"We should try to acquire some guys from the D-League and Bobcats," said Daryl Morey, never. (DJ and Green)
I'm merely pointing out that when you trash every decision, you're bound to be right a few times. It's like a broken clock, it's right twice a day.
And you hate to admit it but you know I'm right more times than not, there is a reason why you expend so much time trying to prove me wrong, keep trying.
Last edited by vnzla81; 12-09-2012 at 01:44 PM.
Last edited by Dece; 12-09-2012 at 01:54 PM.
I think Mahinmi in the end will be a good backup for us. I don't know how to judge the value of his contract so I'll just leave that for all of you cap experts out there.
But the way we obtained Ian is what I have a problem with. While I am no Vnzla81 (I'm not nearly as good looking) I was complaining this off season about our moves as well. I think this summer was one of the biggest missed opportunities that we have had in years if not in forever.
We had the juice to be a real player in the trade market and we could have dramatically improved our team by actually bringing in another B level talent (I consider West, Granger B level talent) or by bringing in some proven veteran experience to shore up the bench.
I to this day still believe that is why Larry Bird is not here, I believe he was ready to make this move & wanted to do it right now but instead our owner didn't want to make this type of a move so Larry is off playing golf now. I could be wrong btw, I have no real knowledge of any of this but my belief is Larry was ready to go from upstart team to legitimate contender.
Someone is going to say "well Mr. Smarty pants what moves are out there and be specific because Dwight Howard wasn't coming here". That's fair btw; it’s easy to say that moves could have been made without giving any real ideas about what those trades are.
First and foremost I don’t care what we promised George Hill or Roy Hibbert agent we missed Louis Scola by two days. George Hill was a restricted free agent who frankly was not going to get the type of money anywhere else and even if he did we could have matched it with no problem. Sure it may not have felt as good as the press conference with him and Roy but guess what he would have gotten over it the first time he got a deposit in his bank account.
This wasn’t just a mistake, this was a huge colossal blunder IMO. Louis Scola is almost a B level talent himself (you could even make the argument he is) and you could have signed him without giving up a single asset. He easily could play the backup four or even backup five spot and give you far more than what you are getting right now.
They could have just signed Mahinmi and thus leaving Collison as what I think he should have been all along, trade sweetener to get rid of Tyler Hansbrough. Tyler played well at the beginning of the season but overall I just don’t see his long term use. I’d much rather have a backup of Mahinmi & Scola than Mahinmi & Hansbrough. I would have looked to Utah as a trade partner there as they have an abundant supply of big men that you might have been able to work out some deal for.
Now your going to say that this is all fine and good but none of this dramatically improves the club. I’ll disagree btw I think Scola would have dramatically improved the club. But if your looking for players that could have been brought in well nobody knows for sure but I have always had a sneaking suspicion that there was a trade to be made for John Wall. What would it have taken? I don’t know but honestly I think the Wizards are going to say no they are building around him but in truth would entertain the right deal for him.
Would he be a difference maker on our team? I think so. It wouldn’t come cheap because they would want real assets for him but I believe we had the assets to do it or something like it.
I never got the Green signing and frankly I never liked Augustin. But at the end of the day they are Pacers now, management decided that this was the way to go so while I don’t have to like it I either have to accept it or move on.
I don’t like the off season moves but I will say that I think they probably did think that these players would be better than they are and honestly if Granger were here and healthy we would probably be 14-6 and one of the top teams in the East.
But those were just some of my ideas about this past off season. The only thing that concerns me long term though is if Herb really truly is not willing to make dramatic moves and that is why Bird is gone. Now notice I didn’t say Herb was willing to spend, he is willing to spend.
I'll stop disrupting the thread now.
DJ sucks, he's horrible, he needs to sit. Everyone else will benefit from it.
I gave you one example, and noted V admitted he was wrong on it. If this is an ongoing thing, all 3 of us have been on this board for years, surely you must have other examples you could cite to prove your point? Or are you just *****ing about V for the sake of *****ing? Cite examples or you're just crying for the sake of crying, period. I find you're not worth my time. I'm going to put you on ignore because you have not been able to contribute beyond crying about V. I'll take you off in a month, maybe you'll learn how to post constructively sometime between now and then.
Last edited by vnzla81; 12-09-2012 at 04:01 PM.
That's not even a good example, though, that's a counterexample. I mean sure, you were wrong, but you were wrong because you were HAPPY and thought it was a good move, not because you trashed it. The argument is you trash everything. (referencing DJ)
I never understood the point of tearing down the 2nd unit to make it bettter. DC and DJones were usable rotation players with chemstry with the group. Mahinmi or some one better could have been signed out right. Just adding IM would have gone a long way toward solving the problems with the unit and given us one personality to blend in instead of 4. DC or even AJ would have been a better leader on the 2nd unit than DJA has turned out to be. I guess I was just very susprised that we didn't try to shore up the PF position in the offseason instead of replacing the other 4 positions.
I've used up enough energy on this subject. I usually don't get into any back and forth on here, but I enjoy it every now and then. I respect everyone's opinions and the fact that each of us have the same goal.
I think the poorness of the offseason has actually been hidden somewhat by the idea that Danny Granger would make a huge difference in things. I agree he'd make a difference but I don't see it being that big of a difference. It would just allow us to truly judge how bad the off season was or was not.
And for those of you who have bitten on the Walsh excuse of 'small market... small market' that he has fostered so well we had the perfect opportunity with last season's record, 2nd round playoff experience, and cap space to make a difference in that equation. You don't see the Colts playing this small market pity party game.
Granger has been on the decline, maybe it's been because of his knee, and I just don't see him being the kind of difference maker we'd need to overcome the problems we have. It's not like we're waiting on Michael Jordan to return, or Hakeem, or even Reggie Miller.
Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
Yeah, I don't see how it's really possible to do less than what the Pacers did this off-season considering the assets and cap space they had.
No one can convince me that signing guys like Augistin and Green were good moves. We don't need young guys who have spent the bulk of their careers on crappy teams. We have an extremely solid young core of players with a solid older vet in West. Granger would still be considered relatively young if not for the unfortunate injury. What we needed were some players who have proven themselves on good teams. At the very very least, we needed some old vets off of the bench who have won before and who you can count on to have composure in a playoff series. Augistin and Green are not those players.
They were poor signings, and they were not the type of signings that a team makes if if its trying to substantially improve its roster with resources/cap space like we had this summer.
Bird brought us back to respectability, but IMO, there was no point (from his standpoint) in him hanging around any longer if his only task was to nurture a solid team. I think that continuing to do it was only going to be worth it for him if he knew he could go pedal to the metal and do whatever he wanted to get this team to the next level. You don't go from saying in late May that you'd "do it today (come back) if Herbie was here" to deciding to walk away just a few weeks later unless something substantial happens. I'll always be convinced that something happened during the meetings with Simon.
Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-09-2012 at 11:44 PM.
I'm not sure what you guys were expecting with the cap room. Once Roy and GH was re-signed, there wasn't a whole lot of cap room left. Only about 8-9million
So what players would have been better signings with that amount of cash? That's to fill 3 positions btw, so one good bench player eats up pretty much all of it. Choose wisely.
However, if we were to only be working with 8-9 mil I'd say sign Kaman to a 3/24 deal and call it a day by keeping the rest of our bench as it was. We'd be far better off right now.