We have an excellent core of young players with an good old vet in David West. What this team needed is some veterans off the bench who have won before in the playoffs. Barbosa and Dhantay weren't the best players ever, but they did bring that valuable experience as both have been on deep playoff runs. Green and Augistin weren't the type of players that we needed. We need a Rasheed Wallace or a Jason Kidd. Or to use an old Pacer example, a Byron Scott. I would give anything to have an old champ on this team.
Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-08-2012 at 11:30 AM.
Green is just struggling. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He's played very well in some games, he's played good in others, and then there are times that he deserves to be sent back to the DLeague during a timeout. He just makes some really bad decisions at times. He's already shown the ability to grow, so I don't think it's a lack of ability.
DJ will figure it out offensively in time, if he ever gets another shot, but his defense is enough to want him out. I'd take DC back any day, assuming he'd be a happy guy. I'm with Wells on this one, time to give Ben a run. He can't possibly be much worse, and his style of PG play is more akin to Hill's.
Kmart for 1.4 or Brand for 2mil instead of Ian 4mil.
CJ Watson 900K instead of DJ 3mil.
Barbosa 1mil instead of Green 3mil.
Young is the only cheap decent player they got, he only makes 800K so whatever he brings is gravy, by the way how many more games do we need to call this off season a fail? 70 games?
Why would we want an aging backup 4 to be our backup 5 instead of Ian? Makes no sense.
A guy that averaged 5.2 and 4.3 last year for the Clippers and he is saying that he is fine with veteran minimum why not? he is a better rebounder, he is a better defender and a better scorer than Ian.
Note: I know some are going to say that I'm contradicting myself for wanting Martin but is different to want an old guy to be a bench player for the minimum for one year than want an old player to be your starting power forward for years to come for about 10/12mil a year, Huge difference.
Why would we want to give a guy who's ceiling is career backup big a 4 year contract? You are far better off getting 1-2 year contracts on superior veterans, often on lower salaries.
A little side note. In the first half the bench + Hill was more or less neutral. They played together for somewhere between 2 and 4 minutes, and came out with a -1. Then in the second quarter DJ came in, and everything went to ****. Even when starters came back in everything was still **** until DJ was on the bench.
I don't understand what Green has done to deserve the amount of hate he is getting. Other than a slow start, and one mental mistake that cost us the game he has been at worst a neutral player. He might not be living up to expectations, but he isn't having a consistent negative effect on the game.
I think as far as Green a reasonable expectation would be he would provide some consistent scoring punch off the bench. His major accomplishment with NJ was low teens off the bench. So far, so underwhelming there and I don't see much contribution anywhere else, which actually I don't find that surprising b/c, AFAIK, the guy did not have a rep as being too great at anything but shooting/scoring.
Yes, they were imperfect, but IMO DC, Dahntay, Barbosa, and Lou had a much more positive affect on our overall team play than what our current bench had done so far. It's not even close. And you cannot convince me that this bench improves that significantly even with Lance (when DG returns).
The front office wanted to upgrade the bench after the starters dominance in their minutes v. Miami in the playoffs. They acquired four new guys currently seeing action, and the unit is worse so far than what we had.
I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
Even if Green is "neutral" paying him 3mil a year to be "neutral" is a huge fail.
If anyone is expecting any moves then you best dial it back- This team is hovering around .500... still has a chance at the playoffs... has a built in excuse for coming up short ("We didn't expect Danny to miss this much time").... AND has Donnie Do Nothing Walsh running things. He'll be more busy preparing new contracts and checks for the existing players than actually talking to anyone about any trades.
Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
So far this year Mahinmi's field goal percentage has gone way down, he's getting to the line more, his blocks have gone way up, and his turnovers have gone way up. Hard to say how he'll settle out. But even if he turns out to be bad, Martin is not a good option to replace him. He was terrible last year and is 35, and then you add in that nobody wants him (which at least provides a clue of how he currently looks on the court in addition to the numbers). Plus, the Pacers need a player like Mahinmi for things like covering Dwight Howard when Roy goes out with foul trouble. Martin can't do that for them.
I wish Bird was still running things. I never felt that he was content. He always wanted more. Over a year and a half span, he added DC, Paul George, George Hill, and David West. We didn't lose anything of value over that time span either.
Checkbook Donnie in charge of negoiating DWest, Granger, and Paul G's coming contracts scares the carp out of me. I'm so afraid he'll bury the Pacers in cap hell again, then walk out the door leaving the Pacers for years saddled with no way to do anything until contracts expire.
these are some general observations:
every player has had some off nights. this is totally understandable. however, of all the guys who are in the regular rotation, dj has been by a large margin imo- the absolute worst. i am more than ready to give ben a shot instead. he may be a rook but, i am willing to see him give it a go as i don't see how he could do much worse as that would be impossible as far as i can tell.
i agree with most of those who say tyler has made substantial improvements on defense. this was absolutely necessary as it has been really bad since he got here. thing is though even while his mid-range 10-17 foot jumpers were inconsistent then- now they are non-existent. i swear i haven't seen him hit one this year despite trying several times. this is an absolutely essential aspect to his game given his physical limitations. imagine if west had no jump-shot? he would not start anywhere if he didn't. and this is something else about tyler that bugs me, he is never going to be more than a mediocre rebounder at best. i see him play around 15 minutes a game and he seems to rarely pull down more than 1-2 rebounds. i worry donnie will go into his "we gotta re-sign our guys mode" and bring him back but, unless i saw something more than i have seen already- i am not interested in bringing him back.
frank has still shown a desire to go all bench and i don't think that is ever going to work out with this group. i am on board with the "we need at least 2 starters out there whenever possible" and his stubborn refusal to call timeouts when other teams make their runs troubles me. back in the day, bob knight used to do this at IU and i swear far more often than not- the whole "they gotta figure it out on their own" backfired. i remember some saying phil jackson did it this way too but hey, phil jackson also had the luxury of having some of the absolute greatest players of all freakin time on his teams and that makes a HUGE difference and you can afford to play it that way when you got guys like jordan and shaq playing for you.