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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

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    Default Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Once again I have to be somewhere in the morning so we are just going to do the bulletpoint version of Odd Thoughts tonight.

    But before I go there I just want to make sure I say this here in case I don’t say it later, our bench sucks.

    • For everybody blaming Lance for missing that one free throw let me remind you of the end of the first half blown layup by Paul George. There were two points left hanging on the board that I would like to have right now wouldn’t you?
    • Our bench as a unit is just terrible, for the life of me I do not understand why Frank thinks he has to play them as a group. I understand that you have to give the starters a break but even if he has to rotate them out one at a time he is going to have to change this.
    • If I never see D.J. Augustin play again it will be too soon for me. Since this was the 20th game I think we have enough of a sampling to say that this isn’t working. I’m not kidding when I say this; he is playing himself out of the league right now.
    • Great defense or not Roy has got to stop having 30% shooting nights. On occasion I understand but this is unacceptable. Some of his misses are put back attempts so he gets a little break there but if nothing else just rebound the ball and kick it out if you can’t go up strong with it.
    • This wasn’t George Hill’s strongest shooting night either but he did outplay Lawson significantly. I’m not thrilled he didn’t know we were down three but I can’t be upset with him for shooting that shot because time was gone. He can be blamed though for being to blatant in an attempt to draw a foul, refs are probably not going to call that on most nights.
    • Speaking of which, I wonder if Danny will hear from the league office for verbal abuse of the refs. After the game was over Danny went out on the court and berated them for a good 3-4 min before finally leaving.
    • Also on the foul called on Lance going against Miller I thought Frank was going to attack someone. He jumped up yelled very loud curse words that all of us on our end the floor are now going to have to go to church for and he even accidently kicked Dan Burke in the process.
    • If you have ever wondered allowed that Faried might be as good as David West you may now never ask that question again, ever. I did not realize how small he was prior to tonight either; David West dwarfed him in both size and height.
    • Our bench totally blows
    • Gerald Green played 12:33 and I have no idea what he did.
    • However as crappy as Green was let me give you this wonderful stat line by Hansbrough. 1 rebound (that was his positive contribution) 3 fouls 1 turn over and 1 humiliating shot that was actually blocked back in time by McGee. BTW Tyler was the only person in the fieldhouse who didn’t see that block coming.
    • But not to be outdone in the race to see which bench player sucked the most was D.J. Augustin who had as many turnover (3) as he did points (1) & assists (2) combined not to mention being played like a kettle drum by Andre Miller on defense.
    • Neither Sam nor Ian had good games but at least the two of them didn’t totally embarrass Dr. James Naismith the way the other three did.
    • Our bench is just horrid
    • Lance Stephenson had good and bad moments; more good than bad IMO but I know Seth wasn’t happy with his end of the game ball handling. I wasn’t as upset but I see his point. Still though I like it when he attacks the basket, he would have only hit that one free throw.
    • Paul had a decent game, I don’t think it was as good as his final stat line shows (he hit a lot of three’s tonight so IMO that always inflates things but hey he hit them so you can’t take that away from him) but I will also say that he was being defended by an Olympic caliber defender. BTW he was wide open in the corner if only West would have seen him for a shot to end the game.
    • David West was on pace to become all world in the first half. Didn’t miss and was hitting from everywhere. But in second half slowed way down and by the 4th quarter he not only was not hitting he was actually missing some defensive assignments. The Nuggets went small and I think it threw him off.


    Sigh, back to .500% with our next game facing the Thunder.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Good summary. If you just called for Donnie Walsh's head for squandering a huge amount of cap space on this down graded bench it would be perfect.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    I hate it when we play Gold Dust



    and lose.
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    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If I never see D.J. Augustin play again it will be too soon for me. Since this was the 20th game I think we have enough of a sampling to say that this isn’t working. I’m not kidding when I say this; he is playing himself out of the league right now.
    I was thinking the same thing after the 2nd quarter. I'm ready for Ben Hansbrough to try to be the backup, or let Lance run the point, or trade DJ with someone else for another backup. Anything but more DJ "the Troy Murphy of point guards without a shot" Augustine.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Once again I have to be somewhere in the morning so we are just going to do the bulletpoint version of Odd Thoughts tonight.

