize how bad they have been. If you look at 5 man unit stats, our starters have been really good this year, and that's with Stephenson instead of Granger. The bench has cost us at least 3-4 games, which would put our record in the 3/4 range of the East, and again, that's without Danny.
    Management released a statement saying that the Pacers overperformed last year. I know others here saw it too. It may have been when they started working on the bench. Yes, we have above average starters at their position. Contending teams have superstars in some of those positions and that is hwat makes the difference. We won't be retooling the bench, what you see is what you have. Granger is not going to help this much and I would have him playing off of the bench when he returns. That might help that group. I want to see Lance play and develop and see if he can be a star...... ...

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1545639]
    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Management released a statement saying that the Pacers overperformed last year. I know others here saw it too. It may have been when they started working on the bench. Yes, we have above average starters at their position. Contending teams have superstars in some of those positions and that is hwat makes the difference. We won't be retooling the bench, what you see is what you have. Granger is not going to help this much and I would have him playing off of the bench when he returns. That might help that group. I want to see Lance play and develop and see if he can be a star...... ...
    I'll believe it when I see it - I highly doubt management would downplay a teams success.

    The chances of Indy getting and retaining a superstar in our market are slim to none, why don't people get that? Lebron, Dwight, Rose, Durant, etc., aren't lining up to live in Indy. What else do you suggest we do? Trying to acquire above average borderline all-stars at each position is really our only option, and that's exactly what we're doing. You want them to tear it down only to rebuild it in similar fashion? A starting lineup of Hill/PG/DG/West/Hibbert had the best winning % in the NBA last year after Hill entered the lineup in early April. We finished 5th in the league in overall record for the season. Our starters had a positive +/- against the eventual champions. And to think, that lineup can actually improve (mainly PG and West, which has actually happened). You act as if we are miles from having a contending starting lineup when facts prove otherwise. I always rely on facts, not opinion.

    Look at the Grizzlies - similar market, similar limitations, similar approach of building a team, similar roster. The only difference is their bench is producing, Gay is on the floor and not in a suit like Granger, and Gasol is not in a shooting slump like Hibbert. That team is certainly contending material and proving the model works, just like we proved it worked last year.

    As is stands today, our team is #1 in defense %, #2 in points allowed, AND #1 in rebounding - we just can't score the ball. Our offense is 2nd to last, however our top scorer is out, Hibbert is in a terrible slump, and our bench is atrocious. I can guarantee you Hibbert won't shoot 37% all season long and I believe our bench can be improved via trades. So, assuming Danny returns, I believe we can certainly be a top team in the league considering our defensive/rebounding identity. If we could produce the same offensive efficiency as last year, which was only middle of the league, we would have a 6.4 point differential this year, which would be 2nd in the East.

    You're entitled to your opinion, all I'm saying is that facts/stats prove otherwise when it comes to our starters. We just need Danny back and a trade or two involving the bench - that is certainly within the realm of possibilty.

    From ESPN last year - "The Pacers have outscored opponents by 75 points with its starting lineup (Paul George, Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert, George Hill and David West) on the court together this postseason, the best plus-minus for any five-player combination in the playoffs. When any other combination of Pacers has been on the court, Indiana has been outscored by 48. In the Eastern Conference Semifinals, the starters are +47 and all other lineups are -74. "
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    Last edited by purdue101; 12-13-2012 at 04:57 PM.

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  16. #61
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Didn't think this deserved it's own thread, and it has some bearing on thoughts of the future for the team, so I figured I'd post it here even though it's slightly off topic. Looks like Plumlee is heading back the Mad Ants for the weekend.

    http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=11715

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    [QUOTE=purdue101;1545653][QUOTE=OlBlu;1545639]

    I'll believe it when I see it - I highly doubt management would downplay a teams success.

    Look it up, it is a fact that they said it but I don't recall which one of them said it..... ... I know others here have also commented on it. Perhaps one of them will read this and enlighten us all.... ...

    I agree with what you say about not getting a star. I disagree with your evaluation of the starters and stats can be made to say anything. When your starters get hammered by a team mostly going to their two superstars on every play, they are a top five starting team in the NBA. Stars, that is who wins most of the time. Check the winners for the last 25 years and note how few teams actually won a title. I don't believe in that plus or minus crap at all and I think it is the worst stat in all of sports...... ...

  19. #63

    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Although this thread got diverted into what did or did not happen last year, I'd like to see the Pacers do a Augustin/Pendy for Andre Miller with Denver. Hansbrough Duo to Minn. for Derrick Williams. Gives the Ps 2 starting caliber players for our bench and the 2 teams we are trading with some needed cap space to build around their youg groups. Possible?

