View Poll Results: What should the Pacers do at the trade deadline

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  • Shop draft pick/expiring contracts in search of a better option for the bench

    38 51.35%
  • Shop West for draft picks/young players

    12 16.22%
  • Stand pat and wait until Danny returns

    24 32.43%
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Thread: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

  1. #26
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    It all depends on what the plan is with David West. If they intend on bringing him back, at what will be a bigger number, then you stand pat. Well, obviously you try to trade the guys not named Hill, George, Granger, West, and Hibbert to get a better bench but none of them have any value so that seems highly unrealistic. If they don't feel comfortable with what West is going to get on the open market, then you've got to move him and get back as much as possible.
    Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 12-12-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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  3. #27

    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Nothing is going to happen. As mediocre as the Pacers have been, once Granger comes back, the Pacers will be playoff bound. They aren't built well enough to get far, but they'll be in the playoffs. And that's all that matters to Walsh/Simon.

    If it were up to me, I'd shop West. I like the guy and he has basically carried the team since Granger went down and Roy Hibbert went into his annual funk, but this team needs to do a mini-rebuild. Granger's knee issues aren't going away and he turns 30 in April. The bench is awful and none of those players have any trade value at this point, save for maybe Lance and Ian (and even their value wouldn't bring back anything of significance).

    And there's no guarantee that West would re-sign here this offseason. And he's 32 years old. The Pacers need to try to move him while he's still playing well (And thus, still has value). A trade to a contender makes the most sense. The Pacers probably wouldn't be able to get anything they'd need from a contender, so a third team would probably need to be brought into the trade to get the Pacers the pieces they'd need to make the trade worth it.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    West and DJ for Bledsoe, Odom and pick.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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  7. #29
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    T. hans and DJ for DC2 and D. Jones?

  8. #30
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    West and DJ for Bledsoe, Odom and pick.
    I gave you a thanks, but the Clips have a really good PF. West isn't coming off the bench. I'm with you though, Bledsoe would be very very nice.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

  9. #31
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by kielbeze View Post
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    T. hans and DJ for DC2 and D. Jones?
    Why is that green?

    Do it Pritchard. lolz
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

  10. #32
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Look, even if Granger comes back, it's gonna take time for him to get into the flow of the game. Even if he comes back and doesn't need time, the bench simply isn't going to allow the Pacers to win a playoff series.

    West should be traded as his value is sky high. Getting young pieces can really help this franchise moving forward. It'll also save money allowing the Pacers to try and sign a PF through FA. Pacers really need to keep some cap flexibility. That'll allow them to help facilitate trades and get pieces that can really help. And it would allow for a bit more money to spend on that terrible *** bench.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    My first option was more trying to package our draft pick for an upgrade to the bench for a cure all THIS season, whereas trading David would be a move that would pretty much say this season is an L, lets plan for the immediate future
    A draft pick for this year is not worth that much, a package of Tyler+DJ and pick would bring you crap, also remember how incompetent the Pacers are in using expirings and draft picks to make deals.

  13. #34
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Hibbert and Stephenson for Leonard, Blair, and some veteran leader point guard that the Spurs have who is pretty decent

    I am not certain that there is an intense enough green available for this suggestion. Can somebody please work on that?

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  15. #35
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I gave you a thanks, but the Clips have a really good PF. West isn't coming off the bench. I'm with you though, Bledsoe would be very very nice.
    They would play a 3 man rotation of Griffin, Jordan and West in playoffs. West would get plenty of minutes and his beloved Chris Paul would be feeding him. This would give them a huge chance of winning the the WCF. It's a win win for Clips. But what do I know...
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  16. #36

    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    I think that many on this board are underestimating where the Pacers are at right now.

    The Pacers have the #1 defense in the NBA. Not top five, #1. Biggest reason for that? Our athleticism on the perimeter and our size inside (Hibbert/Manhimi).

    However, we are dead last in offense. Biggest reason for that? Our bench. They get MURDERED every game because they cannot get buckets. The starters are doing well. It's the bench.

    Here's the plan: Use the rookies and a 2nd rounder or two to make minor upgrades to the backup point spot. Wait for Granger to come back to push Lance to the bench (and Sam Young out of the rotation). Continue to develop Gerald Green. Hibbert will get out of his slump and Paul George will continue to improve.

    These are minor adjustments (except Granger's return) that hopefully will push the offense into the middle of the pack. That, combined with their #1 defense, will make this team formidable. Defense wins championships, right?

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  18. #37

    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    (And specifically to the point of this thread, we should make a minor trade to improve the backup PG spot for the reasons listen above).