    But before I go there I just want to make sure I say this here in case I don’t say it later, our bench sucks.
    • Our bench as a unit is just terrible, for the life of me I do not understand why Frank thinks he has to play them as a group. I understand that you have to give the starters a break but even if he has to rotate them out one at a time he is going to have to change this.
    • If I never see D.J. Augustin play again it will be too soon for me. Since this was the 20th game I think we have enough of a sampling to say that this isn’t working. I’m not kidding when I say this; he is playing himself out of the league right now.
    I believe the above are the two most important topics to discuss.

    I am also baffled by the substitution patterns. I trust Ian and Tyler on the floor when they are playing with 2-3 starters. But 4-5 subs on the floor together is far more often than not going to end in disaster. I think Frank needs to always have West or Hibbert on the floor and to adjust his substitutions accordingly.

    DJ can't play in the half court for crap. He can get out on the break quickly, but big deal... so can Lance. So therefore, I don't believe there is anything that DJ adds that Lance cannot bring. He'll, at this point I would play Ben before DJ. Most of us have also surmised that the next time DJ plays good positional defense will also be the first time that we know of that he has attempted to play positional defense. I'm 60, 6-1 and 265 (I've dropped 40# thank you very much) and my still fat arse could do a better job of preventing lane penetration than DJ. Well, at least my fat butt would make someone pay a heavy physical toll with my 6 fouls when they tried to get into the lane.

    From my perspective, if Vogel is going to play his starters for 36 minutes or so, it shouldn't be all that hard to keep 3 of them, including one front court guy, on the floor at all times.

    Jeesh it will be nice to get Granger back. At least that will add one more player to the bench that can be trusted. And since that player will probably be Lance, maybe by then we will have seen the last of DJ. He just simply does not fit with our second unit.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    As bad as DJ was tonight, (and he was AWFUL) I can still name three people on the court who did worse:

    Monty McCutchen
    Courtney Kirkland
    Derek Richardson

    NONE of these guys should be calling a high school JV game, much less a NBA contest.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Honestly someone in the D-League has to be better than Augustin right now.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Can we please stop complaining about the refs? Getting redundant...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Can we please stop complaining about the refs? Getting redundant...
    Normally I agree with you. McCutchen was OK. But Kirkland and Richardson were epic-ly [sp?] awful. Even given how bad they are normally.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • If I never see D.J. Augustin play again it will be too soon for me. Since this was the 20th game I think we have enough of a sampling to say that this isn’t working. I’m not kidding when I say this; he is playing himself out of the league right now.
    I was excited to get him, but wow what a disappointment. Cant shoot, cant defend, and cant even find an open man. Ben Hansbrough please.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Koufos, McGee, and Brewer putting up big scoring numbers kept the Nuggs in the game and Dre was beastly at the end. I'm not sure I'm upset about the loss, since it gave us an example of that one-man fast break brilliance that McGee will occasionally bestow upon us mortals.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by PD GameBattles 2k13 View Post
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    I was excited to get him, but wow what a disappointment. Cant shoot, cant defend, and cant even find an open man. Ben Hansbrough please.
    I don't get it. I'm so baffled and confused at how bad he's been this year. It's like space jam, someone just stole his abilities and he forgot how to play. I dunno man...maybe he just doesn't wanna be here. Let him go back to the kitties then.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Where is the Augustin that we used to know?