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    Although this thread got diverted into what did or did not happen last year, I'd like to see the Pacers do a Augustin/Pendy for Andre Miller with Denver. Hansbrough Duo to Minn. for Derrick Williams. Gives the Ps 2 starting caliber players for our bench and the 2 teams we are trading with some needed cap space to build around their youg groups. Possible?
    No, it is not possible. You are trying to trade our crap for their decent or even very good players. They are not going to bite at that..... ...

  21. #65
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    Although this thread got diverted into what did or did not happen last year, I'd like to see the Pacers do a Augustin/Pendy for Andre Miller with Denver. Hansbrough Duo to Minn. for Derrick Williams. Gives the Ps 2 starting caliber players for our bench and the 2 teams we are trading with some needed cap space to build around their youg groups. Possible?
    Why would either Denver or Min. do those trades? Miller is a rotation player for them and a very important one at that & while Williams is sometimes not getting to play he still could bring a lot more in return that the Hansbroughs.


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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Sign Delonte West, craziness and all.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    I usually don't like trading 1st round picks, but this appears to be a pretty weak draft and we won't have a high pick anyway. I wouldn't mind trading our 1st for 2 good role players. When I say that, I mean like(not necessarily) Jarrett Jack AND someone else who would be an upgrade on our bench.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Have no idea why or if they would consider it. I get the idea that Minn. would like to move DWill, but the GM says not until Rubio comes back and they see how the team looks with him. Maybe Williams is growing up and just needs a faster pace?

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    I know a lot of people have mentioned trading West for young players....this will be problematic. Being a young team, like the Pacers are, we need some veteran presence. Trading away West could leave us with a bunch of young talent with no mentors...kind of like Minny and Sacramento
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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  29. #70

    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Anybody heard any rumors about some free agents or trades the pacers are interested in? I really think we need a solid bench scorer, anybody heard anything management is interested in?

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Anybody heard any rumors about some free agents or trades the pacers are interested in? I really think we need a solid bench scorer, anybody heard anything management is interested in?
    As long as Granger comes back healthy, I think a bench with Lance and Gerald Green is a good offensive start. If they pick somebody up, I'm not against it but I would prefer they wait until the offseason.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    We are not gonna win the east, but once Danny gets back and get his conditioning down I think we will be the team that no one wants to face in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I know a lot of people have mentioned trading West for young players....this will be problematic. Being a young team, like the Pacers are, we need some veteran presence. Trading away West could leave us with a bunch of young talent with no mentors...kind of like Minny and Sacramento
    - Agree completely. The average age of our roster is 25.5 years. In the history of the NBA, there hasn't been a single team to even make it to the finals with an average age below 26 years, with the average being 28.13. That's just making it to the finals, not winning. Yet several on this board want to trade the only player on our roster over 30, who also happens to be our most productive player AND our veteran leader.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/59079904@N06/5576584069/


    - Of past NBA champions over the last 10 years, only one team (Pistons 2004), didn't have a player in their starting lineup over the age of 30. In fact, most teams had anywhere from 2-3 players over the age of 30. The Pistons also had two players at 29 and their average age was higher than ours today.

    - Looking at the average roster age of each team for 2012-2013, the ten oldest teams in our league would all make the playoffs if they started today.

    Unless you are certain West is leaving this summer, trading him vs extending him would defy any reasonable logic.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    This team needs to worry about making the playoffs. Make the finals? Are you kidding? The finals are strictly out of the question this year, we need to try and set up a deep run for the future.

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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    - Agree completely. The average age of our roster is 25.5 years. In the history of the NBA, there hasn't been a single team to even make it to the finals with an average age below 26 years, with the average being 28.13. That's just making it to the finals, not winning. Yet several on this board want to trade the only player on our roster over 30, who also happens to be our most productive player AND our veteran leader.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/59079904@N06/5576584069/


    - Of past NBA champions over the last 10 years, only one team (Pistons 2004), didn't have a player in their starting lineup over the age of 30. In fact, most teams had anywhere from 2-3 players over the age of 30. The Pistons also had two players at 29 and their average age was higher than ours today.

    - Looking at the average roster age of each team for 2012-2013, the ten oldest teams in our league would all make the playoffs if they started today.

    Unless you are certain West is leaving this summer, trading him vs extending him would defy any reasonable logic.

    Interesting info. Does it say how productive those over 30 players were? Staters, reserves, end of bench players, big contributors, contributed little other than age?

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