  19. #38
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The first option in your poll is similar to the second one the only difference is the pick, the Pacers biggest expiring contract is West after that you have DJ and Hansbrough, I don't expect Tyler/DJ to give us anything of value back the Pacers only option is West.
    What makes you think the Pacers are serious about obtaining a major player? They had the chance to get a superstar earlier this season in Harden. They didn't make a move because they were not about to pay anyone $80 million. That attitude is what is currently and has always kept the Pacers from obtaining a major star..... Those opportunities don't come along very often...... ...

  20. #39
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    What makes you think the Pacers are serious about obtaining a major player? They had the chance to get a superstar earlier this season in Harden. They didn't make a move because they were not about to pay anyone $80 million. That attitude is what is currently and has always kept the Pacers from obtaining a major star..... Those opportunities don't come along very often...... ...
    I don't think you can get a major player with anybody the Pacers have, maybe Paul George? all I'm saying is that the Pacers need to get some value before losing West for nothing, maybe Walsh think nothing is better than something?

  21. #40
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Will you be surprised if the Pacers did nothing major at the trade deadline and let West walk at the end of season?

  22. #41
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    I think that many on this board are underestimating where the Pacers are at right now.

    The Pacers have the #1 defense in the NBA. Not top five, #1. Biggest reason for that? Our athleticism on the perimeter and our size inside (Hibbert/Manhimi).

    However, we are dead last in offense. Biggest reason for that? Our bench. They get MURDERED every game because they cannot get buckets. The starters are doing well. It's the bench.

    Here's the plan: Use the rookies and a 2nd rounder or two to make minor upgrades to the backup point spot. Wait for Granger to come back to push Lance to the bench (and Sam Young out of the rotation). Continue to develop Gerald Green. Hibbert will get out of his slump and Paul George will continue to improve.

    These are minor adjustments (except Granger's return) that hopefully will push the offense into the middle of the pack. That, combined with their #1 defense, will make this team formidable. Defense wins championships, right?
    That's assuming Danny is able to come back and contribute at his normal rate. If he isn't then there's no reason to believe our offense will be able to make it to the middle of the pack. Given the fact that his knee problem is more arthritic in nature (as I understand it) It's a 50/50 chance that he'll be able to do that.

  23. #42
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Will you be surprised if the Pacers did nothing major at the trade deadline and let West walk at the end of season?
    Unfortunately..no

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  25. #43
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Will you be surprised if the Pacers did nothing major at the trade deadline and let West walk at the end of season?
    Surprised? No.

    Disappointed? Yes.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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  27. #44
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    West to OKC for Lamb, Jackson, PJIII.

    Just sayin. hahahaha
    That's not a bad trade. I think OKC would jump all over that. If I was the Pacers though, I'd have to ask for one of the 1st round picks they got from Houston. So more like a Lamb, PJIII, Nick Collison and future 1st.

  28. #45
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    If we trade West at the trade deadline to "get something out of him" then the only way that we can get a similarly talented player is if we pick up somebody that's got multiple years on their contract. And if we're trading West because we want him out for cap space, it doesn't make sense for us to fill him with another player.

    I expect us to attempt to resign West and lower the cost of our supporting cast around them. If he wants too much then you hope that a core of Danny, George, and Hibbert is enough to carry us, maybe look to pick up a MLE player. I think the signings of Ian and Green where supposed to be our "long-term" bench players with lowish costs and we would fill the rest of the bench with minimum contract players and rookies on late-round pick contracts.

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  30. #46
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Also,to those that are saying West's value is sky high:

    Teams are more likely to try to snag him as a FA this summer then risk renting him for the rest of the year.

    Expirings are typically useful if the team is looking for capspace/someone they can cut out of the equation. Anybody that trades for West is likely interested in him longer term than one season, meaning they won't be wanting to give up quality pieces for a potential half year rental.

    Yes, his value is high. However, there's more to dealing for him than an "expiring" deal and his excellent production.

    Tyler, on the other hand, is a nice expiring deal that could net us a pick/veteran scorer. Hell, I'd be happy with cutting Tyler and signing Redd. Actually, cut DJ and sign Redd.

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  32. #47
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Surprised? No.

    Disappointed? Yes.
    My exact thought too.

  33. #48
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Also,to those that are saying West's value is sky high:

    Teams are more likely to try to snag him as a FA this summer then risk renting him for the rest of the year.

    Expirings are typically useful if the team is looking for capspace/someone they can cut out of the equation. Anybody that trades for West is likely interested in him longer term than one season, meaning they won't be wanting to give up quality pieces for a potential half year rental.

    Yes, his value is high. However, there's more to dealing for him than an "expiring" deal and his excellent production.

    Tyler, on the other hand, is a nice expiring deal that could net us a pick/veteran scorer. Hell, I'd be happy with cutting Tyler and signing Redd. Actually, cut DJ and sign Redd.
    Not if a team thinks he puts them over the edge with playoff contention, that's where teams always overpay and exactly where we need to be looking. I worry that that the team may be more concerned about "butts in seats" THIS season rather than future deep playoff runs.