    That bench the Nuggets have, can I get one of those for Christmas?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    It's so bad about Augustin that in today's star blog Mike Wells is now advocating Ben Hansbrough.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    it is time i think we should all start campaigning it

    #FREEHANSBOROUGH
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    If Vogel would do in the first half what he did in the second half and pull two starters early (between the 5 and 6 minute mark) that would help the substitution patterns a little bit. Otherwise, I'm not sure what more he can do. The bench played together for just over 3 minutes in this game. Hibbert playing so few minutes really hurts in this regard. '

    The starters are usually going to play at least 18 minutes together. First 6 minutes of the game, first 6 minutes of the second half, last 6 minutes of the game. The starters really can't afford to play together any more than that if the Pacers want to have at least two starters out there at all times.

    The extreme solution would to have a starter still play starter like minutes but come off the bench, and the obvious candidate would be David West. I'd be interested to see the numbers though when West plays with the bench because the perception I get is that he is not as effective as the main (only) option in that group though. Otherwise, that would go a long way to making sure that starter like talent was on the floor at all times.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    I didn't know Frank could be so salty on the bench. First I've ever heard of it.

    Sam Young thinks he's Kobe at times.

    Also, Frank pulled Lance after Lance played decent defense and did get called for a foul, but there was no penalty. Frank subs in Young and Miller immediately jukes him for a wide open 10 footer that he drains. I get that Frank is trying D for O and all that, but Lance had played pretty good defense. Young failed. And all that can affect a player's confidence.

    Lance did do some nice things at the end, but really blew it by missing the foul shot. Huge difference between a two and three point deficit for the final play.
    .

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Lance seems to do more good than bad. I can't understand how Lance has such a short leash and a guy like Young has such a long one. I'm glad Lance was a bit more involved on offense, but he's too passive sometimes. He got that o-board and immediately threw it away...why not just float it toward the basket for goodness sake.

    Roy should always kick out any offensive rebound. My God, I don't think he's made a put back this entire year. I don't see many games since I live in Atlanta, but I don't understand how one can miss so many. Just ridiculous.

    Hill hasn't been shooting the ball well, but he's quietly put together some decent games. PG and West have been pretty good. Just would be nice for more than 2 players in any given game to play well. First it was Hill and West for most of the season and now it seems to be PG and West for the past couple of games. Just so frustrating.

    Bench is turrible. Ian, for the most part has been pretty good. He didn't score much, but he rebounded the ball well last night. Young has been good in stretches, but can't pass at all and thinks he's Kobe out there.

    Green, Tyler and DJ has been pretty abysmal.

    Ideas for backup pgs:
    -Mike Bibby should be cheap. His defense can't be as poor as DJs, and the dude can shoot.
    -Any chance Jimmer Fredette could be had? He's playing for a bottom feeder team and seems to be a pretty bad fit for the Kings.
    -1st for Reggie Jackson...my ideal choice. He's buried on that OKC bench.
    -Jose Calderon? He's expensive, but will a deal of DJ + Tyler + Pends(probably needed to make the money work) + 1st for Calderon + Ed Davis work?

    That's really all I got. What I do know is, is that the GM better do something about that bench and soon. They are single handedly killing this team. Starters have to play too many minutes and get gassed in the final minutes. That's probably why this team performs so poorly late in games.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I didn't know Frank could be so salty on the bench. First I've ever heard of it.

    Sam Young thinks he's Kobe at times.

    Also, Frank pulled Lance after Lance played decent defense and did get called for a foul, but there was no penalty. Frank subs in Young and Miller immediately jukes him for a wide open 10 footer that he drains. I get that Frank is trying D for O and all that, but Lance had played pretty good defense. Young failed. And all that can affect a player's confidence.

    Lance did do some nice things at the end, but really blew it by missing the foul shot. Huge difference between a two and three point deficit for the final play.
    This one substitution p*ssed me off more than anything... that was great effort by Lance on that play and he immediately gets yanked... looked like he was going to leave, standing at the tunnel for a second, and the Young goes in and immediately gets left in the dust around that pick... heck, I don't think they even needed the pick.

    As far as Lance's missed FT, let's not forget Roy went 1-2 twice on FT appearances late in the game.