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  35. #49
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    I'm not sure there's anything we can do that I would do. Obviously I want a better bench, but is that going to happen through a mid-season trade without losing a current starter? I don't think so.

    I mean if you wanted to trade Paul George for another big man to have a really good 3-man rotation up front, you could do that and patch the wings with roleplayers (basically, at best, a guy who can defend and hit open shots and play within the offense), but short of something like that I still like our healthy starting 5, so it leaves me with the following assets (some of which should be "assets" with the quotation marks at this point):

    Lance Stephenson
    DJ Augustin
    Gerald Green
    Sam Young
    Tyler Hansbrough
    Ian Mahinmi
    Ben Hansbrough
    Orlando Johnson
    Miles Plumlee
    Jeff Pendergraph
    2013 or 2014 1st round pick
    2013 2nd round pick
    2014 2nd round pick

    Basically, that's it. Short of packaging one of the above with a 1st rounder, I'm not sure an upgrade is obtainable with that bunch. Maybe Lance, Tyler, and a #1 could get you a really good backup 4? I'm not sure about that, though.

    So if it were me, I'd be fishing for deals like that to see if anything interesting came along, but odds are we're just stuck right now.

    Hopefully when Danny comes back and Lance plays with the backups again, that'll be enough to bring us back to how we were playing last year because at that point you have our very solid starting 5 and two worth-playing bench players in Lance and Ian, and you see how far they can take you if Ben, Gerald/Sam, or Tyler don't give you any more than they already are.

    I think we just need another summer rebuild for this bench. Let DJ and Tyler walk, maybe keep Sam Young around, you're stuck with Green, you want Ian, so see what you can do about the backup 4 and backup 1.

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  37. #50
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    Default Re: What should the Pacers do at the upcoming trade deadline?

    IMO, I would try to pry Millsap from Utah. They have four bigs they won't be able to pay. They have Bird Rights on him and if we traded for Millsap we would obtain his Bird Rights. Right now, that is so much more important to us than anything else, because we are going to be over the cap and relegated to MLE players or worse. Millsap IMO is going to get a deal in the 10-12M per year range, similar to Granger and Iguadala, but for four years. I don't know that the Jazz would actually make Millsap available, however and worry about what to do with their cap space after they sign him long-term. They also have to sign Jefferson, so they may have to make a decision on one of them. IMO, they should keep Jefferson, because he is more of a foundational player and Kanter and Favors will be able to be more positionally flexibile with Jefferson.

    IMO, I think the Pacers cap situation has been set up with a succinct plan going forward. The way that a lot of these contracts line up makes them affordable to keep going forward. Here is what I would do:

    I would trade for Millsap by sending Hansborough, our unprotected first, and Augustin. I think they could warrant signing both Jefferson and a much cheaper Hansborough and then give more minutes to Favors and Kanter and still have a great big rotation.

    I would offer West a four year, $28M contract. This is probably a discount for us in year one, but I don't foresee someone giving West a monster four year deal. I could see a two year deal in the 20-24M range, but then he will probably be relegated to smaller veteran deals as a 35 year old free agent. West will probably get offered the full MLE by a contender, so our offer of $7M per year pays him more than a contender could, yet gives West a little more longevity playing for a good team than a bad team with cap space is going to offer on a shorter deal. I think Millsap could help West be effective longer into his career. I think West is a consummate pro and would still get his 30 minutes per night. And we know he takes care of himself physically, so that makes me feel much better about paying him for four years.

    I would also resign Millsap for roughly four years and $44M. Millsap can move over and play SF to spell Granger and we can really shorten our rotation to four bigs/five front court players. Adding in three guards gives us a bad *** eight man rotation (Hill, George, and Lance?). Nine-man if you add Green for minutes during the regular season.

    I let Granger walk at the end of his deal and pay George. That or I would see if Granger would be willing to take something in the range of $6-7M, which is what we could afford. I would focus on drafting some wings and ball handlers over the next couple of years and the potential to make another trade if Plumlee develops well. Think a Mahinmi trade to free up cash to pay Granger if healthy.

    I just think that we have such managable contracts at this point, that we can be a sub-Luxury Tax team and still put out a very good rotation. I ran the numbers on all of these scenarios with future draft pick salaries and we can stay under the cap if we don't just throw money at guys. I'm looking at you Donnie and Pritch.

    Rotation:

    PG - Hill, Lance, -- Ben H.
    SG - George, -- Green, Johnson
    SF - Granger, -- Young,
    PF - West, Millsap, -- Pendergraph
    C - Hibbert, Mahinmi, -- Plumlee
    Last edited by pacergod2; 12-12-2012 at 01:59 PM.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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