    The other frustrating thing, Hill's pull-up 3 from four feet from the top of the key which started our slide and the fact that he didn't even have to lean into Brewer on the last shot, he could've set up cleanly without the block... as close as the leaning shot was, I bet he hits it if he squares.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    I prolly shouldn't comment on this game but after sleeping on it and watching the game again, I must say this.

    Frank got out coached once again on several different levels throughout the game.
    And in the last 4 seconds, as soon as he saw Hill run pass the 3 point line, Frank should have called timeout.

    And just what was Hill thinking, wait a second, he wasn't. Not only did he not know the score, he didn't even know how to call a timeout. He couldn't see past 5 feet to see Paul wide open. He wasted the most important 8 seconds of a game like I haven't ever seen before. I really don't remember a time quite like that (not with a timeout remaining).

    George and Frank =

    .

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    It's so bad about Augustin that in today's star blog Mike Wells is now advocating Ben Hansbrough.
    I am glad people are finally coming around on having someone else be the back up guard. At least Ben will be feisty.
    The worst part on DJ is he is so bad on defense.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    For me, the huge disappointment is you have all this cap space. You have an obvious need for a difference making player. You get nobody even close. We get a collection of guys who, best case, are marginally POTENTIAL (yes the dreaded P word) guys.

    And, please don't misunderstand me, I do not necessarily mean the top echelon talent FAs, although heaven knows that would be nice. Even a guy destined for our bench unit who occasionally helped us win a few games and otherwise could offer a consistent contribution. Maybe someone along the lines of, say, a Dre Miller type.

    As much as he sucked v. the Heat last year, Barbosa was much closer to that than anyone we have now. In fact, our previous bench's performance was obviously much better than this season so far, although that required a move to get Barbosa.

    So, hopefully there's one forthcoming because, even assuming we get DG back and back up to his normal level this year, I don't see moving Lance to the second unit as providing what we need. Although, he would of course be better than DJ.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    I am starting to think every play needs to be a David West mid post where he goes to his left and does his little half hook. I dont think he has missed that shot in three games.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    I know everybody is pilling on DJ(including me) but the more I think about it the more I come with the conclusion that DJ's struggles are a combination of many things, 1st) Vogel has the second unit playing at the same tempo the first unit plays, DJ is an up tempo kind of guard, 2nd) the bench unit is garbage, who he is going to pass the ball to? Young so he can jackup a fadeaway 3 pointer? Green so he can take one of those off balance shots? Ian and his butter hands? Tyler the guy that can't hit a jumper to save his life? Call me crazy but not even Nash could make that second unit look good, they are a collection of scrubs.

    And 3rd) DJ himself, he needs to be more agressive, he needs to be the same guy that he was when he played with the Bobcats, he needs stop creating for the other scrubs and just worry about scoring.

  39. #25

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Blinded by Gold Dust

    Just some random thoughts on the bench play after 20 games. (1) Tyler can not buy a jump shot from anhywhere on the floor, so we use him as a relay point at the 3 point line. Why would you defend him.? His defense and hustle has kept him in the rotation, but playing outside has taken away his rebounding. Change his game or bench/trade him.(2) DJA has to play uptempo, open floor offense to get a shot and his 3 point shot has deserted him. Bench time for Augustin. Move Young or Green to the 1st unit and give Lance the 2nd unit PG spot. Otherwise, play BHans even Pendgraf at the point, they couldn't be much worse. (3) Sam Young parks at the 3 point line in the corner and does nothing unless you give him the ball for that shot. (4) GGreen is determined to be seen as more than a "dunker" and will therefore, not go near the paint for any reason. He only feels a 3 point shot is a good shot. Green should be able to post on any 2 guard in the league not named Paul George. (5) IM has been a pleasant susprise to me even with his foul magnet and butter hands. He plays hard, rebounds decently and has some pretty good offensive chops when he catches the ball.David West will demand 20 million to stay here next year and that might be too little. By March, he'll be lucky to get out of bed after a game.

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